I just realized the best expansion ever for us; and it may the best for everyone too.

[epigramx]

Imagine that the entire expansion is ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY DUNGEONS AND RAIDS; so for example the first "zone" is 5 to 10 dungeons and 2-3 small raids and you go on like that for like 5 zones and it's all dungeons and raids all the way and in the end of the first patch you get a giga-raid which may also expand itself as the expansion unfolds (e.g. imagine if WotLK had a giga-Ulduar that kept opening new bigger wings in it every single patch until the end of the expansion).

And it would also remove the main problem we face today as people that mainly care about optimal raiding (and the pvpers are together with us at that); we don't give a shit to do mundane daily and weekly tasks in the open world in order to have an optimal character; the devs' excuse is "casuals like it" but casuals have plenty of open world grinds already and they don't have to contaminate the hard core world with it too.

[Azerate]

So you want an expansion to be exclusively content that most people never do.

Yeah that would be great.

[Saltysquidoon]

5-10 dungeons per zone even with shadowlands barebones 4 zones would average out to like 30 dungeons that's mental my man.

[Triceron]

To be very honest

That's what I'd imagine "Classic Plus" could be.

Just throw a bunch of awesome "Old Raid" style progression content into Vanilla. Why Vanilla? Because that's the place where story doesn't need to progress and already exists as an 'Alternate universe where canon doesn't matter' anyways.

[muto]

Honestly if they didn’t waste time on the Renown System and Torghast they could have added so many more cool things. I look at Torghast, and the Renown System, and wonder how many more dungeons, raids, arenas, and bgs they could have made instead.

[Finear]

isnt that what classic tbc is pretty much lol? once you get 70 do couple of heroics you can just raidlog and do nothing else

[Shrouded]

That's the opposite of what I'd want from an expansion.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

So you want an expansion to be exclusively content that most people never do.

Yeah that would be great.

Yeah, this. This is a very tone-deaf post.

[Razion]

Seems like you grabbed the right inferences but arrived at entirely the wrong conclusions.

There are more casuals than raiders, so it makes sense to make more content for casuals than raiders. Raiders, relative to casuals, aren't paying the bills to the extent the casuals are.

Therefore, if the content casuals are more likely to consume is casual world content, then there should be more of that. Relatively, dungeon and raid content therefore isn't being consumed to the extent that casual world content is -- so focusing on casual world content would result in less wasted content, less wasted money when building expacs.

Also, if people are hyper competitive for primarily dungeons and raids, doubling down on this just seems like it would make people feel more inclined to optimize, as it would be the only content in the game. Alternatively, if there were no dungeons and raids and only casual world content, wouldn't that mean that there would be less reason to optimize?

[facefist]

This is one of the worst ideas I have seen here and I've seen a lot. The poster above pretty much explains why.

[Temp name]

Considering how few people raid / do serious m+, this is easily the worst idea I've heard.

Even as someone who does m+ pushing, this would be a fucking nightmare. With 5-10 dungeons per zone, at 4-5 zones, what's what, 30 dungeons? If I want something from one of them, then I have basically no chance of getting that key. Or if I want to do a specific dungeon for score, again, basically shit out of luck.

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Therefore, if the content casuals are more likely to consume is casual world content, then there should be more of that. Relatively, dungeon and raid content therefore isn't being consumed to the extent that casual world content is -- so focusing on casual world content would result in less wasted content, less wasted money when building expacs.

And btw, this is the exact reason why LFR was made, and still exists. Because it gets casuals into raids so they can justify spending as much time and money on it as they do. Without LFR we get dragon soul every patch. Recycled boss models, recycled boss arenas, and recycled areas between them.

[spalernTJ]

What we need, are less bubble systems that only work for one expansion and are removed after, and more systems / content that focuses on actual longevity. Systems that can span several expansions.

[epigramx]

So you want an expansion to be exclusively content that most people never do.

Yeah that would be great.

I'm not so sure about that. 80% of the actual GAMING in this ..game is the class mechanics and those are mostly expressed in dungeons and raids and pvp. The only other "major" gameplay in the game are the ..pet battles (PS Don't forget that dungeons and raids don't have to be only mythic mode!).

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5-10 dungeons per zone even with shadowlands barebones 4 zones would average out to like 30 dungeons that's mental my man.

And awesome. By the way don't forget that all those don't have to be hard. E.g. the super casuals may still have a ton of fun in them since during levelling they would be in normal and LFR mode.

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To be very honest

That's what I'd imagine "Classic Plus" could be.

Just throw a bunch of awesome "Old Raid" style progression content into Vanilla. Why Vanilla? Because that's the place where story doesn't need to progress and already exists as an 'Alternate universe where canon doesn't matter' anyways.

Maybe, but don't forget that dungeons and raids (and perhaps battlegrounds) do not have to be story-less! E.g. a zone with 5 dungeons and 3 small raids that level you in LFG/LFR mode could still have a lot of story in them both with in-game characters and cinematics.

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Honestly if they didn’t waste time on the Renown System and Torghast they could have added so many more cool things. I look at Torghast, and the Renown System, and wonder how many more dungeons, raids, arenas, and bgs they could have made instead.

The main problem with those subsystems is that they are REQUIRED, *IF* you want to be optimal at raiding or pvp and A LOT of people want to be optimal at raiding/dungeons or pvp and they're not necessarily in the top 200 guilds in the world!

It was a LOT better before MoP because you could almost exclusively live in the high end instance world after you level and that was extremely more fun for people that care to be optimal and they don't give a shit about mundane brainless grinds.

[AeneasBK]

Because that's the place where story doesn't need to progress and already exists as an 'Alternate universe where canon doesn't matter' anyways.

Since WoD that's been true of the main WoW storyline.

[epigramx]

isnt that what classic tbc is pretty much lol? once you get 70 do couple of heroics you can just raidlog and do nothing else

It was a lot better before MoP in general: yes. If you mainly cared about being optimal in pve or pvp you could for the most part live your life in the high end instances. The level of brainless grinding you have to do now on extremely mundane content (that is usually single-player too) is so boring that it can easily make you unsub before you even experience high end content (e.g. currently you need at least a WEEK if you re-enter the game to feel powerful enough to attempt anything hard and that assumes you have no life).

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That's the opposite of what I'd want from an expansion.

Not sure why you're in the raiding subforum then. Do you like LFR and despise even normal mode on the first week of a major patch?
I'm pretty sure most people that progress on 'hard mode' raiding don't give a single shit to do mindless world grinding.

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Yeah, this. This is a very tone-deaf post.

It's EXTREMELY unlikely that most people don't like this. Don't forget that it does NOT have to be done on hard modes: the levelling would be obviously on LFG/LFR mode; and it would have a lot of STORY not only by the NPCs but also with cinematics inside the instances (and it would be a lot more epic).

Besides: about ~80% of actual gameplay in this game is raiding and dungeons and battlegrounds; the only other "major" gameplay is ..pet battles; let alone group content in general can almost never compete with brainless single-player grinding in the world (even if people claim otherwise).

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Seems like you grabbed the right inferences but arrived at entirely the wrong conclusions.

There are more casuals than raiders, so it makes sense to make more content for casuals than raiders. Raiders, relative to casuals, aren't paying the bills to the extent the casuals are.

Therefore, if the content casuals are more likely to consume is casual world content, then there should be more of that. Relatively, dungeon and raid content therefore isn't being consumed to the extent that casual world content is -- so focusing on casual world content would result in less wasted content, less wasted money when building expacs.

Also, if people are hyper competitive for primarily dungeons and raids, doubling down on this just seems like it would make people feel more inclined to optimize, as it would be the only content in the game. Alternatively, if there were no dungeons and raids and only casual world content, wouldn't that mean that there would be less reason to optimize?

This can be VERY casual. E.g. the levelling would be obviously done on LFG/LFR mode and the NPCs would have a lot of story to tell and there could also be BEAUTIFUL cinematics telling you the story and top of it all it would be done with GROUP content which is superior to any single-player content whatever people claim otherwise.

And by the way I know that people often claim "groups ruin my casual gameplay": but they are clearly WRONG that this is the best casual experience they ever have: it's pretty obvious that the best casual experience in the game is still group content (e.g. RPG servers have fun with groups or people like to show their transmogs etc.).

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This is one of the worst ideas I have seen here and I've seen a lot. The poster above pretty much explains why.

Considering how few people raid / do serious m+, this is easily the worst idea I've heard.

Even as someone who does m+ pushing, this would be a fucking nightmare. With 5-10 dungeons per zone, at 4-5 zones, what's what, 30 dungeons? If I want something from one of them, then I have basically no chance of getting that key. Or if I want to do a specific dungeon for score, again, basically shit out of luck.

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And btw, this is the exact reason why LFR was made, and still exists. Because it gets casuals into raids so they can justify spending as much time and money on it as they do. Without LFR we get dragon soul every patch. Recycled boss models, recycled boss arenas, and recycled areas between them.

And again: you fail to remember that the game doesn't have only mythic mode. This can be EXTREMELY casual on choice. E.g. the levelling would obviously done on LFG/LFR mode and the NPCs would tell stories about the expansion and there could be beautiful cinematics that progress the story (and in a more EPIC way since it would be group content) (and the first time they could be unskippable too so there is zero drawback by having anyone bitching to move on).

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What we need, are less bubble systems that only work for one expansion and are removed after, and more systems / content that focuses on actual longevity. Systems that can span several expansions.

Or better yet: don't require subsystems that require brainless mundane grinding in the open world in order to be optimal for raiding or pvp.
The game was a LOT better when you could level a character and then live almost exclusively in the high end instance world (on choice).
Objectively: no raider or pvper that wants to be optimal gives a single shit to do dull easy grinding on torghast or dailies or the maw.

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I just realized (again) why I hate people who claim they know what everyone wants (and if they don't want it, they still know what is best for them).

I bet even the game designers are not that arrogant.

I don't get why you are in the raiding forum then; do you prefer doing mundane single-player grinds in the open world?
I'm pretty sure almost no one that likes high end pve or pvp gives a single shit to grind the maw or brainless dailies.
Besides: dungeons and raids are EXTREMELY underrated for CASUALS: they LOVE them if they're easy+cinematics.

[Azerate]

I'm not so sure about that. 80% of the actual GAMING in this ..game is the class mechanics and those are mostly expressed in dungeons and raids and pvp. The only other "major" gameplay in the game are the ..pet battles (PS Don't forget that dungeons and raids don't have to be only mythic mode!).

As expected from someone who comes up with such ideas, your understanding and knowledge of the game is extremely limited, to the point that I'm almost sad for you. There's 1000s of hours of non-dungeon content in WoW, and pet battles are only a small part of that.

[Lolites]

Yeah, this. This is a very tone-deaf post.

unlike the rest of posts from OP
/s

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Seems like you grabbed the right inferences but arrived at entirely the wrong conclusions.

There are more casuals than raiders, so it makes sense to make more content for casuals than raiders. Raiders, relative to casuals, aren't paying the bills to the extent the casuals are.

Therefore, if the content casuals are more likely to consume is casual world content, then there should be more of that. Relatively, dungeon and raid content therefore isn't being consumed to the extent that casual world content is -- so focusing on casual world content would result in less wasted content, less wasted money when building expacs.

Also, if people are hyper competitive for primarily dungeons and raids, doubling down on this just seems like it would make people feel more inclined to optimize, as it would be the only content in the game. Alternatively, if there were no dungeons and raids and only casual world content, wouldn't that mean that there would be less reason to optimize?

this forum needs option to upvote

[Gaidax]

I mean, I'm a mythic raider and I play this game chiefly for raids. Yet, I am not delusional enough to believe that's what everyone and hell let alone majority of players do and want from WoW.

Vast majority of players don't even step into anything more than LFR, heck, not outside the realm of possibility - majority of players don't even enter raids like at all.

Making an expansion that's purely that? Cool meme, banboi.

[exsanguinate]

wrong thread /edit