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  1. #21
    Survival has been the least (or second least) played spec every tier since it was released. This is not a coincidence and it is not 'normal' for a spec to consistently see no play.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  2. #22
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    I run with a survival hunter and he performs very well. It's way more than good enough to achieve a 2k score, and that's all that matters. If you care about anything past that, then you should already know that you don't really get to pick/choose what classes are viable for "high" keys and have been at the whims of the developers since people started competing at a "high" level
    M+ is different than raiding. Survival is fine, even good, for M+ and PvP but nobody wants more melee specs in raids.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by XMD7007 View Post
    Survival Hunters are busy with something else at the moment:



    Current top rated players of the 2s Ladder on arenamate.net, not showing healers (18.07.2021).
    For reference, here's the 2400+ breakdown for Hunters in 2v2:



    Survival is only ahead at 2500+, at which point it's just 9 Hunters total. The BM Hunter also has a higher win ratio; he's just done fewer matches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I think it definitely needs some other sort of defensive CD, and some sort of utility that ranged hunters don't have, like an AoE silence or something.
    Or they should cut their losses and make it a ranged Hunter as it was and as it should be. You're not going to successfully bandaid away the inherent problems with having a melee Hunter spec.

  4. #24
    With respect to M+ survival (alongside feral shockingly) is still the least played spec of all dps and the least played hunter spec. I think if we use our thought goo we might be able to discern the important factor here.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  5. #25
    Field Marshal XMD7007's Avatar
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    I suggest AoE feign death in a 15 yrd radius, that would be something entirely new, lol.

    It would clear most debuffs on all players if the PvP and legendary effects are worked in, it would also interrupt all casts and channels on friendly players and it would strip the aggro levels from everyone, tank included. This could be so much fun, especially in raid finder :-)
    Last edited by XMD7007; 2021-07-19 at 10:14 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by XMD7007 View Post
    I suggest AoE feign death in a 15 yrd radius, that would be something entirely new, lol.

    It would clear most debuffs on all players if the PvP and legendary effects are worked in, it would also interrupt all casts and channels on friendly players and it would strip the aggro levels from everyone, tank included. This could be so much fun, especially in raid finder :-)
    I feel like the troll potential for resetting fights where everyone has to be close together would be very high.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Bepples View Post
    For reference, here's the 2400+ breakdown for Hunters in 2v2:



    Survival is only ahead at 2500+, at which point it's just 9 Hunters total. The BM Hunter also has a higher win ratio; he's just done fewer matches.



    Or they should cut their losses and make it a ranged Hunter as it was and as it should be. You're not going to successfully bandaid away the inherent problems with having a melee Hunter spec.
    I think if you stack enough bandaids on too then you might eventually make it more popular.

    I have said before and it bears repeating. If there ever was a spec I think should have all the utility I would absolutely suggest that spec to be Survival. At the very base level it has always been about being resourceful.

    Give Survival hunters all the utility. Baseline Camouflage, 30% extra base move speed, short Exhilaration cooldown made shorter so you use it often. I mean why not give it the same grappling hook Outlaw rogue has?

    Survival is literally called Survival. The blurb explaining it says it is a rugged trapper who excels in using every resource available, and yet when it comes to utility it has the ability to sprint, a paltry collection of extremely niche traps and a heal that is outdone by Rogues' simple ability to carry around an extra set of potions.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    DPS is simply not going to be enough to make Survival viable again. What it lacks is a certain something that it actually brings to the table.

    The way raids work means that being ranged is at some level enough for that certain something, and when Survival additionally can't even bring something like that it is no wonder it gets left out.
    I mean honestly, it isn't even particularly durable. Even rogues bring more survivability and utility to the the table in raids.
    Raids generally favors range coz of mechanics like spread, AoE etc. Also other melee brings more than just DPS, rouge for more interupts, Warrior bring battle shout, Ench shammy from totems Wind furry buff, WW monk bring Physical buff, DH bring Magic damage buff darkness, DK brings battle rez, AMC, and grape, Pally bring arua and BoP, BoS and feral bring roar. What does SV have? Nothing for the group.

  9. #29
    Oof, even in Heroic Survival is the least played spec behind affi and Feral.
    What a time to be alive.
    On current Bloodmallet profiles Surv only sims 100dps over MM. Good luck ever getting to raid outside of being literal Thyminde as Surv.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    This thread is a nice reminder that Blizzard can do something nice and still get absolutely shit on for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    It rewards cowardly and low-skillcap gameplay.

  10. #30
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XMD7007 View Post
    I suggest AoE feign death in a 15 yrd radius, that would be something entirely new, lol.

    It would clear most debuffs on all players if the PvP and legendary effects are worked in, it would also interrupt all casts and channels on friendly players and it would strip the aggro levels from everyone, tank included. This could be so much fun, especially in raid finder :-)
    This idea would so much fun on many levels too.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by DazManianDevil View Post
    Oof, even in Heroic Survival is the least played spec behind affi and Feral.
    What a time to be alive.
    On current Bloodmallet profiles Surv only sims 100dps over MM. Good luck ever getting to raid outside of being literal Thyminde as Surv.
    Just a reminder to the melee SV stans in the thread that at times when ranged SV had this sort of tuning (e.g. Siege of Orgrimmar) it would without question end up being as the most popular Hunter spec and one of the most popular specs in the entire game.

    It takes true, deep delusion to still be clinging to melee SV at this point and pretending that it was a good change for the spec.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Bepples View Post
    Just a reminder to the melee SV stans in the thread that at times when ranged SV had this sort of tuning (e.g. Siege of Orgrimmar) it would without question end up being as the most popular Hunter spec and one of the most popular specs in the entire game.

    It takes true, deep delusion to still be clinging to melee SV at this point and pretending that it was a good change for the spec.
    Just rename melee SV to "Tracker" and make it the dedicated pvp spec, bring back ranged Survival.
    Focus dump with Explosive shot with 2 charges, Lock n Load refreshes a charge, build focus with Steady shot while maintaining Serpent sting and Black arrow, black arrow ticks causing lock n load, maybe throw in Chim shot for flavor and boom, we're back and I don't have to play BM anymore.
    Altho having 28 second pull timers again would be a drag
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    This thread is a nice reminder that Blizzard can do something nice and still get absolutely shit on for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    It rewards cowardly and low-skillcap gameplay.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bepples View Post
    Just a reminder to the melee SV stans in the thread that at times when ranged SV had this sort of tuning (e.g. Siege of Orgrimmar) it would without question end up being as the most popular Hunter spec and one of the most popular specs in the entire game.

    It takes true, deep delusion to still be clinging to melee SV at this point and pretending that it was a good change for the spec.
    Also note that they felt they needed to nerf SV damage below that of tanks in order to make people stop playing the spec. Making it a poorly performing DPS spec wasn't enough, it had to not function as a DPS spec in order to force players out of it.

    As an aside, it's good to see you're still around fighting the good fight Bepples.

  14. #34
    Elemental Lord Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joti View Post
    Also note that they felt they needed to nerf SV damage below that of tanks in order to make people stop playing the spec. Making it a poorly performing DPS spec wasn't enough, it had to not function as a DPS spec in order to force players out of it.

    As an aside, it's good to see you're still around fighting the good fight Bepples.
    I don't really get why they needed to nerf Survival and Demonology to the ground in 6.2.

    Sure, both were getting major revamps in 7.0 (one more succesfull than the other), but why that meant people shouldn't play their old iteration in HFC before the changes came?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    I don't really get why they needed to nerf Survival and Demonology to the ground in 6.2.

    Sure, both were getting major revamps in 7.0 (one more succesfull than the other), but why that meant people shouldn't play their old iteration in HFC before the changes came?
    The idea is that if players were not currently playing the spec just before the rework, Blizz could do their major revamp with less outcry and thus have less pushback against the changes. In their view, fewer players actively playing it meant fewer people complaining about changes.

    It obviously didn't really work, especially in the case of Survival. But that was the idea. It also neglected that some players actively used to enjoy multiple specs within the class and didn't mind swapping between Survival and one of the other specs. So, not all players who complain(ed) were strictly Survival hunters.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Bepples View Post
    Or they should cut their losses and make it a ranged Hunter as it was and as it should be. You're not going to successfully bandaid away the inherent problems with having a melee Hunter spec.
    I'm a big proponent of making the Survival Hunter, about surviving. They can keep it melee, but I wouldn't mind a mail gear tank spec and think that would be pretty cool.

    As for explosive shot...I don't like the new MM talent version at all. Don't see why MM can't have a Dot build or a burst build through talents.

  17. #37
    IMO, they should make SV a tanking spec. Tenacity pets could be used to soak damage from us, Ferocity could increase damage, and Cunning could do something PVP-related. (I also think all pure DPS classes should have a tank or healing spec, but that's just me).

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