9.1: was doubling down on the Maw a good idea?

[SNES-1990]

I feel like they were so far in development that they couldn't backpeddle out of more Maw content following player backlash to the Maw since launch.

Either that or they knew the Maw was disliked and forged ahead anyways - either scenario wouldn't surprise me. How are you finding assaults etc in 9.1?

[Soon-TM]

From a story PoV: yes.

From a gameplay PoV: not at all.

[muto]

I surprisingly didn’t mind the Maw prior to patch 9.1. What pissed me off in 9.1 is they made all that stygia farming people did for conduits moot as you now get 226 conduits from dungeons and raids, and upgraded legendary’s now have a free socket. They also made running Twisting Corridors pointless as you can now freely mount in the Maw. Also the new Korthia zone looks like it was made in a week; super small.

I probably wouldn’t have had stygia farming either, but trying to fix your mistake after people dedicated a ton of time to it pisses those people off, while lazy people get rewarded.

[Doombringer]

Definitely they are, were, too far ahead in development of a lot of things to scrap them and start fresh.

Unfortunately this continues to happen, patch to patch, expac to expac. You can bet the old adage fits ... "we're not making the same old mistakes!" "no, you're making all new ones."

The feature set for the next expansion is already established and I'm sure a lot of build time has gone into it. And if it builds off their design doc they've been using since Legion, it'll probably not be any better than Shadowlands. They really need to toss out the book and approach the game with fresh eyes. MAYBE WoW Classic showed them how to do that.

[Jinpachi]

If they'd have simply allowed mounts from the start it wouldn't have been an issue, and people would have enjoyed the maw. Not allowing them only added insult to injury.

[Kantoro]

TBC > Retail. I logged in to try the new stuff and lasted a whole 13 minutes.

Then went back to TBC,

[Greyvax]

well, its certainly a helluva lot more bearable now that we can use mounts.

the no mount thing during 9.0 & 9.0.5 was a failed experiment I hope they never attempt again.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Not really anything up for question here. The maw is where the Jailer lives, and we are assaulting his home.
There wasn't any other options, so the only question was how did you receive Korthia itself.

[muto]

Not really anything up for question here. The maw is where the Jailer lives, and we are assaulting his home.
There wasn't any other options, so the only question was how did you receive Korthia itself.

They could have made it more enjoyable. I get why they were trying to do by making it feel awful (it’s hell), however unfortunately in video games that doesn’t work, because just go play something else. Most people don’t play games to not have fun.

[Devilyaki]

TBC > Retail. I logged in to try the new stuff and lasted a whole 13 minutes.

Then went back to TBC,

What in TBC is any better?

[shadowmatrix]

They could have made it more enjoyable. I get why they were trying to do by making it feel awful (it’s hell), however unfortunately in video games that doesn’t work, because just go play something else. Most people don’t play games to not have fun.

I just treated the Maw like a cave and went on about my quests, players get too focused on trivial things at times. As for Korthia, I like it so far. Just waiting to see how the other parts of the story play out.

[Raggun]

What in TBC is any better?

Sense of Community
Challenging Dungeons
Great Raids
Arena PvP is enjoyable
Getting loot feels good knowing there's no 'better' version of it at higher Mythic+
Profession Crafting is actually useful
Beautiful zones, good quest writing

Shadowlands has great zones but I always feel like it's so claustrophobic at times, so much clutter. More isn't always better.
I loved Bastion, open fields made it feel sort of angelic but the furrythemed zone is boring and cluttered.

Comparing the stories wouldn't make sense, somewhere Blizzard decided that the story needed to progress without player agency. You're not important, you're just a sidequest while Sylvannas and the Jailer take center stage. In TBC, you're also a no named player but you're one of the champions who imprisons Illidan and it makes you feel like you achieved that with a slow build up.

[GreenJesus]

I surprisingly didn’t mind the Maw prior to patch 9.1. What pissed me off in 9.1 is they made all that stygia farming people did for conduits moot as you now get 226 conduits from dungeons and raids, and upgraded legendary’s now have a free socket. They also made running Twisting Corridors pointless as you can now freely mount in the Maw. Also the new Korthia zone looks like it was made in a week; super small.

I probably wouldn’t have had stygia farming either, but trying to fix your mistake after people dedicated a ton of time to it pisses those people off, while lazy people get rewarded.

Lol so glad i never bothered farming the maw. I got to revered and just stopped.. Blizzard literally just made everything baseline in 9.1 like I expected.

[arkanon]

I cant think of anything off the top of my head that was mixed / negative reception where Blizzard doubled down and improved them. Part of the issue as I see it, is Blizzard is SO BIG and plan so far ahead, they are not particularly reactive. They are like a freight train on a fixed track, when something like a small indie company can react and make changes very swiftly, without all the red tape and bullshit that comes with such big companies and teams.

Obviously, no small indie company is going to run a game like wow, so i'm not trying to compare in that way, i'm just saying why i think they find themselves in these situations so frequently.

- - - Updated - - -

Lol so glad i never bothered farming the maw. I got to revered and just stopped.. Blizzard literally just made everything baseline in 9.1 like I expected.

This is one way I see Blizzard respond to things that have mixed / negative reception - wait for patch X.Y and just unlock everything, catch everyone up, and "reset" it to encourage people to try it again. Unfortunately, if the core issues players took exception to have not changed, their reaction wont either. "here, we know you dont like X, but we have caught you up completely with everyone who actually invested in it, so you can unlock everything, and maybe NOW you will like it!"...........

[DeltrusDisc]

From a story PoV: yes.

From a gameplay PoV: not at all.

Explain yourself.

[Razion]

In terms of story it made sense that The Maw would be so hopeless and dreary and relatively difficult compared to the rest of the open SL world, while being this terrible place you're basically forced out of or killed in if you spent so long there.

But for gameplay feel... The Maw was, is, just awful. Things like not being able to mount, or fly even, being insta-killed or locked down, the place just LOOKING depressing as all hell, losing things you've earned when you die here and then having to go through the chore of getting it back... there's a lot that goes into the experience feeling every bit as terrible as it's intended to. Intending a terrible experience doesn't make it suddenly genius, or good, it just makes it feel bad - surprising no one. What that results in is people not wanting to spend any time there playing the content. So it's no surprise that The Maw can feel like a bad idea to invest resources in... it's just a bad place to be by design. To fix it it basically has to be entirely redone, which at that point begs the question, "why not anywhere else, then?"

The idea and fantasy of an immersively dreading experience may have been appealing to someone. But someone should have spoken up and said, "but, yo, won't that just not be fun, then?" Ambition and dreams are easy to cloud what should be obvious. "Is this fun?" should be of paramount importance. This is at the end of the day entertainment, and if the experience isn't entertaining somehow then it failed its major function.

[Cosmic Janitor]

well, its certainly a helluva lot more bearable now that we can use mounts.

the no mount thing during 9.0 & 9.0.5 was a failed experiment I hope they never attempt again.

Don't forget the hard cap on your daily activity there. One would think they've learned that people like to play the game on their own terms, after all they've added weekly limits ages ago. The Maw was antithesis to that.

They also added stuff like the mounts way too late. The drop chance of the event mount was absyymal (still don't have it), korridors came way too late same for smithed version. Not to mention that it didn't even make sense lore wise. You could summon your pets there as well and druids could shape shift, but my undead/summoned demon mount was scared of the maw for some reason.

[Biomega]

The Maw sucks, Korthia sucks, Torghast sucks.

Nobody likes these areas, or the associated systems.

[Soon-TM]

Explain yourself.

Basically what @Razion put so eloquently.

[Darkeon]

Probably better than to abandon systems like in BFA.