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  1. #1
    Mechagnome Archmage Xaxxas's Avatar
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    "Domination" - The Titans - Warcraft RPG Shadows & Light

    Before you chime off down below about the RPG handbook being non-canon, just know we all know, and are even still discussing this interesting tidbit within it.
    After all, there's a lot that made it into canon as well.

    With that out of the way, I found this to be interesting while flipping through this book,

    The only mention of "Domination" in Shadows & Light is in regards to a Special Attack that only The Titans have. It is described as:

    "At will, as a standard action, a titan can crush the will of his favored enemy."

    All 6 members of the Pantheon have it, and Sargeras has a proficiency with it.

    I want to point out the use of the term "crush the will" and how perhaps that could have inspired some of the current Domination magic, and moreso the themes of Free Will and Choice that go along with Sylvanas and Zovaal's quest.


    It's not an uncommon theory that The First Ones and The Titans may/could be one in the same right now. I'm not sure about this myself yet, as this doesn't lend itself proof of it's own, but further visual parallels can be made.


    'The hallmark of Domination magic is its distinctive runes.' to quote WoWpedia's summarization





    "This world is a prison." are these possibly Domination Runes around Reality?


    "Too long I endured The Makers' flawed design."

    As well, only other beings in the handbook told to have the abilities of "dominate person" are two Dreadlords and Xavius.

    Noted above, all of this could be nothing! Though who's to say Danuser hasn't read this book back in the day? Wouldn't you have? If I were him, I'd still be sourcing from it here and there today.

    Of course it's possible The Titans learned Domination from The First Ones. We'll have to see.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Archmage Xaxxas; 2021-07-14 at 12:59 AM.
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    Dreadlord Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Woah that floor on the pantheon doesn’t it look like Oribos?

  3. #3
    I never noticed the patterns on the floor but it's spot on to domination runes.

    Also, keep in mind that's there's a line of dialog that implies Zovaal knew a timelord who may or may not be Aman'thul, who taught him how to use time magic to simulate battles. If this is how he learned domination...

    I doubt the Titans ARE the First Ones, but will admit it would be a nice twist. I think it's more likely that the Titans are the pantheon the CLOSEST related to the First Ones... perhaps their direct children.

    The First Ones seem obsessed with ordering things, and order/Arcane is the Titan's whole thing.

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    Warchief Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    I never noticed the patterns on the floor but it's spot on to domination runes.

    Also, keep in mind that's there's a line of dialog that implies Zovaal knew a timelord who may or may not be Aman'thul, who taught him how to use time magic to simulate battles. If this is how he learned domination...

    I doubt the Titans ARE the First Ones, but will admit it would be a nice twist. I think it's more likely that the Titans are the pantheon the CLOSEST related to the First Ones... perhaps their direct children.

    The First Ones seem obsessed with ordering things, and order/Arcane is the Titan's whole thing.
    How hysterically fucked would it be if we're leading up to some narrative where the Titans are the First Ones due to time travel fuckery and are just stuck in some hellish infinite loop, forced to repeat the Warcraft cycle ad nauseum.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Archmage Xaxxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    I never noticed the patterns on the floor but it's spot on to domination runes.
    The runes are indeed different, but the likeness of their use is mostly what I was pointing out.

    The Domination runes are actually often closer to the Runes on the Box Art.




    Last edited by Archmage Xaxxas; 2021-07-13 at 08:16 PM.
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    Dreadlord Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Constellars might be the first ones. None else is coming to my mind. Clues in the new dungeon are disturbing. Bah, small details are everywhere. Can’t stop thinking about it.
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2021-07-13 at 08:24 PM.

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    Mechagnome Archmage Xaxxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    Constellars might be the first ones. None else is coming to my mind. Clues in the new dungeon are disturbing. Can’t stop thinking about it.
    I made a thread about this a few months back as well, though lately my mind has been more set on the idea that it's possible Norgannon created them. It's just a simpler explanation. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...the-Constellar

    Though interestingly, Argus splits into 7 different Constellar Designates in his fight.

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    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post
    I made a thread about this a few months back as well, though lately my mind has been more set on the idea that it's possible Norgannon created them. It's just a simpler explanation. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...the-Constellar

    Though interestingly, Argus splits into 7 different Constellar Designates in his fight.

    Aren't 'Constellars' not just like Algalon the Observer? Servants of the Titans, and most likely a construct of the Titans as well? Maybe an older construct that the current worlds we know about?
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    Dreadlord Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post
    I made a thread about this a few months back as well, though lately my mind has been more set on the idea that it's possible Norgannon created them. It's just a simpler explanation. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...the-Constellar

    Though interestingly, Argus splits into 7 different Constellar Designates in his fight.

    Yeah I saw it few days ago. You mentioned Harbaron as well. The Jailer insulted life and creation by corrupting and humiliating their kind. Hell knows what else he has done to them. As for Argus, Titan may have called upon a constellar when situation was critical. That would make sense. Even the title "Herald of the Titans" says a lot.
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2021-07-13 at 10:20 PM.

  10. #10
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post
    Before you chime off down below about the RPG handbook being non-canon, just know we all know, and are even still discussing this interesting tidbit within it.
    After all, there's a lot that made it into canon as well.

    With that out of the way, I found this to be interesting while flipping through this book,

    The only mention of "Domination" in Shadows & Light is in regards to a Special Attack that only The Titans have. It is described as:

    "At will, as a standard action, a titan can crush the will of his favored enemy."

    All 6 members of the Pantheon have it, and Sargeras has a proficiency with it.

    I want to point out the use of the term "crush the will" and how perhaps that could have inspired some of the current Domination magic, and moreso the themes of Free Will and Choice that go along with Sylvanas and Zovaal's quest.


    It's not an uncommon theory that The First Ones and The Titans may/could be one in the same right now. I'm not sure about this myself, as this doesn't lend itself proof of it's own, but further visual parallels can be made.


    'The hallmark of Domination magic is its distinctive runes.' to quote WoWpedia's summarization





    "This world is a prison." are these possibly Domination Runes around Reality?


    "Too long I endured The Makers' flawed design."

    As well, only other beings in the handbook told to have the abilities of "dominate person" are two Dreadlords and Xavius.

    Noted above, all of this could be nothing! Though who's to say Danuser hasn't read this book back in the day? Wouldn't you have? If I were him, I'd still be sourcing from it here and there today.

    Of course it's possible The Titans learned Domination from The First Ones. We'll have to see.

    Thoughts?
    Honestly. I could believe Domination magic to have been used by Titans without a doubt. Mostly due to the fact that the Titans have had to fight other forces in creating their own constructs (such as the elements, the Void, etc).
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  11. #11
    Mechagnome Archmage Xaxxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Aren't 'Constellars' not just like Algalon the Observer? Servants of the Titans, and most likely a construct of the Titans as well? Maybe an older construct that the current worlds we know about?
    "To aid the Pantheon, Aman'thul called upon a mysterious race known as the constellar. These celestial beings observed the many worlds ordered by the titans, staying vigilant for any sign of instability."

    From Chronicle Vol. 1. About all we have on them so far. Kind of sounds like they existed before the Titans even?

    Harbaron in The Maw of Souls is kind of a doozy if they are simply titanborne
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    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post
    "To aid the Pantheon, Aman'thul called upon a mysterious race known as the constellar. These celestial beings observed the many worlds ordered by the titans, staying vigilant for any sign of instability."

    From Chronicle Vol. 1. About all we have on them so far. Kind of sounds like they existed before the Titans even?

    Harbaron in The Maw of Souls is kind of a doozy if they are simply titanborne
    Alas. I do not have access to the chronicles, though again, they are from a limited perspective as well.

    But Algalon comes out very much as just being a drone to the Titans. Unless, my previous comment, that it could be highly plausible the use of Domination magic was utilized by the Titans as they had to fight forces to create something of their own.
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  13. #13
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    1) the only reason wow rpg books called non-canon because ppl kept asking about Jaina brother, blizz got fed decide to remove him from lore, only to make him actual lore, every other topic else in wow rpg books that also exist in lore, never contradicted it
    2) wow rpg books focused a lot more on tiny bits of lore, not major line, so hard to consider them non-canon, they are usually minor details that complete picture
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  14. #14
    Mechagnome Archmage Xaxxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Alas. I do not have access to the chronicles, though again, they are from a limited perspective as well.

    But Algalon comes out very much as just being a drone to the Titans. Unless, my previous comment, that it could be highly plausible the use of Domination magic was utilized by the Titans as they had to fight forces to create something of their own.
    Agreed about Algalon yea. Norgannon's RPG description fits the Constellar behavior about as well as it can as well, "The blank expression on this platinum-skinned titan's face is unreadable." "Norgannon knows almost everything and is utterly passionless."

    Norgannon visually resembles the Constellar the closest, and he's said to be the Keeper of Celestial Magics and Lore.
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    Dreadlord Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    The clue he left. His battle pet Stardust where it says “In the end, we are all wrought from stardust”. Then the last boss in Tazavesh casting collapsing stars. Then the relics in Korthia, Constellan Writ in Maw. I freaked out. It turns out the knowledge they got is enormous which is why they have chosen to remain secretive. Not saying every constellar could be the first one that might depend from the type of stars they have or age. Elegon didn’t cast big bangs and collapsing stars for example. I would love to fantasize about it and I would go on and on but I’m stuck in train and my phone battery is like 7%. Hahaha
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2021-07-13 at 10:21 PM.

  16. #16
    The person who supposedly knew a time traveler to simulate battle was the Primus not the Jailer, that's why he's a master tactician.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post
    The person who supposedly knew a time traveler to simulate battle was the Primus not the Jailer, that's why he's a master tactician.
    Yep, and he knew the Titans according to his memories we managed to recover. Most interesting one is “Memory of Sunless Skies” which allows us to fly in Shadowlands.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post
    The person who supposedly knew a time traveler to simulate battle was the Primus not the Jailer, that's why he's a master tactician.
    Yeah, I meant the Primus. The point still stands as Primus used Domination to bind Zovaal, who then reengineered it to make all his weapons including Frostmourne.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, the First Ones = Titans theory has merit when you realize that not a single person has mentioned the titans in the Shadowlands (besides them being mentioned in a few items) and the First Ones never being mentioned in Chronicles. Of course it could be because the writers hadn't thought of them... but what if they are one and the same?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Xaxxas View Post
    The runes are indeed different, but the likeness of their use is mostly what I was pointing out.

    The Domination runes are actually often closer to the Runes on the Box Art.




    I mean, taking Occam's Razor to it would imply Blizzard just likes those standard rune shapes. For Zovaal and Frostmourne, the distinction is more clear, but here we may just be looking for evidence to support a conclusion that's already been reached, so everything retroactively looks like evidence.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Yeah, I meant the Primus. The point still stands as Primus used Domination to bind Zovaal, who then reengineered it to make all his weapons including Frostmourne.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, the First Ones = Titans theory has merit when you realize that not a single person has mentioned the titans in the Shadowlands (besides them being mentioned in a few items) and the First Ones never being mentioned in Chronicles. Of course it could be because the writers hadn't thought of them... but what if they are one and the same?
    Honestly, them never being mentioned would give more merit to the theory. However, I think Danny-boy or someone already talked about the First Ones, so I think it's pretty clear by now they're different. Not to mention that their technology is rather distinct from the Titans, being more geometrical in nature and a little more primal-looking.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    Common sense would dictate that they learned it from or it was bestowed to them by their creators, the first ones.
    Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos was the game that brought me into gaming. I was 17 years old then, I abhorred gaming before this game. From then on, I became a fan of Warcraft and Blizzard. To see it all go down the drain like this is truly sad for me. No king rules forever but at least some of them went down in history as real badasses. I hoped Blizzard and Warcraft would be one of them but it is no longer possible.

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