Chinese nationalists, Wumao Propaganda and the Rise of China

[Specialka]

So many think tankies here, believing everything their governments are pushing.

Even worse, people with massive superiority complex glamouring days of UK owning HK as if colonialism was godsend to local population.

But reality is, UK is a has been colonialist, US is a modern wannabe colonialist that is becoming less and less relevant each year. Those countries are responsible for more wars than any other country, for more misery than anyone else caused over many hundred years. UK and US are responsible for killing many millions of people worldwide, committing biggest genocide in history.

World is bigger than US, UK and their allies. Vast majority of people live in other countries and they have been victims of UK/US meddling in everyone's business for profit.

China is the only country that can counter US and UK colonialists, so it is natural that US and UK are pushing anti-China propaganda. Unlike US/UK, China is building friendships based on mutual benefit, by building infrastructure, not destroying countries. Anyone can see why US and UK are butthurt and are using blackmail and bullying to sabotage it. West had several centuries of being dominant force in the world, it all ended up with entire continents being shitholes with no infrastructure and people living below poverty line, while west steals all natural resources from those countries.

China is bringing millions out of poverty, creating infrastructure and building schools. US/UK would love to keep everyone in poverty so they could dominate the world. Who is the bad guy here?

And obvisouly what China is doing in Africa is not colonialism

Who is believing propaganda BS now ?

[Specialka]

But it isn't. They are not doing it by force, they are doing it by offering deals that are mutually profitable. In west this is called international investments and is considered a good thing... unless China doing it then it is a bad thing.

Unlike west that invaded those countries by force, killed millions and stole resources, some of which is still going on because they legally own stuff that they stole.

You do realize that those countries are literally bound to China ? I do not call that mutual interest. And as usual, china infrastructures are of bad quality so in a few years, once China is done with them, most of those infrastructures will be unusable. There is a reason why "made in China" equal bad quality.

And overall, yes, I would prefer if a dictatorship, which is doing a genocide right now, were not colonising and expanding their influence over the globe.

[Elegiac]

Unlike US/UK, China is building friendships based on mutual benefit

Hahahahaha.

What you're describing is literally a Chinese version of the Marshall Plan. You know, that massive exercise in American imperialism?

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As for dictatorship, you should do more research too. Not having many political parties that talk a lot but do nothing, could actually be a good thing if you want country to progress and get out of poverty. It also means political system is less prone to Trump-like liars, influence from abroad (which US exports all over the world to prevent countries from challenging US orders). Democracy is good in country that has reached level where it can afford it, for poor it is almost always results in disaster.

Just take a look at democratic revolutions US has done over the world, vast majority of victims are worse off than they were.... but hey, they are poor and often at state of war, but at least they have democracy, right?

"Dictatorships are good actually because the US' persistent efforts at sabotaging democracy in order to prevent left wing governments from taking power owing to Red Scare bullshit proves that democracy is bad" is a pretty braindead argument.

Let me guess, you actually think the US' government is democratic too, huh? Well, I suggest educating yourself.

[Specialka]

That post is so dumb that I don't even know where to start. Watch videos that actually show that infrastructure, not just copy paste western media talking points. Yes, China produces a lot of cheap low quality stuff, as do all other asian countries that are struggling to get out of poverty, which in part western colonialists are responsible for. But that isn't it. China also makes a lot of high quality stuff. Infrastructure is actually high quality stuff.

All you have to do is look at videos showing it, not just repeat talking points western media and politicians, who have never seen (or in some case have seen it, but prefer to ignore to push their agenda) told you.

As for dictatorship, you should do more research too. Not having many political parties that talk a lot but do nothing, could actually be a good thing if you want country to progress and get out of poverty. It also means political system is less prone to Trump-like liars, influence from abroad (which US exports all over the world to prevent countries from challenging US orders). Democracy is good in country that has reached level where it can afford it, for poor it is almost always results in disaster.

Just take a look at democratic revolutions US has done over the world, vast majority of victims are worse off than they were.... but hey, they are poor and often at state of war, but at least they have democracy, right?

As I said, who is believing propaganda BS now ? Showing an infrastructure on video does not show how it was made, with which material it was made, etc ... You know, everything that will make it last in time.

I won't even bother with the rest, you are too far gone.

[Draco-Onis]

Interesting fan fiction. China doesn't have enough nukes to kill quarter of their own population, but magically human race ends. Do their nuclear weapons include fleet of goa'uld motherships?

It would take about 10 100 mega ton bombs to create an explosion that enough radiation and obstruction to end the human race. The estimates for China's nuclear abilities range from the low 50 to high 1,000. Even if you were right you do realize that China has allies with nukes right? either way the only one living in fantasy is you.

Edit: Props for the SG-1 reference at least.

[Flarelaine]

They more or less have, but an entire city isn't just going to uproot and move out, nor can they all afford to.

And British only want the ones with an entrepreneurial spirit anyway, not the unwashed masses, so to speak.

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And obvisouly what China is doing in Africa is not colonialism

Better yet, what China is doing in Uyghuristan is not colonialism! After all, the land they conquered was next to their own, so it's domestic, right?

[Mihalik]

China is bringing millions out of poverty, creating infrastructure and building schools. US/UK would love to keep everyone in poverty so they could dominate the world. Who is the bad guy here?

Joseph Stalin industrialized the USSR, increased literacy rates and lifted millions out of poverty. While sticking millions more into gulags and murdering hundreds of thousands.

Who is the bad guy here?

What the shit are we talking about here? Nuance dude...have you ever heard of it?

[alkyd]

From wikipedia on why China started enforcing restrictions in Xinjiang province.

The Uyghurs have no religious rights and have been forced take part in actions against their religion, Islam; for example, eating pork, forced marriages, and drinking alcohol.[54] China does not enforce the law against children attending mosques on non-Uyghurs outside Xinjiang.[55][56] Since the 1980s Islamic private schools (Sino-Arabic schools (中阿*校)) have been permitted by the Chinese government in Muslim areas, excluding Xinjiang because of its separatist sentiment.[c][58][59][60]

Hui Muslims employed by the state, unlike Uyghurs, are allowed to fast during Ramadan. The number of Hui going on Hajj is expanding and Hui women are allowed to wear veils, but Uyghur women are discouraged from wearing them.[61] Muslim ethnic groups in different regions are treated differently by the Chinese government with regard to religious freedom. Religious freedom exists for Hui Muslims, who can practice their religion, build mosques and have their children attend them; more controls are placed on Uyghurs in Xinjiang.[62] Hui religious schools are allowed, and an autonomous network of mosques and schools run by a Hui Sufi leader was formed with the approval of the Chinese government.[63][64] According to The Diplomat, Uyghur religious activities are curtailed but Hui Muslims are granted widespread religious freedom; therefore, Chinese government policy is directed against Uyghur separatism.[65]

In the last two decades of the 20th century, Uyghurs in Turpan were treated favourably by China with regard to religion; while Kashgar and Hotan were subject to more stringent government control.[66][67][68] Uyghur and Han Communist officials in Turpan turned a blind eye to the law, allowing Islamic education of Uyghur children.[69][70] Religious celebrations and the Hajj were encouraged by the Chinese government for Uyghur Communist Party members, and 350 mosques were built in Turpan between 1979 and 1989.[71] As a result, Han, Hui and the Chinese government were then viewed more positively by Uyghurs in Turpan.[72] In 1989, there were 20,000 mosques in Xinjiang.[73] Until separatist disturbances began in 1996, China allowed people to ignore the rule prohibiting religious observance by government officials.[74] Large mosques were built with Chinese government assistance in Ürümqi.[75] While rules proscribing religious activities were enforced in southern Xinjiang, conditions were comparatively lax in Ürümqi.[76]


Armed police and metal detector at the Kargilik bazaar
According to The Economist, in 2016 Uyghurs faced difficulties travelling within Xinjiang and live in fenced-off neighbourhoods with checkpoint entrances. In southern Ürümqi, each apartment door has a QR code so police can easily see photos of the dwelling's authorized residents.

In 2017, overseas Uyghur activists claimed that new restrictions were being imposed, including people being fined heavily or subjected to programmes of "re-education" for refusing to eat during fasting in Ramadan, the detention of hundreds of Uyghurs as they returned from Mecca pilgrimages, and many standard Muslim names, such as Muhammad, being banned for newborn children. It was claimed that Han officials had been assigned to reside in the homes of those with interned Uyghur family members as part of the government's "Pair Up and Become Family" program. There were also reportedly separate queues for Uyghurs and outsiders, where the former needed to get their identity cards checked at numerous points.

Long story short, Uighurs were given a lot of freedom to practice their religion and traditions until they started separatist movements.

The terrorist organization in China that promotes the separatist sentiments

The Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP) is an Islamic extremist terrorist organisation seeking the expulsion of China from "East Turkestan".[235] Since its emergence in 2007 it has claimed responsibility for a number of terrorist attacks,[161][145] and the Chinese government accuses it of over 200, resulting in 162 deaths and over 440 injuries.[236] Hundreds of Uyghurs are thought to reside in Pakistan and Afghanistan and to have fought alongside extremist groups in conflicts such as the Syrian Civil War.[237] However, the exact size of the Turkistan Islamic Party remains unknown and some experts dispute its ability to orchestrate attacks in China, or that is exists at all as a cohesive group.[161][238][239]

The TIP is often assumed to be the same as the earlier East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), which has been effectively defunct since the death of its leader Hasan Mahsum in 2003.[145] Although the names are often used synonymously, and China exclusively uses ETIM, the link between the two is still unproven.[240]

Al-Qaeda links
The TIP are believed to have links to al-Qaeda and affiliated groups such as the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan,[240] and the Pakistani Taliban.[241] Philip B. K. Potter writes that despite the fact that "throughout the 1990s, Chinese authorities went to great lengths to publicly link organizations active in Xinjiang—particularly the ETIM—to al-Qaeda [...] the best information indicates that prior to 2001, the relationship included some training and funding but relatively little operational cooperation."[3][242] Meanwhile, specific incidents were downplayed by Chinese authorities as isolated criminal acts.[1][15] However, in 1998 the group's headquarters were moved to Kabul, in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, while "China’s ongoing security crackdown in Xinjiang has forced the most militant Uyghur separatists into volatile neighboring countries, such as Pakistan," Potter writes, "where they are forging strategic alliances with, and even leading, jihadist factions affiliated with al-Qaeda and the Taliban." The East Turkestan Islamic Movement dropped "East" from its name as it increased its domain.[1] The U.S. State Department have listed them as a terrorist organisation since 2002,[243] and as having received "training and financial assistance" from al-Qaeda.[242] In October 2020, this designation was lifted.[244]

A number of members of al-Qaeda have expressed support for the TIP, Xinjiang independence, and/or jihad against China. They include Mustafa Setmariam Nasar,[245] Abu Yahya al-Libi,[246][247] and current al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri who has on multiple occasions issued statements naming Xinjiang (calling it "East Turkestan") as one of the "battlegrounds" of "jihad to liberate every span of land of the Muslims that has been usurped and violated."[248][249][250][251][252] Additionally, the al-Qaeda aligned al-Fajr Media Center distributes TIP promotional material.[253]

Andrew McGregor, writing for the Jamestown Foundation, opines that "though there is no question a small group of Uyghur militants fought alongside their Taliban hosts against the Northern Alliance [...] the scores of terrorists Beijing claimed that Bin Laden was sending to China in 2002 never materialized" and that "the TIP’s “strategy” of making loud and alarming threats (attacks on the Olympics, use of biological and chemical weapons, etc.) without any operational follow-up has been enormously effective in promoting China's efforts to characterise Uyghur separatists as terrorists."[254]

What's happening in Xinjiang is just another front of the so called jihad against infidels. Its aim is to create "Islamic Caliphate" spanning from Syria (ISIS) to Central Asia and Afghanistan (Taliban) and further into the western China with Uighur Islamists in charge.

[Flarelaine]

Long story short, Uighurs were given a lot of freedom to practice their religion and traditions until they started separatist movements.

Freedom of religion is a fundamental human right.

[alkyd]

Freedom of religion is a fundamental human right.

And they had that freedom just like other Muslim minorities in China. Uighurs are not the only Muslims.

[Flarelaine]

And they had that freedom just like other Muslim minorities in China. Uighurs are not the only Muslims.

And now they don't.

A fundamental right is one that cannot be conditional.

[Ripster42]

I will do as I please, maybe in the future you may wish to expand your vocabulary when it comes to quip. We obviously don't hold each other in any regard and I rather my detractors have more comebacks then repeating a single word ad nauseum.

You blamed the UK for the wrong thing (what they did wrong is what led to them having control of HK in the first place) and absolved china for the wrongs it committed. Stop wearing your ignorance as a shield. At this point no one knows if your account is a fake that finally jumped the shark.

Also, really weird to see someone complain about another's vocab when their next comment is this atrocity (hint: what does obstruction mean?):

It would take about 10 100 mega ton bombs to create an explosion that enough radiation and obstruction to end the human race. The estimates for China's nuclear abilities range from the low 50 to high 1,000. Even if you were right you do realize that China has allies with nukes right? either way the only one living in fantasy is you.

Edit: Props for the SG-1 reference at least.

Citation needed for the bit about the "end of the human race."

What allies, plural, does china have with nukes? NK and... ?

[alkyd]

And now they don't.

A fundamental right is one that cannot be conditional.

As long as it has peaceful intentions. But I doubt any country would tolerate people practicing extremism as part of their religious beliefs.

[Draco-Onis]

You blamed the UK for the wrong thing (what they did wrong is what led to them having control of HK in the first place) and absolved china for the wrongs it committed. Stop wearing your ignorance as a shield. At this point no one knows if your account is a fake that finally jumped the shark.

Also, really weird to see someone complain about another's vocab when their next comment is this atrocity (hint: what does obstruction mean?):

Feel free to quote where I absolved China of the wrongs they committed.

Citation needed for the bit about the "end of the human race."

https://ia803409.us.archive.org/14/i...-Technical.pdf

Obviously weapons have gotten more efficient and devastating since that estimate, the higher estimate of 1,000 using lower yield weapons would result in the same effect. As demonstrated by the first use of nuke the majority of deaths would not occur due to the explosion itself.

What allies, plural, does china have with nukes? NK and... ?

Russia and anyone in their alliance would naturally jump in if the US attacked China not because they have any love for them but geopolitically and economically the Western powers taking over would be bad for them. WW3 would not be something we would survive because of how many WMDs even excluding nukes are all over the world.

[Elegiac]

As long as it has peaceful intentions. But I doubt any country would tolerate people practicing extremism as part of their religious beliefs.

No, but a country that isn't a despotic police state wouldn't use the actions of some of a minority as justification to exterminate the rest of that minority.

Stop trying to excuse ethnic cleansing.

[Azadina]

It would take about 10 100 mega ton bombs to create an explosion that enough radiation and obstruction to end the human race. The estimates for China's nuclear abilities range from the low 50 to high 1,000. Even if you were right you do realize that China has allies with nukes right? either way the only one living in fantasy is you.

Edit: Props for the SG-1 reference at least.

OK, so Tsar bomba, 50 odd megatons explosion. By your math that's 5% of the required end of human race amount from one bomb. What was the death toll? How many hundred million? It has to be a bit more than "dozen or less", or your estimate makes about zero sense.

[Shadowferal]

Russia and anyone in their alliance would naturally jump in if the US attacked China not because they have any love for them but geopolitically and economically the Western powers taking over would be bad for them.

Doubt it.
Putin's smarter than that. It matters little which country, the US or China, coming out ahead of a nuclear exchange, both would be weakened to such a degree that Russia would left as the sole super power.

[Draco-Onis]

OK, so Tsar bomba, 50 odd megatons explosion. By your math that's 5% of the required end of human race amount from one bomb. What was the death toll? How many hundred million? It has to be a bit more than "dozen or less", or your estimate makes about zero sense.

It's not the explosion that kills the most people.

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Doubt it.
Putin's smarter than that. It matters little which country, the US or China, coming out ahead of a nuclear exchange, both would be weakened to such a degree that Russia would left as the sole super power.

I don't think anyone neighboring China would have the option of sitting it out. The winds and clouds don't care about regional borders so if you are around China nukes going off would be very bad for you.

[Ihavewaffles]

That's backwards logic. So US ship sails near China and somehow it is China that is the aggressor? Anyone who thinks China is the aggressor here needs their head checked because part of brain responsible for basic logic is clearly not working.

Well they (england) sailed into crimea RUSSIA n blamed Russia for confrontation as if the landmass sailed to england..

It's never the west's fault.. they
1. confront
2. pikachu face

[Ripster42]

Feel free to quote where I absolved China of the wrongs they committed.

You do nothing but put the blame on a different country other than the one that's actually responsible.

https://ia803409.us.archive.org/14/i...-Technical.pdf

Obviously weapons have gotten more efficient and devastating since that estimate, the higher estimate of 1,000 using lower yield weapons would result in the same effect. As demonstrated by the first use of nuke the majority of deaths would not occur due to the explosion itself.

So what page exactly in this 500 page link? Nothing I search for mentions anything about 10 100mt bombs killing humanity (destruction, annihilation, human, race, estimate). The closest it comes is saying 10,000-100,000 bombs of the weapons we have. In fact, the report seems to directly refute you when talking about it:

J;'ois onir..g, moreover, wouJ d be obvia t.ed by
detawtlon ab.ove the atnephare, which is in any case the region in which
.. the generul deatructive effects of the Super seem greatest.

It makes no direct reference to the size of the 'super' bombs it says would be required to pollute the atmosphere (this is what it says, not the end of the human race you'll notice), but does say it doesn't matter how many it would take because the best use of those types of weapons isn't in a way that does so. It's interesting to note that, indeed, your report comes from before russia detonated the tsar bomba. We've got experimental data on what a 50mt bomb does when it explodes in atmosphere. As the bombs that size aren't fission devices, they don't release as much radiation as the bombs your report was theorizing with. The report is, quite literally, based on science we know is outdated and not applicable to today's weapons, and even there, the report doesn't back you.

Russia and anyone in their alliance would naturally jump in if the US attacked China not because they have any love for them but geopolitically and economically the Western powers taking over would be bad for them. WW3 would not be something we would survive because of how many WMDs even excluding nukes are all over the world.

Russia is not in an alliance with china. It's also a pretty big stretch to move from not allowing china to press its claims in the south china sea and nuclear war.

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Have you ever heard of Russia?

Yes, Russia is not in an alliance with china.