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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    You don't necessarily have to develop stuff for a specific Linux distro. As a matter of fact, what Valve is doing is trying to encourage compatibility with Proton (i.e. their spin of WINE), which is distro-agnostic.
    Yes you do. The moment you make your product "linux compatible" you have to support it. That alone adds a loads of work to both customer support and development.

    Not only that, you also have to put a lot more work into initial development as well.
    OpenGL was garbage - yes it was (and still is) until vulkan came around, devs simply didn't bother and used DX.

    And when a consumer sees something like this: https://www.protondb.com/
    The choice is obvious.

    While its much easier to make xplatform app thanks to chromium based software, its absolute nightmare when it comes to 3D stuff.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    How to use simcraft
    Results when you get when you understand simcraft
    PS doesn't count, it's different game

  2. #182
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    On one hand, the idea seems solid

    On the other hand, Valve has an awful story with hardware
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    It's just Arch with an overlay and tailored to run on the Steam Deck hardware. Valve didn't do anything to fragment the Linux community. Anything compiled to run on Arch will work just fine on the Steam Deck (within the confines of the hardware).

    There honestly isn't a ton of effort needed to compile something to run on a different Linux distro. And having binaries in just two types (deb and rpm... and if you'te using Arch you can also go the aur route) will let you cover the overwhelming majority of Linux users. All they are are source code compiled into an easily installable format. Is it extra work for game makers? Sure, technically. But it's a pretty trivial task compared to everything else that goes into it. Is it worth it for most game makers? Not really, the market share is that low. But there is a chance that the Steam Deck will help change that.
    That is only what you think, while reality is like that in this topic. You have a problem -> support will say it's not supported.

    Devs don't really want to handle the clusterfuck. There can be even a difference within the same distributions. Simply because of 5 different version and possibility that you might have some software that is somehow interfering with it. It's just not worth for 1% of marketshare.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    How to use simcraft
    Results when you get when you understand simcraft
    PS doesn't count, it's different game

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Lots of people don't just play the Switch for Nintendo's IP's alone
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...more%20rows%20

    Ah yes look at all those multiplatform games on the list...

    Oh wait...

    Its like 90% Nintendo published games...

    What the hell dude did you seriously make this post? People buy a Switch to play Nintendo games, that is by and large a fact and the sales numbers on games show this.

  5. #185
    Cheapest steam deck is fine, best mobile steam link machine possible, with a beastly PC at home and solid 5g mobile internet (yay europe) self-streaming is absolutely a thing that can easily grow here.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    On one hand, the idea seems solid

    On the other hand, Valve has an awful story with hardware
    going to be an expensive joke if this thing develops joystick issues after 6 months, an all to common issue lately.

    at least with the switch and consoles you can just use a second controller while you deal with warranty, on this thing you're going to have to ship the entire device which is no doubt going to take 6+ weeks.

    fan noise also a concern when the thing gets older.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    On one hand, the idea seems solid

    On the other hand, Valve has an awful story with hardware
    That they do.
    But it always goes cheap on sale once they discontinue it

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by RuneDK View Post
    it's weird that they released an OLED version without increasing the specs though. At least imo.
    Its because they dont have to, they could sell a can of shit and slap a mario sticker on it and people would buy it.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    That is only what you think, while reality is like that in this topic. You have a problem -> support will say it's not supported.

    Devs don't really want to handle the clusterfuck. There can be even a difference within the same distributions. Simply because of 5 different version and possibility that you might have some software that is somehow interfering with it. It's just not worth for 1% of marketshare.
    Which distros are you thinking of that have differences when it comes to running the same binaries? The only difference should be whether or not dependencies are included in the distro by default or not, and if not can be handled by the package manager.

    Do gaming companies want the hassle? Maybe not, but if this device sells well enough they are a lot more inclined to consider it. If they do, creating packages for Debian/Ununtu users and Red Hat/SUSE/Fedora users is pretty trivial. Linux gaming will almost certainly never come anywhere near Windows gaming, but something like the Steam Deck is certainly a going to give it a boost.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...more%20rows%20

    Ah yes look at all those multiplatform games on the list...

    Oh wait...

    Its like 90% Nintendo published games...

    What the hell dude did you seriously make this post? People buy a Switch to play Nintendo games, that is by and large a fact and the sales numbers on games show this.
    While I agree that first party is the bread and butter of the Swotch. and well, not many people buy one for amazing third party AAA titles...

    It also has a metric ton of great indie games available, which is what I mostly use mine for.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Valve is missing a trick here. They should just prioritise preorders based on hours played in the steam library. That way scalpers can't do anything.



    That's already lucky as I'm only seeing preorders for €399. A €349 Switch would be $412.

    The only point I'm making here is that we never get a straight conversion from dollar to euro. Maybe it's import duty or something but Europeans always seem to be getting shafted.
    We never get US prices, because in the US you don't get those prices either. Those are brutto prices, VAT comes on top. Europe displays netto prices, with taxes already included. Yes, it's weird.

  11. #191
    I don't pretend to speak for everyone, but just personally, I bought my switch to play Nintendo's games. the portability was a secondary concern; whilst I've used it in portable mode from time to time it's been pretty infrequent.

    Now, I could use the Steam Deck to emulate the Switch games, but I don't want to as emulation is still pretty fiddly and frankly I can afford to buy the games, it's not a big issue. If I did want to use emulation I'd rather just use my actual PC.

    For every other game, my actual PC will be massively superior.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    Which distros are you thinking of that have differences when it comes to running the same binaries? The only difference should be whether or not dependencies are included in the distro by default or not, and if not can be handled by the package manager.

    Do gaming companies want the hassle? Maybe not, but if this device sells well enough they are a lot more inclined to consider it. If they do, creating packages for Debian/Ununtu users and Red Hat/SUSE/Fedora users is pretty trivial. Linux gaming will almost certainly never come anywhere near Windows gaming, but something like the Steam Deck is certainly a going to give it a boost.

    Thats the thing with linux, while their package dependency idea is good on paper, its nightmare as it barely has software isolation. Each time we do upgrade on our linux server (ubuntu) we simply buy another instance, set it up and discontinue old one because nobody, absolutely nobody in company would even consider trying to upgrade it (like 16->18->20). And it only has a couple of server things. Pray you don't have any custom repos set up and pray those are updated.

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/1...pendency-hell/

    "The only difference should be" is pure fairytale. As a user I dont care about all that weird stuff i just want apps to work. This just isn't the case with linux.

    As a developer I don't want to spend time fucking around and writing 1000 IFs for each system just in case there is some kind of difference so no wonder people developed over years VM frameworks/languages like java/js/c#/python etc. Whenever I want to make xplatform app I go electron or similar cause not only the backend layer is fully standarized, fronted is as well.

    As for 3D engines like unity/unreal their support is still limited and you are still likely to encounter more issues. Unity only recently released editor for linux 2 years ago that is "supposedly fully working". Unreal supposedly supports linux but again, its up to developers to decide that.

    Even if steam deck gots somewhat popular it isn't going to give it a boost, maybe to mobile gaming. It's a bit different market than PC gaming.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    How to use simcraft
    Results when you get when you understand simcraft
    PS doesn't count, it's different game

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Thats the thing with linux, while their package dependency idea is good on paper, its nightmare as it barely has software isolation. Each time we do upgrade on our linux server (ubuntu) we simply buy another instance, set it up and discontinue old one because nobody, absolutely nobody in company would even consider trying to upgrade it (like 16->18->20). And it only has a couple of server things. Pray you don't have any custom repos set up and pray those are updated.

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/1...pendency-hell/

    "The only difference should be" is pure fairytale. As a user I dont care about all that weird stuff i just want apps to work. This just isn't the case with linux.

    As a developer I don't want to spend time fucking around and writing 1000 IFs for each system just in case there is some kind of difference so no wonder people developed over years VM frameworks/languages like java/js/c#/python etc. Whenever I want to make xplatform app I go electron or similar cause not only the backend layer is fully standarized, fronted is as well.

    As for 3D engines like unity/unreal their support is still limited and you are still likely to encounter more issues. Unity only recently released editor for linux 2 years ago that is "supposedly fully working". Unreal supposedly supports linux but again, its up to developers to decide that.

    Even if steam deck gots somewhat popular it isn't going to give it a boost, maybe to mobile gaming. It's a bit different market than PC gaming.
    I think we've strayed a little off topic with the Linux discussion (at least with how comparability with applications and packages works).

    In regards to the Steam Deck though, I think it will all come down to money. If Valve incentives publishers, and they sell quite a few of the things, publishers will definitely notice and branch out to sell games for the platform. Will we see companies like EA and Ubisoft do it? Probably not. But smaller publishers that are tied into Steam? Sure, I think we will. Even if the version they produce is only compatible with the Steam Deck (maning an Arch version), it would be an incredible step in getting more gaming available on Linux, which is a big win for consumers as a whole.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I think we've strayed a little off topic with the Linux discussion (at least with how comparability with applications and packages works).

    In regards to the Steam Deck though, I think it will all come down to money. If Valve incentives publishers, and they sell quite a few of the things, publishers will definitely notice and branch out to sell games for the platform. Will we see companies like EA and Ubisoft do it? Probably not. But smaller publishers that are tied into Steam? Sure, I think we will. Even if the version they produce is only compatible with the Steam Deck (maning an Arch version), it would be an incredible step in getting more gaming available on Linux, which is a big win for consumers as a whole.
    Highly questionable statement, 75% of the market doesn't really care about Linux and we just want a product that works. For most of us that's Windows en MacOS.
    Also why would I as a developer bother porting my game to Linux if proton does it for me?

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Highly questionable statement, 75% of the market doesn't really care about Linux and we just want a product that works. For most of us that's Windows en MacOS.
    Also why would I as a developer bother porting my game to Linux if proton does it for me?
    But people are buying the Steam Deck, which is running Linux. This is a product that they will want to 'just work'.

    Because Proton is not perfect and while it lets users run a ton of games, the experience is not always flawless. A native version would certainly be better. Because since Valve is in the market of selling hardware specifically with the goal of selling more software through Steam, it's in their besst interest to have more apps that natively run on that hardware. If it's in their best interest, they can certainly make it in the best interest of developers that are heavily tied into their platform.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Its because they dont have to, they could sell a can of shit and slap a mario sticker on it and people would buy it.
    that is so very true.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    On one hand, the idea seems solid

    On the other hand, Valve has an awful story with hardware
    Do they? The Steam Link has been in my living room for 6 years & hasn't put a foot wrong. The Steam Controller is very good IF you're willing to put the time into it - If not, it's a waste of time. The Index is also as good as it gets in the consumer-level VR space at the moment, though the controller drift issue, while seemingly common on every controller out there, is not really excusable given the cost of them.

    That said, the Steam Machines were an absolute failure I guess you could argue that the development of Steam OS starting all those years ago lead us to where we are now with the Steam Deck, so maybe it wasn't all for nought. & at least anyone who was mad enough to buy a Steam Machine could just install Windows on it in the end

    Anyway, I've got a December reservation, & I'm really looking forward to it. I don't expect it to be perfect, but this is a product category I've wanted to take off for a while, & Valve have enough going for them to make a real go of this. I don't consider it much of a Switch competitor though - I think its more of its own thing entirely. I've been scratching my head over a Switch for years, but the price of games always put me off in the end (although I'll undoubtedly borrow my brothers for Bayo 3 when that launches). I like that I can buy this & get the majority (I don't expect 100%) of my 4-digit library right away without having to pay ridiculous prices/rebuying indies I already have/love. Looks mad comfortable as well, coming from someone who loved the Wii U pad but struggled with the cramp inducing Vita.

  18. #198
    Can it play Skyrim?

  19. #199
    It was not the initial intent on Nintendo's part, but one thing they got right was detachable controllers.
    What is my financial loss if the controls on this device break?
    For Switch the cost is (at most) $60 for a new set of controllers.
    Will I need to shell out $400 or take the device to a specialty shop?

  20. #200
    Scarab Lord Greevir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leyre View Post
    Can it play Skyrim?
    Of course it can! At 800p 30fps!

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