Football Season 2021-2022

[RobertoCarlos]

I’m inclined to agree with Valkyrst on this. He does score goals, but he has just taken over where other goals were coming from.

It’s obvious we’re playing differently, and not necessarily to the benefit of others when Fred is getting chances and on the scoresheet.

Goals were never really an issue for United until Rashford’s injury. Even then, the difficulty became outscoring opponents so we’d end up with score draws instead.

You just said it yourself "until" rashfords injury. If Ronaldo had gone to city the entire narrative would be different because utd could quite easily be in the position of only having martial and greenwood upfront and cavani whos also had injury issues and looks to be off to barcelona in January. Martials form has dropped off a cliff, greenwood as roy keane would say is "still young and learning his trade" and as talented as he is cant be relied on to carry a season because the dude is tiny physically because of his age.

Utd are not over stocked in strikers its quite easy to utilize a player like that without playing them every week in and out. But he does because the alternatives are not good enough.

One could argue its effect Bruno's performances because his numbers have dropped maybe there is something in that.

But come on, fred would still be playing regardless if it was van nistelrooy in his prime because his off the ball work grants him a starting position.

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Also notice how theres no where near the level of criticism for players like Jack Grealish and Lukaku. Players who cost near 100m or in Grealish's case did cost 100m.

But yeah Ronaldo scoring goals = bad.

[Nerph-]

That sentiment is automatically invalidated when people pretty regularly say that how, without a shadow of a doubt, Ronaldo and Messi are the two most important footballers not just of their generation, but possibly of the sport. However, that does not give them immunity to criticism. And yet again, your point is just 'Ronaldo scores goals'. His 'key' goals have come in the Champions League. Against some really below average opposition.

Yes, they're still goals, but his performances are nowhere near the level that his fans are claiming they're at. And that's it. That is the only point. He's not as good as people claim he is. At this current juncture, there are far better players in the world. Who both score goals and contribute to their respective teams in other ways. United have essentially sacrificed whatever progress they made under Solskjaer, ignored the need for a midfielder and a forward that would fit Bruno/Rashford/Sancho etc and gone with a 37 year old who hangs around in the penalty box. Awesome. Keep at it.

I don't think anyone here is claiming he's amazing though. The dude is 36 and like I said, past his prime. However he has come in when Rashford was out injured and scored the goals needed to keep United in the CL. Would someone else have scored those goals? Maybe. Will we ever know? Nope.

This is basically why I agree with what Bobby C is saying.

[Naoto]

I’m inclined to agree with Valkyrst on this. He does score goals, but he has just taken over where other goals were coming from.

It’s obvious we’re playing differently, and not necessarily to the benefit of others when Fred is getting chances and on the scoresheet.

Goals were never really an issue for United until Rashford’s injury. Even then, the difficulty became outscoring opponents so we’d end up with score draws instead.

Eh? who has he taken over from, Greenwood who scored 7 last season? Rashford who scored 11? Cavani who scored 10? or Bruno who scored 18 but let's face it, that was never going to be a consistent thing was it. Goals never an issue until Rashfords injury, the guy literally took 6 games to score 2 goals then gets injured 9 games into the season, Bruno carried UTD last season and now Ronaldo is carrying them this yet people complain? the guy is a 36 year old striker, brought in to score goals yet people complain he doesn't do more for the team. Guy scored 6 in 5 CL games pretty much carrying them into the knockout stages and people say it was against average teams. Hilarious.

The fact people criticize Ronaldo, the simple fact the guy is 36 and nowhere near as good as he was yet is still miles better than anyone else at UTD should be a worry for the club yet people claim he's holding them back, yes because Greenwood and Rashford can easily score the same goals Ronaldo can, right?

Oh he scored against average teams in the CL, Greenwood with 1 goal in 9 EL games against worse teams than Ronaldo or what about Rashford? 2 goals in 7 also against worse teams. So please tell me why Ronaldo is so bad for UTD and who would you take over from him.

[Jessicka]

And yet we're not creating anything like as many chances, and not even close to on course to scoring the 73 (second highest in the league) goals we scored last season.

You can't pretend that having the second highest scoring tally, which was for a long time the highest, and say goals were a problem last season. Conceding was, and now conceding is even worse but without the goals to make up for it.

[Zantera]

City is such a well oiled machine though that they could probably afford a Ronaldo-type who does the bare minimum outside the box because you know you'll get goals. Then again, I gotta give credit to City because it feels like their team is the result of a 'the collective comes first' mindset and Ronaldo - for good and bad is that diva-type player you don't really get at City. Whenever a player at City starts to think they deserve more, like Sterling atm, it feels clear from the club that they are open to selling that player because they know they can replace him with someone equally as good who will do it for the team and not for themselves.

We've really struggled to have an identity under Ole. It was great at first after Mourinho's very strict tactical instructions to unleash the players a bit but it became quite clear that 'Vibes FC' might be good for a run of games but ultimately over a season you're not gonna win a title without proper tactics. I think Ronaldo in a vacuum has performed good for us, however I don't buy "We would be worse off without him" because I agree that others would have picked up those goals. I think ultimately what still lets us down is the defense and the central midfield. A front trio of Rashford-Greenwood-Sancho is in my opinion good enough with a good manager. We haven't had that and you could still question whether Ralf is that or not - though I would argue he's at least knowledgeable about the game and tactics so at the very least he can probably give them something to work with.

[Tommy T]

Like Werner? ;p

I think I agree wiith Bobby C on this tbh, to me it comes over as whenever someone says anything positive about Ronaldo (or Messi), they're instantly a fanboi. Fact is Ronaldo isn't in his prime anymore but he does still score goals, and important ones at that.

Ronaldo has 7 PL goals this season, playing as a striker who's sole job is to score goals. He's a poacher.
If Werner was given that freedom, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest he would have a similar amount of goals

Play Greenwood up top and have Sancho on the wing and I think you would be higher up in the table.

I rarely get involved in fan boy debates, but to balance it out, I think the exact same with PSG.
Messi hasn't made them a better team.

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Ever since Sancho scored against Chelsea they've been unable to keep a clean sheet.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59675235

This might be the best change to football in years. People like Raiola are an absolute leech on the game, and it's about time they were dealt with.

You mean, ever since Man Utd put their worst performance at Stamford Bridge since I can remember with Ronaldo up top, they needed a Jorginho mistake to score?

[Nerph-]

Ronaldo has 7 PL goals this season, playing as a striker who's sole job is to score goals. He's a poacher.
If Werner was given that freedom, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest he would have a similar amount of goals

Play Greenwood up top and have Sancho on the wing and I think you would be higher up in the table.

I rarely get involved in fan boy debates, but to balance it out, I think the exact same with PSG.
Messi hasn't made them a better team.

Oh I agree, I was just being a knobend (with the Werner comment). I wouldn't say United are a better team overall with Ronaldo, just that he came at the right time while Rashford was out and scored some crucial goals. I have little doubt that any other striker given that freedom would have not scored the same goals.

I'm just jealous of other teams and their ability to play as a team

[DingDongKing]

@Bobby B is right. Bobby C is wrong and is just upset that Ronaldo isn’t being worshipped for tapping in goals. United are no better with Ronaldo. He might be poaching goals, but the entire team is now purely servicing him. Had they brought in a proper midfielder to work in the engine room, they’d have been able to achieve something more balanced. But heyho. Ronaldo goals = best.

[Nerph-]

Don't think Bobby C is upset that Ronaldo isn't being worshipped, no one is wanting Ronaldo to be worshipped. To my understanding he's just saying that Ronaldo was brought in at the right time (due to Rashford's injury) and not having "better" options at said time.

[RobertoCarlos]

Don't think Bobby C is upset that Ronaldo isn't being worshipped, no one is wanting Ronaldo to be worshipped. To my understanding he's just saying that Ronaldo was brought in at the right time (due to Rashford's injury) and not having "better" options at said time.

Yeah and just the narrative would be completely different if it wasnt Ronaldo and was some 20 year old kid out of South America with his goal return and bailing us out in the champions league he would already have cult status but its Ronaldo so its "hes 36 and is making the team concede more goals".

And people saying that we would have signed another mid fielder if not for him is completely out of no where. There is nothing to suggest Glazers would have splashed out on a defender, a winger, a striker AND a world class mid fielder.

Thats living in dreamland.

[DingDongKing]

Yeah and just the narrative would be completely different if it wasnt Ronaldo and was some 20 year old kid out of South America with his goal return and bailing us out in the champions league he would already have cult status but its Ronaldo so its "hes 36 and is making the team concede more goals".

And people saying that we would have signed another mid fielder if not for him is completely out of no where. There is nothing to suggest Glazers would have splashed out on a defender, a winger, a striker AND a world class mid fielder.

Thats living in dreamland.

@nerph, you were saying you don’t think Bobby C is upset that Ronaldo isn’t being worshipped? Please see the post above.

[Nerph-]

/shrug, to me he's just saying people would be praising a "20 year old kid out of South America" if he'd scored as many goals as Ronaldo and bailed United out in the CL, instead of the negativity that Ronaldo is holding United back.

I really don't see it as being upset that people aren't worshipping him, but might just be me.

[DingDongKing]

/shrug, to me he's just saying people would be praising a "20 year old kid out of South America" if he'd scored as many goals as Ronaldo and bailed United out in the CL, instead of the negativity that Ronaldo is holding United back.

I really don't see it as being upset that people aren't worshipping him, but might just be me.

Sebastian Haller has 10 goals in the Champions League this year, but you don’t see the Ronaldo fanboys going gaga over his contribution. Because he’s not Cristiano Ronaldo.

The idea of ‘well if that guy was this guy then this would happen’ is a strawman argument. Ronaldo is a good goal scorer. That’s not really the debate. The debate is ‘does his play style benefit United’s future?’ And the only response is ‘but he’s scored goals against piss poor opposition’.

That’s what makes it problematic, given goals weren’t really an issue for United anyway. A more rounded team was. And Ronaldo doesn’t make the team anymore rounded but does the opposite.

Ronaldo fanboys can’t accept that Ronaldo in his current iteration offers little else than the poachy stuff, and it upsets them when that gets called out. Fact is he wouldn’t get into the Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Bayern or Madrid teams. Even Madrid have Benzema who is offering SO MUCH MORE than just ‘I stand in the box’. And he’s 34.

Domestically, Liverpool and City don’t even have out and out strikers and they have players posting similar goal numbers to Ronaldo if not better; Salah obviously being the standout example.

[Cren]

Sebastian Haller has 10 goals in the Champions League this year, but you don’t see the Ronaldo fanboys going gaga over his contribution. Because he’s not Cristiano Ronaldo.

The idea of ‘well if that guy was this guy then this would happen’ is a strawman argument. Ronaldo is a good goal scorer. That’s not really the debate. The debate is ‘does his play style benefit United’s future?’ And the only response is ‘but he’s scored goals against piss poor opposition’.

That’s what makes it problematic, given goals weren’t really an issue for United anyway. A more rounded team was. And Ronaldo doesn’t make the team anymore rounded but does the opposite.

Ronaldo fanboys can’t accept that Ronaldo in his current iteration offers little else than the poachy stuff, and it upsets them when that gets called out. Fact is he wouldn’t get into the Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Bayern or Madrid teams. Even Madrid have Benzema who is offering SO MUCH MORE than just ‘I stand in the box’. And he’s 34.

Honestly. Bobby C usually are the one who derails these threads, but honestly you are the only one who seems to be upset in this whole conversation. You seem to take it personally that someone still think Ronaldo is a great football player and still have a lot to contribute to a team.

Just accept that some people don't think the same as you and accept that your opinion aint fact.

[Nerph-]

I just think you're taking this way too seriously. I don't get the vibe from RobertoCarlos' posts that he's a Ronaldo fanboy and worships him. He's merely arguing that Ronaldo has scored some crucial goals and if it were someone else, they'd be getting more praise for it.

We probably should just agree to disagree though and move on.

[Mazza]

Guess this is what happens when match of the day only ends up with one match for the day.

[Gorged]

We all know that the true GOAT is Billy Sharp anyway. so this debate is meaningless.

[Tommy T]

Daily reminder

[DingDongKing]

I just think you're taking this way too seriously. I don't get the vibe from RobertoCarlos' posts that he's a Ronaldo fanboy and worships him. He's merely arguing that Ronaldo has scored some crucial goals and if it were someone else, they'd be getting more praise for it.

We probably should just agree to disagree though and move on.

And that part is wrong. So his entire argument falls flat. Because there are players with less name recognition than Ronaldo posting similar numbers and NOT getting the same attention. If anything, the reason he's getting so much hype is because it's Ronaldo at United.

Honestly. Bobby C usually are the one who derails these threads, but honestly you are the only one who seems to be upset in this whole conversation. You seem to take it personally that someone still think Ronaldo is a great football player and still have a lot to contribute to a team.

Just accept that some people don't think the same as you and accept that your opinion aint fact.

Not once have I said he isn't one of the top two greatest footballers to have played the game. In fact, I've repeated that point often.

The difference is his only contribution to the team now is goals.

Ronaldo is a great football player and still have a lot to contribute to a team.

Not really. It's just the poacher goals. And there's plenty players who can do the same thing and not need £400k+ a week to do it.

But you're right, the thread has been derailed by Bobby C's fanboy protests, so let's move on.

[Northern Goblin]

Alright the ad-hominems have gotten far enough. This isn't even discussion or banter at this point, it's just really crap bait.

Move on.