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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    I don't think we will be seeing hundreds of paratroopers dropped from a copter drone anytime soon.

    Missile Arm Race in the Pacific in response to China. Taiwan is throwing a lot of money into manufacturing long-range cruise missiles. Something that they had resisted doing in the past in order not to provoke China. Apparently they had given up on that idea. Japan and South Korea are playing the game also.
    True, but it still is what I said - AA guns are far from dead tech. Ok, maybe pure AA guns, excluding CIWS, as almost everything else is multipurpose now.

    China can win that race alone against all three united. You have to understand economies of scale involved. Taiwan is by far the weakest one in that regard. This is without any fantasizing about SK and Japan finally getting over their issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    True, but it still is what I said - AA guns are far from dead tech. Ok, maybe pure AA guns, excluding CIWS, as almost everything else is multipurpose now.

    China can win that race alone against all three united. You have to understand economies of scale involved. Taiwan is by far the weakest one in that regard. This is without any fantasizing about SK and Japan finally getting over their issues.
    In a symmetrical war, in term of missiles, Taiwan is severely outgunned. However, I assume that Taiwanese generals are smart enough to recognize that and will be maximizing damage by fighting an asymmetrical war. They will be looking maximize damage with their limited number of land cruise missiles.

    Fortunately for them, China has over 24,000 high damage strike targets called dams. The number go up to 87,000 when you also count the medium and small dams. The gravity dams, such as Three Gorges dam, should be safe. Gravity dams are almost impossible to breach. However, the arch and buttress dams, especially those built during the 1950 through 1980 Soviet era, are highly vulnerable. The tallest Chinese dam (Jinping-I) is an arch dam. A Yunfeng rocket carrying a 500-kg payload will go through it like paper. Zhexi, a 104 m dam built in 1960, is a buttress dam. A single strike at one of the buttress, and the water pressure and weight of the dam will finish the job.

    The PLA recognize this also.

    Once again, how vulnerable are the Chinese to dam failure. The answer very.

    China Blasts Dam To Divert Massive Flooding That Has Killed At Least 25

    How much damage can Taiwan inflict on China. The answer more than China could damage Taiwan short of China nuking Taiwan.

    The largest dam failure that the world and most of China's current generation never heard of was Banqiao Dam. It was completed in 1952. On August 8, 1975, typhoon Nina caused the dam to collapse. Killing 85,000 instantly and 230,000 from flooding and the resulting epidemics and famine. Although the disaster is thought to be the deadliest of its kind anywhere in the world, it’s not common knowledge even inside China. When the dam broke, the Communist Party’s control of the media was near absolute. The government kept news of the disaster from being broadcast nationally, and there hadn’t been any international observers present.

    Imagine 100 to 200 dams the equivalent of Banqiao failing at the same time.

    Then there is the cascade effect. A minor irrigation dam failed in Inner Mongolia which lead to the failure of another downstream dam. Total damage 160 km of major highway completely undermined, 22 bridges destroyed and 21,000 hectares of farmland under water.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2021-07-22 at 03:54 AM.

  3. #183
    China posted a Video Threatening War because The Japanese Deputy Prime Minister Taro Aso said "Tokyo must defend Taiwan"





    Last edited by szechuan; 2021-07-22 at 04:18 AM.
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    snip
    cmon dont post falun gong cult shit here buddy

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    Now as a distraction from all military shitposting and Falun Gong bullshit, one of "CCP shills" confesses to being funded by CCP:

    So if China is the new land of freedom, they won't try to invade Taiwan ? Could we talk about Tibet btw ?

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    Why "talk about"? This is exactly why so many people are brainwashed. All they do is "talk about", spreading rumours, misinformation and blatant propaganda.

    How about actually showing it? I don't mean showing someone "talking about" it, I mean showing it by actually visiting regions.

    Few videos to educate you:



    I know, they are all from the same YouTuber, from the same visit. But some of them are footage from live steams, which counters any "it was edited and approved by CCP!!" bullshit.

    There are more videos from that visit if you want to educate yourself.

    You are welcome to find videos showing (not talking about, but actually showing!) the opposite.
    So the guy is based in China, lived there, even own a society there and you want me to believe he is doing all that from "good will" from inside a dictatorship ? Would be like asking someone from North Korea what he is thinking about his Supreme leader. Same credibility.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    Yep. More credibility than people who have never been there, but love to talk about something they have never seen. More credibility than politicians, more credibility than totally honest unbiased "human rights" organisations that are financed by US/UK governments and/or military companies.

    Show me the opposite. Show me people actually going there and showing how bad things are, not just talking about it. You can't. Because all you spread is misinformation and all you can do is "talk about it" or using someone else who "talks about it" as proof, like all other posters in this thread.

    When faced with facts, you don't counter facts, you attack person showing you how things really are, because you can't counter facts.
    That is the thing. No one can go there unsupervised by a government employee. If you go there, you will be supervised and they will tell what you can tell and what you can record on camera. As I said, we are dealing with a real dictatorship here.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    Yep. More credibility than people who have never been there, but love to talk about something they have never seen. More credibility than politicians, more credibility than totally honest unbiased "human rights" organisations that are financed by US/UK governments and/or military companies.

    Show me the opposite. Show me people actually going there and showing how bad things are, not just talking about it. You can't. Because all you spread is misinformation and all you can do is "talk about it" or using someone else who "talks about it" as proof, like all other posters in this thread.

    When faced with facts, you don't counter facts, you attack person showing you how things really are, because you can't counter facts.
    feel free to go and click through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide#Citations

    https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/?

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...g-muslims-size
    Last edited by jonnysensible; 2021-07-22 at 10:02 AM.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    If some articles, posted by someone who have never been there, say so, it must be true!

    Your barrier for proof is so low. Even BBC in their hit piece used phrase "well documented accusations" because that's nothing but accusations and accusations are not proof.

    Yet those people who actually visit area tell different story. But I know, they are CCP shills because they dare to question official western line and do more than just "talk about it".
    the fuck there's a million and one articles there, some of documents, some of journalists who went when the ccp decided to show them around the facilities before they realized that was a bad idea.

    The map is fucking immense, just look at it.

    You are basically the same as a holocaust denier at this point. You could watch videos of people who were put in the lower level camps and then fled, you can hear the testimony of their families smuggled out and you would deny it, because you have made your mind up and now have to bullshit conspiracies 'official western line' like some weird tanky fuck.

    Its disgusting.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    Of course there's a million and one articles there, everyone is jumping on anti-China train and has to write an article about it, rehashing same accusations over and over again. People click those news, so lots of clickbait misinformation and blatant lies are out there.

    It is so easy to claim something that is hard to verify, tabloids do that all the time. Remember photos of mobile WMDs in Iraq? Yeah... major news and politicians were pushing it too as proof. Only years later it they owned up that whole thing was bullshit. Doing actual journalism is hard and requires effort, often it is not done because news agencies know they'd have to backpedal on what they were pushing before or worse - lose government funding or tax breaks.

    It is good that you mentioned holocaust. Even holocaust had video evidence to support it. Video evidence from 80 years ago when technology we have today didn't exist. Now everyone has a phone, everyone has internet. There are over billion people in China, according to accusations millions of people are suffering, yet they all have phones, have internet, but can't record?

    Who is the idiot here, one that believes that millions of people are suffering, while having phones and internet, but are unable to present evidence? Or one that prefers to believe those who actually visit region and show videos stating opposite to what western media is claiming? Don't bother answering, it was a rhetorical question. It is hard to admit that you've been lied to, especially when person is severely brainwashed by western politicians and media.
    Don't know, you prefer to believe people that live inside a dictatorship known for redefining its own history to present a better side of it. A dictatorship that try to remove or reduce people freedom (Honk Kong) or threaten a country to invade it (Taiwan). You prefer to believe that kind of country, tells a lot about yourself.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post

    Who is the idiot here, one that believes that millions of people are suffering, while having phones and internet, but are unable to present evidence? Or one that prefers to believe those who actually visit region and show videos stating opposite to what western media is claiming? Don't bother answering, it was a rhetorical question.
    Nah i will answer and help you out here. Who is the idiot?
    The person who thinks that there is a global conspiracy against the ccp by every credible major news outlet, ngo, human rights group and the UN and gets their information from strange youtubers. Who dismisses any evidence put in front of them as lies. Yup its that guy.

    explain the camps https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/? that you can go and look at on google maps to me buddy? explain the documents leaked here https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...documents.html ?

    Ah its just those 'western lies'. I've got too many infraction points to say what i really think of you and people like you who deny genocides.

  12. #192
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    I know, they are all from the same YouTuber, from the same visit.
    You've heard of a Potemkin Village now get ready for a Potemkin Province!

    It was just as silly a strategy back in Imperial Russia so it's hilarious that y'all are falling it for it now. It's on par with the Australian government claiming Sydney had no homeless problem back in 2000 when they'd spent the previous year using police to kick homeless people *out* of the city center so tourists wouldn't see them. Or Brazil painting favelas bright colors so tourists don't get offended by what are actually slums.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    Yep. More credibility than people who have never been there, but love to talk about something they have never seen. More credibility than politicians, more credibility than totally honest unbiased "human rights" organisations that are financed by US/UK governments and/or military companies.
    Yeah because we've not seen this exact line used before.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    You need to learn to question things.
    We are. We're questioning the 'explanations' China is giving as to its activities in Xinjiang.

    Why aren't you? You know, besides your apparent belief that "I can't be a bigot because I have Muslim friends" is a legitimate argument when it comes to justifying systemic bigotry on the part of a state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    cmon dont post falun gong cult shit here buddy
    It's not from Falun Gong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    You need to learn to question things. If you don't question, you are a sheep.
    And CCP constantly attacks, censors and imprisons people criticizing the Communist Party and Ignores atrocities committed by their own party.
    Last edited by szechuan; 2021-07-22 at 06:37 PM.
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    Now as a distraction from all military shitposting and Falun Gong bullshit, one of "CCP shills" confesses to being funded by CCP:
    I think military shitposting is pretty educational. At least mine is. How many here are aware of historical China Henan province flooding, or the PLA having to blast one of its own dam to prevent catastrophic cascading dam failure, or the cascading dam failure in Inner Mongolia which all happened in July 2021. How many have heard about the Banqiao dam failure? In term of human life, no other dam failures came even close. They were not even in the same ballpark.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2021-07-22 at 08:25 PM.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    It's not from Falun Gong.
    'Inconvenient Truths-First Hand From China' ---> google ----> set up by Jennifer Zeng ----> google .---->'She became a practitioner of Falun Gong in 1997'

    please do basic due diligence before posting cult stuff.

    Just like that over guy needs to do basic due diligence about the garbage YouTube he posts.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    please do basic due diligence before posting cult stuff.
    The Video was uploaded on CCP Military twitter.




    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...aiwan-defense/



    https://www.wionews.com/world/we-wil...-taiwan-399391
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    You should really not read anything that shitposter claims. All he does is post one line insults. Few posts above he claimed I'm from west Taiwan. Reported those posts, moderators do exactly fuck all about it.

    But if you are that gullible and believe anything that confirms your point (in this case that what I'm posting is wrong, therefore anything negative about me is truth), you should think about this thread too. There are tons of accusations, misinformation and people talking about China, all are accepted by people like you without a shred of evidence because it confirms to your ideas.

    Be open minded and watch videos from people who actually live in China and report what is going on there, not from people who talk about China from abroad. Some of those videos do get suspiciously political, but if you look at why it is happening, you'll see that people tried to make non-political videos and were always attacked by brainwashed people for posting something contrary to what western politicians and media say, just like I've been continuously attacked in this thread, so they naturally get defensive, show more stuff to counter idiocy and it gets more political over time.

    Western people don't know what is actually going on in China and don't want to know. It is hard to accept that western countries are the most evil countries in the world right now, have caused suffering of millions, destroyed entire regions, looted and pillaged on behalf of corporations in name of freedom/democracy and are held unaccountable, so simple minded people need to make up an enemy to excuse atrocities committed by the west. China is surpassing US economically, challenges world order, so it is an easy target for misinformation. Accepting lies is easy, accepting truth is hard when it goes against what you have been taught.
    Maybe you can enlighten us on what the China is trying to accomplish with Hong Kong then ? Or when they make someone confess under threat ?

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    It is hard to accept that western countries are the most evil countries in the world right now, have caused suffering of millions, destroyed entire regions, looted and pillaged on behalf of corporations in name of freedom/democracy and are held unaccountable, so simple minded people need to make up an enemy to excuse atrocities committed by the west.
    That needs backed up. Especially since you lump all Western countries together. I won't deny flaws, and atrocities committed. At least people here can acknowledge them, challenge them and criticise the governments and organisations carrying them out, which many people do. You can't do the same in China. Also how many places outside of the west is it better to be a religious minority? A racial minority? An ethnic minority? A woman? A child? A sexual minority? A journalist? How many places outside of the west have done more to try and rectify its societal faults?

    This is just more hyperbolic CCP apologism, more of the same "the west has faults, therefore China has none" non logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    Thing is, media today does not do due diligence. When it comes to anything about China, it gets even worse because:

    1. China doesn't allow foreign media due to their experience with propaganda campaigns, especially when it comes from US or UK, thus it is hard to do reporting.

    2. No media wants to do it because every attempt at going against flow results in:

    a. Removal of funding or tax breaks. It is a powerful instrument used by governments to make media comply.

    b. Dealing with masses of zealots. After decades of being told that commies are bad and China is full of commies, people are not open minded. As you have probably seen in this very thread, just fact that China has 1 party system is more than enough for people to paint China as ultimate evil. It is worse than Trump cult, except that nobody wants to show different side.

    So what we have a massive media circle jerk. No fact, just accusations, witnesses (totally unpaid and unbiased of course, telling the truth, not just lying to make money) and so on, but all of that is done without stepping into China. No actual reporting from China.

    Then there is culture of clickbait. Plenty of "news" about China comes from tabloids that do nothing but generate clickbait news. However, no other media is willing to say that it is bullshit, clickbait bullshit is being treated as truth.

    Then there are US and UK governments. They spend billions on propaganda campaigns. Where do you think those billions go to?


    Oh, there is plenty of bad. However it is nowhere near as bad as media and government tell us. Did China go a bit overboard with dealing with islamic extremists? Probably. However media blows it out of proportions and lies, pretending that islamic extremists are poor people and Chinese government commits genocide against them. Numbers are being blown out of proportions, claims that there are millions of people being imprisoned accepted as truth without any checking. Are there people in prisons? Of course. Are there innocent people? Probably. Are there millions of people being detained and thrown into prisons? Of course not.

    Many people believe in absolute good and absolute evil. World is not black and white. Super villains who do bad shit for sake of doing bad shit exist only in comic books.

    In real world things are done for reason.

    In west reasons are profit and maintaining superiority, thus attacking anyone that dares to challenge west (China is the primary target of both economic and propaganda wars).

    In China reasons are security (thus dealing with islamic extremists and not giving a single fuck about opinions of anyone else), being able to stand up for themselves instead of being yet another western puppet and bringing millions out of poverty. They have managed the latter faster than any other country on Earth, got from poor nation to one of the most powerful in record times and are now dealing with islamic extremism. Unlike US and UK, they share borders with sources of that extremism, so they cannot afford being nice about it. But hey, at least they are not killing extremists, they are re-educating them to be productive members of society, unlike US that kills muslims in thousands.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I never said anything like that. Please point me to where I said that Baltic states were living good life under communism. Please do. What I do remember posting is that baltic states were piss poor during independence between WW1 and WW2, which is true, but extrapolating from that that communists were good is big straw man.

    I still wonder what that shitposter is immune to moderation. All he does is posts insults, personal attacks and lies, basically trolling the shit out of every thread.
    Big fucking yikes.

  20. #200
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    The burden of evidence is on the accuser, all you do is make claims, with zero proof chelly.

    Western msm is no better than soviet pravda tbh, just make a claim, then endlessly repeat it n the amount of repetition becomes "proof"
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2021-07-25 at 03:46 PM.

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