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  1. #141
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Lets be honest the revolution was about taxes. When he defeated the english he was both popular and had great influence and could have easily become a king if he wanted.
    Again, based on what?

    Washington's lack of desire for power or control?
    The antipathy towards kingships that fueled the Revolution?
    And why would this even matter? It's not like "being a king" is an automatic negative mark.


  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Please quote where I've said that. Or how it's even remotely relevant.



    They're not. They're the ones who have been fighting against civil rights tooth and nail since the get-go.



    Please connect these dots for me, specifically in relation to the response to the push for civil rights from both liberals and conservatives in the US over the past half-century.

    Who was it that fought against desegregation, again? Who was it that has aggressively passed anti-sodomy laws and continues to try to prevent same-sex couples from adopting orphans, again?

    Please do share with the class.
    Not you thats for certain. You are sitting on the coattails of people far better than you ever will be. and then you drag their whole legacy into the dirt by saying this


    Because yeah, western humanism isn't being "dragged through the mud" now, we're just taking the lipstick off the extremely muddy pig and aren't pretending that it's anything other than a pig covered in mud anymore. It's not Wilbur, despite generations of trying to convince people that it's a very special pig.


    You call their achievements a dirty pig to feel virtuous. The last few decades the left in America has managed to accomplish shit. Its just lazy and ineffective

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Lets be honest the revolution was about taxes. When he defeated the english he was both popular and had great influence and could have easily become a king if he wanted.
    Saying the Revolution was about taxes is a massive oversimplification.

    Anyway, the whole "King Washington" nonsense is a bit of a pop culture tidbit that's wildly out of context and completely misunderstood.

    There was no significant popular push towards establishing an American monarchy lead by Washington or anyone else.

    The idea of making Washington king came in the context of an ongoing dispute between the Continental Army and Congress. Congress owed money to the troops but kept refusing to pay them, so some proposals were floated by certain officers and promptly shot down by Washington to organize a coup against Congress and make Washington king...as the officers expected Washington to be more sympathetic towards their cause and get them paid.

    There's more to this story, but that the jist of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Because yeah, western humanism isn't being "dragged through the mud" now, we're just taking the lipstick off the extremely muddy pig and aren't pretending that it's anything other than a pig covered in mud anymore. It's not Wilbur, despite generations of trying to convince people that it's a very special pig.[/I]

    You call their achievements a dirty pig to feel virtuous. The last few decades the left in America has managed to accomplish shit. Its just lazy and ineffective
    Awful lot of words coming from someone who can't even answer the question "What did the Founding Fathers bring to the table worth celebrating?" and who keeps lying and hand-waving when evidence to the contrary keeps proving you wrong.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    You call their achievements a dirty pig to feel virtuous.
    Or, because as Al Franken said, I can love my mother while admitting that she has flaws and isn't perfect. Stop proving Al Franken right.

  6. #146
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Not you thats for certain. You are sitting on the coattails of people far better than you ever will be. and then you drag their whole legacy into the dirt by saying this


    Because yeah, western humanism isn't being "dragged through the mud" now, we're just taking the lipstick off the extremely muddy pig and aren't pretending that it's anything other than a pig covered in mud anymore. It's not Wilbur, despite generations of trying to convince people that it's a very special pig.


    You call their achievements a dirty pig to feel virtuous. The last few decades the left in America has managed to accomplish shit. Its just lazy and ineffective
    What "achievements"?

    I keep asking you to even describe one, and thus far, you've just ignored it.

    The repeated refusal is starting to feel a lot like tacit admission that they produced nothing particularly meaningful.


  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    sip
    The issue isn't with Humanism. Nobody is saying that.

    The issue is with the application.

    Social darwinism, racism, colonialism, mercantilism, capitalism, communism etc are as much products of humanism as is liberal democracy, human rights, scientific empiricism, feminism etc.

    The core values of Humanism are sound, our application throughout the past few hundred years on the other hand has been anything but.

    We came a long way from "All men are equal" meaning "all men, who own property or have a personal wealth above a certain amount and happen to be from a few specific European ethnic groups" to "all human beings".

    But for us to get from point A to point B it took a few hundred years of philosophical analysis, scientific, political, economic and cultural reform, a lot of bloodshed, a couple of world wars, a few colonial empires, a few revolutions etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  8. #148
    Pit Lord D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I find it insanely odd this is the direction they decided to embrace. I think just about any society can look into its past and find horrors and injustices. The USA is absolutely no different. Those that say they are probably are a bit wacked. But to excuse them away and embrace them just seems looney. Like why would you excuse slavery away into anything other than the shitty thing it was.
    you know the answer, you just don't want to believe it. And I don't fault you for that optimism in humanity.
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    But for us to get from point A to point B it took a few hundred years of philosophical analysis, scientific, political, economic and cultural reform, a lot of bloodshed, a couple of world wars, a few colonial empires, a few revolutions etc.
    I mean, we had to fight a literal civil war over this shit and the losers are still salty about losing that 150 years later.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Or, because as Al Franken said, I can love my mother while admitting that she has flaws and isn't perfect. Stop proving Al Franken right.
    I would never call my mother a dirty pig Edge.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    The issue isn't with Humanism. Nobody is saying that.

    The issue is with the application.

    Social darwinism, racism, colonialism, mercantilism, capitalism, communism etc are as much products of humanism as is liberal democracy, human rights, scientific empiricism, feminism etc.

    The core values of Humanism are sound, our application throughout the past few hundred years on the other hand has been anything but.

    We came a long way from "All men are equal" meaning "all men, who own property or have a personal wealth above a certain amount and happen to be from a few specific European ethnic groups" to "all human beings".

    But for us to get from point A to point B it took a few hundred years of philosophical analysis, scientific, political, economic and cultural reform, a lot of bloodshed, a couple of world wars, a few colonial empires, a few revolutions etc.
    I fully agree.

  11. #151
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    I would never call my mother a dirty pig Edge.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I fully agree.
    Not understanding what you are trying to say. Edge isn't calling his mother a dirty pig. He just admits he can see faults in her and still love her. Is this you admitting you think your mother is a dirty pig but wouldn't say it to her face or something?
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I mean, we had to fight a literal civil war over this shit and the losers are still salty about losing that 150 years later.
    And im salty that you do not properly honour the men of the union.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    I would never call my mother a dirty pig Edge.
    Do we need a tutorial on analogies or something?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    And im salty that you do not properly honour the men of the union.
    I do, actually. By mocking those waving a flag (not even the flag) of the losing side and claiming "muh heritage" about something that lasted for less than than most daytime soap operas.

    And by remembering why that war was started by the south, and what they were fighting for (preservation of slavery) despite the rampant attempts at historical revisionism.
    Last edited by Edge-; 2021-07-13 at 01:18 AM.

  14. #154
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    And im salty that you do not properly honour the men of the union.
    Honor them for what?

    Armed revolution and terrorism?

    Building the greatest slave state in the world?

    Building one of the least-stable democracies in the world?

    Again, you have not been able to produce any one thing for which they should be "honored".


  15. #155
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    This is closed. The topic encourages discussion that isn't allowed here.
    Moderator of the General Off-Topic, Politics, Lore, and RP Forums
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