9.1: was doubling down on the Maw a good idea?

[Nyel]

At least when people say, "why can't they make a zone that FEELS dangerous?" We'll have The Maw to point to to say, "it was done, didn't work."

Because it really isn't dangerous. It's annoying and tedious and the traversal is horrible. Dangerous doesn't mean inconventient and uncomfortable, because that's what I really get from the Maw.

[Jessicka]

I really think the Maw is one of those things where it'll only be viewed positively in hindsight. Nobody wants to go to the Maw and do stuff (prior to all the non-mounting, etc. annoyances) but I think in several expansions it will be looked back on as "oh it was different and the theme was communicated well by how punishing it was". Currently? No thanks I'd rather go elsewhere.

Yeah, basically no one other than me is saying Vashjir was good.

[xpsync]

As i'm starting to acclimate that the Mah is a playable zone, i'm becoming ok with it. Stygia loss is the last pita, i'm not bothered with corpse runs, that's ok, what i'm not ok with is literally unable to get back to my corpse, as in under the world, hanging off a distant platform i was flung too, that's bs so just get rid of it like Korthia.

It is kind of cool though, in the that the mah was holding us back, hard to penetrate, even forced back into the shadowlands, and now we've penetrated the mah and progressing the story forward in this way by now taking action with assaults.

Still not my favorite zone overall, but big picture, F'ing LEGENDARY

Awesome Blizz, Awesome!

[Jessicka]

As i'm starting to acclimate that the Mah is a playable zone, i'm becoming ok with it. Stygia loss is the last pita, i'm not bothered with corpse runs, that's ok, what i'm not ok with is literally unable to get back to my corpse, as in under the world, hanging off a distant platform i was flung too, that's bs so just get rid of it like Korthia.

It is kind of cool though, in the that the mah was holding us back, hard to penetrate, even forced back into the shadowlands, and now we've penetrated the mah and progressing the story forward in this way by now taking action with assaults.

Still not my favorite zone overall, but big picture, F'ing LEGENDARY

Awesome Blizz, Awesome!

It's supposed to be the absolute bottom layer of Hell, I don't understand the concept, need, or desire to clean it out. The whole thing makes absolutely no fucking sense. Where the fuck are all those awful souls even going?

[Soon-TM]

At least when people say, "why can't they make a zone that FEELS dangerous?" We'll have The Maw to point to to say, "it was done, didn't work."

But pre 9.1 Maw never felt dangerous. Just tedious.

[xpsync]

It's supposed to be the absolute bottom layer of Hell, I don't understand the concept, need, or desire to clean it out. The whole thing makes absolutely no fucking sense. Where the fuck are all those awful souls even going?

Hahaha omg lmao, thanks! that made me laugh so hard, becasue you're right, so true what a great point. There is no point lmao!!! It's Hell lol

I guess in my head it's like breaking down the outer defenses bringing us ever closer to the Jailer.

[Elestia]

I probably wouldn’t have had stygia farming either, but trying to fix your mistake after people dedicated a ton of time to it pisses those people off, while lazy people get rewarded.

They do this every expansion... Surely you know this.

Also, you already knew you would lose the gems when pieces get replaced. You already knew conduits would get upgraded.

Being try hard in the first raid tier of an expansion is something I never recommend unless:
1. You're progging for CE - given your guild needs every tiny drop of dps, usually not even needed / shouldn't be needed unless everyone is bad.
2. You're trying to make gold - in which case PvE questing time is a waste and doesn't apply.

[xpsync]

They do this every expansion... Surely you know this.

Also, you already knew you would lose the gems when pieces get replaced. You already knew conduits would get upgraded.

Being try hard in the first raid tier of an expansion is something I never recommend unless:
1. You're progging for CE - given your guild needs every tiny drop of dps, usually not even needed / shouldn't be needed unless everyone is bad.
2. You're trying to make gold - in which case PvE questing time is a waste and doesn't apply.

This is the first full expansion i'll be playing through, wrath mostly but was just playing with my kids and really it was just having fun questing exploring together, oh right and chasing squirrel's, rabbits and other furry animals lol.

I am completely aware of not knocking yourself out on the zero.

I came back to wow bfa, then hit classic and remember coming back end of bfa and getting such great WQ rewards. The guild i was in at that time were complaining so much when they saw what players were getting for WQ after they killed themselves in dung's and raids, which didn't really matter to me as i was soloing.

Now though, i got into raiding during CN (met the right peeps 4 months in), got pretty good, and we downed Daddy D Heroic in a 2-2-6.

That team fell apart as 4 players are all about BCC, the remaining 6 of us have been working on a few options. No matter my path i'll no doubt get a ride with my sons for at least the aotc, but i'd rather work for it with my team, we'll figure something out, and yes it is the little rug rats i played with during wrath. One came back to the game in BFA (well every expac we did, but a month was usually it) and then the other son returned in SL and now they are CE players, long way from chasing rabbits lmao. Me though, aotc is my limit.

I guess i should get to my question, since zero was so long, how long do we normally get between .0, .1, .2, .3 if we want to get aotc and or CE. Also how many raids usually come with an expac on average, will there be another 10 boss raid?

[Schizoide]

I liked Vashj'ir but I'm certainly in the minority. Despise the Maw.

Also first timegate in WoW was gates of AQ.

[Osmeric]

It's supposed to be the absolute bottom layer of Hell, I don't understand the concept, need, or desire to clean it out. The whole thing makes absolutely no fucking sense. Where the fuck are all those awful souls even going?

Penny Arcade addressed an issue much like this.

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/03/20

[Mascotte]

Almost no one did Sunwell, so it didn't matter.

Even less people did Naxx40 back in the day yet somehow that became the pinnacle of vanilla raiding.
How does that logic work exactly?

[Osmeric]

Even less people did Naxx40 back in the day yet somehow that became the pinnacle of vanilla raiding.
How does that logic work exactly?

Naxx 40 was irrelevant to almost everyone. I don't understand how you might think those who didn't get to see it loved it.

[Swnem]

I hate the assaults. I say this as someone who really liked the Legion and BfA ones.
These ones have convoluted quests and are bugged to hell. They take way too long to complete in comparison as well.

I guess they applied the same principle they did to SL WQ's where longer is better (not). And so it's the same level of crappy.
Run on that "engagement" hamster wheel.

[Lightforged]

Mounting in the Maw should have been the reward for capping your renown in 9.0/.5. It would have just been insufferable and hellish - which is what Blizzard wanted - but there would have been a light at the end of the tunnel.

having said that, I think the Maw feels much less threatening now that you can mount up. It feels like a normal zone... Which doesn't sit well with me, honestly.

So it is a win for the players as it makes the Maw more bearable but it is a flavor fail because it makes the Maw feel vastly more generic.

I firmly believe, had 9.1 come out on time, it would have been hailed as a big win for Blizzard. Sadly, the amount of content is far, far too shallow to make up for the long content draught.

[Kagthul]

Not true. There have been patches where the previous tier set carried over into the next patch. I remember using 2+4 piece tier for Warlock in Legion. 2 piece Nighthold (10% UA), and 4 piece Tomb (chance to give Haste on spent Shards). Also Arcano Crystal was bis all of Legion, same with Whispers in the Dark until they nerfed it.

And those are “new” expansions. In older expansions where there werent 30+ iLevels in a single Tier, and it was very common for gear from a previous tier to be better for particular specs in each class. Sometimes for two+ tiers, or even an entire expansion.

[FelPlague]

Sense of Community
Challenging Dungeons
Great Raids
Arena PvP is enjoyable
Getting loot feels good knowing there's no 'better' version of it at higher Mythic+
Profession Crafting is actually useful
Beautiful zones, good quest writing

Shadowlands has great zones but I always feel like it's so claustrophobic at times, so much clutter. More isn't always better.
I loved Bastion, open fields made it feel sort of angelic but the furrythemed zone is boring and cluttered.

Comparing the stories wouldn't make sense, somewhere Blizzard decided that the story needed to progress without player agency. You're not important, you're just a sidequest while Sylvannas and the Jailer take center stage. In TBC, you're also a no named player but you're one of the champions who imprisons Illidan and it makes you feel like you achieved that with a slow build up.

1> both games have community...
2> LOLOOLOLOL challenging dungeons? my dude, realy you are gunna say dungeons in tbc are challenging but not in retail? you prob havent done anything over a M+5. There is no challenge in heroic dungeons for TBC, the only thing it is is time consuming.
Cause i hate to break it to you but something taking a long time does not make it difficult, having actual challenge through mechanics, tuning, etc is what builds difficulty, while time is a part, you cannot rely ONLY on time, something taking 10 hours of just pressing 1 button does not make it hard, it makes it time consuming. that would be like saying leveling mining is hard... no it aint...
3> "great raids" uh huh...
4> No it aint. getting globaled by a rogue or 1 shot by a lock is not really fun.
5> ok? but there is higher difficulty versions of loot in classic so.
6> profession crafting literally makes legendaries in shadowlands
7> Beutiful zones? you mean 1 zone nagrand
7.5> "Good writing" we are killing illidan cause... he spooky oooooooo!
8> ardenwald is a "furry themed zone" i didnt know nature itself was considered furry... Also cluttered? its mostly feilds aswell, only broken up by trees, if you think a tree here and there is clutter, man you must live in some weird ass place.
9> we are extremly important, what are you talking about? and in TBC you are not a no named player, you are literally named the one of the champions of azeroth and are sent to outland to deal with the demons by the argent dawn.

[arkanon]

7> Beutiful zones? you mean 1 zone nagrand

I think Nagrand is extremely boring, visually. I love Zangermarsh though, I think it is pretty awesome, and I really like netherstorm as well, mostly for atmosphere and setting, but visually its great when combined with said atmosphere.

[Athorha]

Next patch when we get our angel wing mount
and ascend the maw it will all have been worth it

[uopayroll]

If they'd have simply allowed mounts from the start it wouldn't have been an issue, and people would have enjoyed the maw. Not allowing them only added insult to injury.

The insult was druids and worgen forms essentially being a free mount while everyone else mainly had to walk

[arkanon]

Doubling down on something that didn't exactly receive a positive reception is never a good idea, UNLESS you make some pretty dramatic changes to it. They did not do this.