Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What Warcraft hero pilots a Lightforged mech?
    Any one of them that chooses to quest on Argus.

    If the Tinker and the Profession engineer are one in the same, why have we never seen any of the Tinker hero’s abilities show up in the profession?
    They're one in the same in the lore. The lore isn't always reflected in gameplay mechanics, just as Sunwalkers don't have any actual Sun-related abilities in their kit despite the lore explaining their source of power.

    We are talking about Engineers and Tinkers in lore, so I'm not quite sure you are asking about gameplay. Gameplay is literally whatever Blizzard wants it to be, like giving Metamorphosis to Warlocks.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-19 at 09:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  2. #142
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    19,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Any one of them that chooses to quest on Argus.
    Which hero has the ability “Summon Lightforged Warframes”? I’m unaware of his or her existence.


    They're one in the same in the lore. The lore isn't always reflected in gameplay mechanics, just as Sunwalkers don't have any actual Sun-related abilities in their kit despite the lore explaining their source of power.
    Except Sunwalkers never had any specific Sunwalker abilities, thus despite lore they were always just Paladins, and Sunwalker was just a name for Tauren Paladins.

    There’s actual Tinker abilities. That makes it more than just a name.

    We are talking about Engineers and Tinkers in lore, so I'm not quite sure you are asking about gameplay. Gameplay is literally whatever Blizzard wants it to be, like giving Metamorphosis to Warlocks.
    Gameplay reflects the lore, and isn’t backing up your argument here.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There’s actual Tinker abilities.
    They're not tied to any Tinker class, so how are they Tinker abilities?

    What you're referring to - They are Engineer NPC abilities, no? None of the NPCs you're talking about are actually called a Tinker. Neither is Gazlowe in Heroes of the Storm called a Tinker.

    Gameplay reflects the lore, and isn’t backing up your argument here.
    Metamorphosis Warlock reflects what part of Demon Hunter lore?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  4. #144
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    19,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    They're not tied to any Tinker class, so how are they Tinker abilities?
    Because they're tied to the Tinker hero. Just like DK abilities were tied to the Death Knight hero.

    What you're referring to - They are Engineer NPC abilities, no? None of the NPCs you're talking about are actually called a Tinker. Neither is Gazlowe in Heroes of the Storm called a Tinker.
    None of the heroes in HotS are called by what they were called in WC3. Illidan isn't called a Demon Hunter. Jaina isn't called an Archmage, and Thrall isn't called a Farseer.


    Metamorphosis Warlock reflects what part of Demon Hunter lore?
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Kanrethad_Ebonlocke

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because they're tied to the Tinker hero.
    Yes, like Gazlowe and Mekkatorque, who are Engineers. Again, what is the misunderstanding that you still have here? You know that Tinkers are types of Engineers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  6. #146
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    19,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yes, like Gazlowe and Mekkatorque, who are Engineers. Again, what is the misunderstanding that you still have here? You know that Tinkers are types of Engineers.
    Yes, a type of engineer. Just like Paladins, Death Knights, Enhancement Shaman, and Monks are types of warriors.

    What separates them? Abilities.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes, a type of engineer. Just like Paladins, Death Knights, Enhancement Shaman, and Monks are types of warriors.

    What separates them? Abilities.
    Actually, what separates them is lore. Gameplay is just an abstraction of what they've outlined in the lore, otherwise they could literally give Paladins Necromancy like we see in Shadowlands. The lore does not make any effort to consider them as 'Necromancers', even though that would be technical term for that type of archetype and gameplay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  8. #148
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    19,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Actually, what separates them is lore. Gameplay is just an abstraction of what they've outlined in the lore, otherwise they could literally give Paladins Necromancy like we see in Shadowlands. The lore does not make any effort to consider them as 'Necromancers', even though that would be technical term for that type of archetype and gameplay.
    The lore says that they’re all types of warriors, so how does the lore alone separate them?

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The lore says that they’re all types of warriors, so how does the lore alone separate them?
    We look at the distinctions between the titles and the core class.

    Paladin is a Holy Warrior. Is it a Warrior? No, because one has to be more specifically a 'Warrior of Light' archetype, or specifically a Paladin Order like the Knights of the Silver Hand.


    Are Tinkers a type of Engineer? Yes, because there is no special archetype of a Tinker beyond what is already used to describe an Engineer. Engineers are a broad archetype that encompasses what Tinkers are, and is otherwise treated as a racial term for Goblin, Gnome or Dwarf Engineers.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-20 at 01:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  10. #150
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    19,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    We look at the distinctions between the titles and the core class. A Paladin is described as a Holy Warrior, and that's exactly what it is. Gameplay of a Paladin reflects that, as they are pretty much a Warrior that uses Holy magic offensively and defensively.
    And that's completely based on abilities. Without abilities to define the lore "Holy" could mean anything from a prot/arms/fury warrior who spends too much time in a church, to a prot/arms/fury warrior that simply uses holy-enchanted equipment. It's the abilities that fully separate the two classes because they have completely separate ability sets.

    Where lore is concerned, have we seen any distinctions between Tinker and Engineer? If they intend for a difference to be made, then they will create one when the time comes. But that time hasn't come, and all Tinkers are still synonymous with Engineers. They are one and the same, as far as the lore is concerned.
    Yes. We've seen Mekkatorque, Gazlowe, Blackfuse, and Gallywix utilize technology that is well above what we see in the profession. Additionally their uses of that technology are well outside of the purpose of a profession. The only logical conclusion to draw is that we're seeing a different type of engineering. This is reflected in the gameplay since all 4 of those NPCs are using class-style abilities, while the profession can't utilize class style abilities. Like Paladins and Warriors, it is the abilities that separate them completely.

    Trying to use gameplay to define a lore definition is as pointless as trying to say Warlocks are Demon Hunters because they had Metamorphosis, or Paladins are Necromancers because they can use Necromancy in Shadowlands.
    No, Warlocks were Warlocks with Metamorphosis. Demon Hunters had a number of traits beyond simply metamorphosis that made them what they were. That doesn't change the fact that Blizzard would never introduce Demon Hunters as a class without Metamorphosis.

    And yes, anyone utilizing Necromancy is a Necromancer by default. The use of necromancy is literally the definition of a necromancer.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And that's completely based on abilities. Without abilities to define the lore "Holy" could mean anything from a prot/arms/fury warrior who spends too much time in a church, to a prot/arms/fury warrior that simply uses holy-enchanted equipment. It's the abilities that fully separate the two classes because they have completely separate ability sets.
    Lore already makes that distinction without any gameplay at all. As I said, you have to be of the Paladin Order, or be considered a Warrior of Light. Sunwalkers and Prelates aren't "Holy" and they are Paladins in the lore, so it just being 'Holy' isn't what it means to be a Paladin.

    Without lore to make the distinction, a Necrolord covenant Warrior would be no different from a Death Knight. Both are Warriors who can use Necromancy in gameplay definitions.

    And yes, anyone utilizing Necromancy is a Necromancer by default. The use of necromancy is literally the definition of a necromancer.
    By gameplay standards, exactly what you said.

    By lore standards, not quite. A Necromancer is more specifically a Spellcaster whose magics manipulate the power of death. That is quite different than a Necrolord Mage or Priest, which are classes who are granted Death related powers but with no lore to substantiate any change in their original classification or archetype.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-20 at 01:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Where in the lore does it state that the engineering profession represents every engineer shown in WoW? Where does the lore state that Mekkatorque and Gazlowe are profession engineers?



    Tinker is an official hero though, and the WoW classes are based on the Warcraft heroes, and the Tinker’s abilities aren’t in the class lineup.



    You’re disregarding the HotS abilities because they disprove what you’re arguing here. It is a fact that the Tinker’s HotS abilities are in WoW and it is also a fact that HotS abilities are in multiple WoW classes.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is an assumption based on an omission. If we look at the WC3 hero and prominent Goblins and Gnomes, there’s a rather clear difference between the profession and the “hero” character’s version of engineering.
    Tinker WAS an official hero. It doesn't exist in WoW so therefore it is 100% conjecture on your part. I'll ask you a question that pretty much answers the one you asked me. Where does it say ANYWHERE in the lore that tinkers and engineers are completely separate? Because all the lore points to them being one in the same.

    I'm disregarding HotS abilities because they're utterly irrelevant. They are abilities that function completely different in both games because one is an MMO and the other is a fucking MOBA. You're literally pointing at HotS abilities and saying "SEE THEY HAVE THE SAME NAME THEREFORE THEY ARE THE SAME" and ignoring that they don't function the same at all. You are using bull shit conjecture based on a MOBA for your argument which is so incredibly asinine.

  13. #153
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    19,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Lore already makes that distinction without any gameplay at all.
    I've already demonstrated how it doesn't.

    Without lore to make the distinction, a Necrolord covenant Warrior would be no different from a Death Knight. Both are Warriors who can use Necromancy in gameplay definitions.
    Nonsense, it's the abilities that make those distinctions, not lore. We have a Death Knight class with completely different abilities than a Warrior, that's what makes them separate despite both being warriors.

    The point is this; engineer is an umbrella term just like warrior.


    By gameplay standards, exactly what you said.

    By lore standards, not quite. A Necromancer is more specifically a Spellcaster whose magics manipulate the power of death. That is quite different than a Necrolord Mage or Priest, which are classes who are granted Death related powers but with no lore to substantiate any change in their original classification or archetype.
    Except Blizzard has a rather robust history of creating Necromancers who aren't spellcasters in both Diablo and WoW, so that lore argument simply doesn't pan out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Tinker WAS an official hero. It doesn't exist in WoW so therefore it is 100% conjecture on your part. I'll ask you a question that pretty much answers the one you asked me. Where does it say ANYWHERE in the lore that tinkers and engineers are completely separate? Because all the lore points to them being one in the same.
    What do you think The Tinker's Union, Tinker Town, Tinker's Court, High Tinker, and New Tinkertown are named for? Clearly in Gnome and Goblin culture there is a class of people known as Tinkers and they're highly regarded.


    I'm disregarding HotS abilities because they're utterly irrelevant. They are abilities that function completely different in both games because one is an MMO and the other is a fucking MOBA. You're literally pointing at HotS abilities and saying "SEE THEY HAVE THE SAME NAME THEREFORE THEY ARE THE SAME" and ignoring that they don't function the same at all. You are using bull shit conjecture based on a MOBA for your argument which is so incredibly asinine.
    Uh, the HotS abilities utilized by Gazlowe's Greasemonkeys were pretty much exactly like their MOBA equivalents.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I've already demonstrated how it doesn't.
    Yes, and your demonstration has nothing to do with lore. You said abilities, which is not lore. Lore is story and canon, which abilities are not. Otherwise Warriors are literally Necromancers because of your definition of anyone who uses Necromancy is a Necromancer, and that's clearly false in terms of the lore and canon.


    Except Blizzard has a rather robust history of creating Necromancers who aren't spellcasters in both Diablo and WoW, so that lore argument simply doesn't pan out.
    WoW has Necromancers that are all spellcasters and only spellcasters. Can you name one that is not?

    And I see you mentioned Diablo. if you are talking about a Tinker class in Diablo, maybe you should take that discussion into the Diablo subforums instead of here.

    Uh, the HotS abilities utilized by Gazlowe's Greasemonkeys were pretty much exactly like their MOBA equivalents
    And Gazlowe's Greasemonkeys are all Engineers.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-20 at 01:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I've already demonstrated how it doesn't.



    Nonsense, it's the abilities that make those distinctions, not lore. We have a Death Knight class with completely different abilities than a Warrior, that's what makes them separate despite both being warriors.

    The point is this; engineer is an umbrella term just like warrior.




    Except Blizzard has a rather robust history of creating Necromancers who aren't spellcasters in both Diablo and WoW, so that lore argument simply doesn't pan out.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What do you think The Tinker's Union, Tinker Town, Tinker's Court, High Tinker, and New Tinkertown are named for?




    Uh, the HotS abilities utilized by Gazlowe's Greasemonkeys were pretty much exactly like their MOBA equivalents.
    LOL WHAT?! Stop lying. The only non-caster necromancer style class Blizzard has made is the death knight. All other necromancers in Diablo and the WC games are spellcasters.

    Engineer is not an umbrella term and your logic is the definition of asinine. You are doing so many mental gymnastics that even when you are presented with irrefutable logic, you will still deny it and spew more nonsense. Just admit you're wrong for once. It won't kill you.

    Gazlowe's Greasemonkeys are NPCs so your logic of "they have the same abilities as HotS" is still invalid because a lot of NPCs have abilities that players never get access too. Also, you are just proving that "tinker" is just the goblin/gnome word for engineer. Much like how prelate, vindicator, and sunwalker are all cultural names for paladins.
    Last edited by TheRevenantHero; 2021-07-20 at 01:54 AM.

  16. #156
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    19,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yes, and your demonstration has nothing to do with lore. You said abilities, which is not lore. Lore is story and canon, which abilities are not. Otherwise Warriors are literally Necromancers because of your definition of anyone who uses Necromancy is a Necromancer, and that's clearly false in terms of the lore and canon.
    So Demon Hunters being able to use Metamorphosis, Mages being able to summon Water elementals, and Warlocks summoning demons aren't part of lore?


    WoW has Necromancers that are all spellcasters and only spellcasters. Can you name one that is not?
    Yeah, Arthas.

    And I see you mentioned Diablo. if you are talking about a Tinker class in Diablo, maybe you should take that discussion into the Diablo subforums instead of here.
    I'm talking about Blizzard's general design, which more recently has favored playable Necromancers to be melee based.

    And Gazlowe's Greasemonkeys are all Engineers.
    Just like Paladins are all warriors.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    LOL WHAT?! Stop lying. The only non-caster necromancer style class Blizzard has made is the death knight. All other necromancers in Diablo and the WC games are spellcasters.
    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Xul

    Engineer is not an umbrella term and your logic is the definition of asinine. You are doing so many mental gymnastics that even when you are presented with irrefutable logic, you will still deny it and spew more nonsense. Just admit you're wrong for once. It won't kill you.

    Gazlowe's Greasemonkeys are NPCs so your logic of "they have the same abilities as HotS" is still invalid because a lot of NPCs have abilities that players never get access too.
    Except those NPCs with HotS abilities have a logical class where those abilities can be transferred to. See Sylvanas' HotS abilities now going to the Hunter class. See Thrall's Crash Lightning and Sundering going to the Shaman class. See Illidan's The Hunt going to the Demon Hunter class. Where can Gazlowe's HotS abilities go? They're not going to engineering.

    Further, Tinker and Alchemist remain the only WC3 heroes whose abilities have never appeared in a WoW class.

    Also, you are just proving that "tinker" is just the goblin/gnome word for engineer. Much like how prelate, vindicator, and sunwalker are all cultural names for paladins.
    The difference being that Paladins, Vindicators, Sunwalkers, etc. all have the same abilities. Engineering doesn't contain any abilities from the Tinker hero.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2021-07-20 at 02:12 AM.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So Demon Hunters being able to use Metamorphosis, Mages being able to summon Water elementals, and Warlocks summoning demons aren't part of lore?




    Yeah, Arthas.



    I'm talking about Blizzard's general design, which more recently has favored playable Necromancers to be melee based.



    Just like Paladins are all warriors.

    - - - Updated - - -



    https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Xul



    Except those NPCs with HotS abilities have a logical class where those abilities can be transferred to. See Sylvanas' HotS abilities now going to the Hunter class. See Thrall's Crash Lightning and Sundering going to the Shaman class. See Illidan's The Hunt going to the Demon Hunter class. Where can Gazlowe's HotS abilities go? They're not going to engineering.

    Further, Tinker and Alchemist remain the only WC3 heroes whose abilities have never appeared in a WoW class.



    The difference being that Paladins, Vindicators, Sunwalkers, etc. all have the same abilities. Engineering doesn't contain any abilities from the Tinker hero.
    Ah yes. Allow me to completely disregard the HotS because they have Garrosh as a tank despite clearly being a Fury warrior and Tyrande as a healer when in WoW she has been all about damage. Stop fucking using HotS as an example, holy shit. And notice how I mentioned Diablo and WC but instead of admitting you were wrong, you mention a different(shitty) game.

    And you can say they have a logical class all the way but HotS abilities and how the NPCs are represented are not the same as they are in their normal games. And there's a reason pocket factory and robo-goblin haven't been ported over. Pocket factory is a fucking nightmare and I don't see it ever being in game. Robo-goblin literally turns you into a fucking robot so I don't see that happening either.

    And Engineering has rockets and you can build a mech mount. Also, lore dictates tinkers and engineers are the exact same thing.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So Demon Hunters being able to use Metamorphosis, Mages being able to summon Water elementals, and Warlocks summoning demons aren't part of lore?
    Unless it's part of the lore, not specifically, no. Blizzard can abstract the gameplay however they like, which is why we have Warlocks who don't summon demons at all portrayed in Warcraft 3, like the Stormreavers who actually use Thunder-based attacks and summon, or the Blackrock Warlocks who use Blood Lust and Firebolt, and otherwise do not summon any demons.

    A Warlock is defined by the lore, and the gameplay is simply an abstraction of that. It wasn't until WoW where they decided to make demon summoning a significant component of their lore, whereas it was not before. Gul'dan, for example, was not traditionally known for summoning demonic minions, and that is even reflected in his gameplay in Heroes of the Storm which has zero demon summoning in his gameplay kit.

    Yeah, Arthas.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Arthas_Menethil

    I don't see Necromancer listed there at all, do you? He's not a necromancer, and never has been. He's always been a Death Knight, and the Lich King, and his powers of necromancy are drawn from his Runeblade and the Helm of Domination, not through spellcasting.

    Lorewise, he was never a Necromancer.

    I'm talking about Blizzard's general design, which more recently has favored playable Necromancers to be melee based.
    And gameplay is just an abstraction of lore. They could have Necromancers that fly in the game, and it doesn't mean it's part of a Necromancer's lore to be able to fly. The lore is what defines that, not gameplay.

    Just like Paladins are all warriors.
    Yes, the difference being Paladins are a Warrior of Light, whereas Tinkers are literally synonymous with Engineer with no specified differences between them. All of Gazlowe's abilities in Heroes of the Storm are abstracted as Engineer abilities in WoW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  19. #159
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    19,134
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Ah yes. Allow me to completely disregard the HotS because they have Garrosh as a tank despite clearly being a Fury warrior and Tyrande as a healer when in WoW she has been all about damage. Stop fucking using HotS as an example, holy shit. And notice how I mentioned Diablo and WC but instead of admitting you were wrong, you mention a different(shitty) game.
    The point is that Garrosh's abilities can easily go into the Warrior class. Tyrande's abilities can easily go into the Priest and Hunter classes.

    Where could Gazlowe's abilities go? They're not going to engineering.

    And you can say they have a logical class all the way but HotS abilities and how the NPCs are represented are not the same as they are in their normal games. And there's a reason pocket factory and robo-goblin haven't been ported over. Pocket factory is a fucking nightmare and I don't see it ever being in game. Robo-goblin literally turns you into a fucking robot so I don't see that happening either.
    Pocket Factory isn't a HotS ability.

    Robo Goblin doesn't turn you into a robot. It enhances the power of your claw pack. That said, even the WC3 version is simply piloting a mech. How is either an anathema to WoW's class structure?

    And Engineering has rockets and you can build a mech mount. Also, lore dictates tinkers and engineers are the exact same thing.
    If lore dictated that Tinkers and the profession were the same thing, they would have the same abilities. They don't. It's like saying Paladins and Warriors are the same because they're "warriors".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Unless it's part of the lore, not specifically, no.
    Except Metamorphosis is part of Illidan's lore. So again, how is metamorphosis not part of Demon Hunter lore?


    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Arthas_Menethil

    I don't see Necromancer listed there at all, do you? He's not a necromancer, and never has been. He's always been a Death Knight, and the Lich King, and his powers of necromancy are drawn from his Runeblade and the Helm of Domination, not through spellcasting.

    Lorewise, he was never a Necromancer.
    He raised a skeletal dragon and an army of skeleton warriors in the WotLK cinematic. How is he not a necromancer?

    Yes, the difference being Paladins are a Warrior of Light..
    But they're still all warriors.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The point is that Garrosh's abilities can easily go into the Warrior class. Tyrande's abilities can easily go into the Priest and Hunter classes.

    Where could Gazlowe's abilities go? They're not going to engineering.



    Pocket Factory isn't a HotS ability.

    Robo Goblin doesn't turn you into a robot. It enhances the power of your claw pack. That said, even the WC3 version is simply piloting a mech. How is either an anathema to WoW's class structure?



    If lore dictated that Tinkers and the profession were the same thing, they would have the same abilities. They don't. It's like saying Paladins and Warriors are the same because they're "warriors".
    The lazer, xplodium charge, and gravobomb are all things engineers can do. Furthermore, there is absolutely no fucking depth to the description of HotS abilities so saying they have equals in WoW is speculation AT BEST.

    Pocket Factory is from WC3, something you also use as "evidence". and Robo goblin DID turn you into a robot in WC3. "The Tinker becomes mechanical, rendering him immune to stun, most offensive spells, and several beneficial spells." You don't even read the shit you use in your arguments lmfao.

    You are continuing to fucking reach. The lore separates warriors and paladins pretty distinctly. But when it comes to lore, engineers and tinkers have no separation. They are the exact same thing.

    Oh and Arthas didn't raise all those undead. Ner'zhul and the artifacts Arthas was wearing did.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •