Survival didn't make the Cut

[aceperson]

When did they ever promise to give SV a Death Grip?

when they first announced the surv revamp WAY back when at the legion reveal. never got to open testing though.

[Bepples]

when they first announced the surv revamp WAY back when at the legion reveal. never got to open testing though.

I sincerely doubt you're remembering this correctly.

[aceperson]

I sincerely doubt you're remembering this correctly.

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/legion-...-249023?page=2

10th bullet point. granted, it was very buried so it's probably impossible for someone who doesn't know about this to find it with an easy google search.

"Survival Hunters, who are melee in Legion, get Harpoon ability to draw mobs towards them."

[InflaterMouse]

Maybe Survival Hunters need another defensive CD or something..?

In all seriousness, from someone who mained hunters for years, SV when it was still a ranged dot spec, was by far the most engaging and fun spec of all 3. I was actually sad when it fell below armor pen MM in WOTLK. When geared with talents and gear rolling it was so much fun. The totally fked hunters taking it away from hunters and adding a clunky herp derp melee spec.

[Bepples]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/legion-...-249023?page=2

10th bullet point. granted, it was very buried so it's probably impossible for someone who doesn't know about this to find it with an easy google search.

"Survival Hunters, who are melee in Legion, get Harpoon ability to draw mobs towards them."

I found some commentary on it on Bendak's blog as well. It also refers to Elvine's tweet which isn't accessible any more. I'd like to find what exactly was said at Dragon Con in 2015 because if they really did plan on Harpoon being a grip in September 2015 that was already gone by November; at Blizzcon they revealed Harpoon's current design.

[aceperson]

I found some commentary on it on Bendak's blog as well. It also refers to Elvine's tweet which isn't accessible any more. I'd like to find what exactly was said at Dragon Con in 2015 because if they really did plan on Harpoon being a grip in September 2015 that was already gone by November; at Blizzcon they revealed Harpoon's current design.

legion wasn't announced at blizzcon. blizzard was reeling from the crapfest that was wod so they took the risky move and announced legion at a different convention. i believe it is the only expansion to have done so. been playing since wrath so that's why i know a lot of this. i do make the occasional mistake, but i've mained hunter for over 10 years. i don't make many mistakes when it comes to hunter.

[khazmodan]

In all seriousness, from someone who mained hunters for years, SV when it was still a ranged dot spec, was by far the most engaging and fun spec of all 3. I was actually sad when it fell below armor pen MM in WOTLK. When geared with talents and gear rolling it was so much fun. The totally fked hunters taking it away from hunters and adding a clunky herp derp melee spec.

Totally agree, I used to love the Survival spec because it was sooo much more fun than bore mastery, even though I was jealous of the pets.

[Bepples]

legion wasn't announced at blizzcon. blizzard was reeling from the crapfest that was wod so they took the risky move and announced legion at a different convention. i believe it is the only expansion to have done so. been playing since wrath so that's why i know a lot of this. i do make the occasional mistake, but i've mained hunter for over 10 years. i don't make many mistakes when it comes to hunter.

Yes which was why I said Dragon Con in September 2015 and Blizzcon in November 2015. The point is if they were really planning on Harpoon being a grip that didn't even make it to the Blizzcon preview just a 3 months after Legion's reveal let alone alpha. SV would have been in a really bad state without Harpoon as a gap closer + root anyway (although any version of melee SV would be in a bad state no matter what).

[aceperson]

Yes which was why I said Dragon Con in September 2015 and Blizzcon in November 2015. The point is if they were really planning on Harpoon being a grip that didn't even make it to the Blizzcon preview just a 3 months after Legion's reveal let alone alpha. SV would have been in a really bad state without Harpoon as a gap closer + root anyway (although any version of melee SV would be in a bad state no matter what).

i was just proving my point that the original idea was for survival to have a death grip and we didn't find out that was scrapped until alpha came out.

[InflaterMouse]

Totally agree, I used to love the Survival spec because it was sooo much more fun than bore mastery, even though I was jealous of the pets.

We were server first on 25 man heroic and about halfway into progression all the hunters and warriors swapped to armor pen builds which were absolutely amazing in PVP but so boring in raids. It was strong dps, actually miss armor pen as a stat.

I remember when I hit cap on the hunter, mix of 25 man and 25 man heroic gear from head to toe and getting CS 1 shots in pvp and arena lol was so much fun.

[KrayZ33]

Yes which was why I said Dragon Con in September 2015 and Blizzcon in November 2015. The point is if they were really planning on Harpoon being a grip that didn't even make it to the Blizzcon preview just a 3 months after Legion's reveal let alone alpha. SV would have been in a really bad state without Harpoon as a gap closer + root anyway (although any version of melee SV would be in a bad state no matter what).

The grip would be a straight up improvement compared to the gap closer, both in PvE and PvP scenarios.
Not sure why you think it's worse, even if you only include Legion. Maybe with the glyph that would allow you to target where you want to throw your harpoon, but certainly not without.

Death Grip pulls the noob towards you, Harpoon pulls the noob towards the target.

Just saying, as I found that statement rather odd.
Deathgrip is really useful in PvE, unbelievably so. And it's killing in PVP as well.
I see no benefit in getting yourself onto the target compared to getting the target to you, which you can control way better.
The only benefit you have with Harpoon right now is that you can get back into the game when you have been thrown of the edge in some raid encounter or something, from a pushback.

Man... I sure wish we would have a "come 'ere Harpoon"

[Bepples]

The grip would be a straight up improvement compared to the gap closer, both in PvE and PvP scenarios.
Not sure why you think it's worse, even if you only include Legion. Maybe with the glyph that would allow you to target where you want to throw your harpoon, but certainly not without.

Death Grip pulls the noob towards you, Harpoon pulls the noob towards the target.

Just saying, as I found that statement rather odd.
Deathgrip is really useful in PvE, unbelievably so. And it's killing in PVP as well.
I see no benefit in getting yourself onto the target compared to getting the target to you, which you can control way better.
The only benefit you have with Harpoon right now is that you can get back into the game when you have been thrown of the edge in some raid encounter or something, from a pushback.

Man... I sure wish we would have a "come 'ere Harpoon"

Early Legion SV didn't have Disengage so you would have had no gap closer. Also the root is really important for trap setups in arena and has been proven to be a highly important utility of Survival. A grip would be a compelling PvE utility though; probably worth not having a gap closer.

[KrayZ33]

Early Legion SV didn't have Disengage so you would have had no gap closer. Also the root is really important for trap setups in arena and has been proven to be a highly important utility of Survival. A grip would be a compelling PvE utility though; probably worth not having a gap closer.

Yeah but does it matter if you close the gap by moving towards them (which is unfavorable in any PVP scenario because worst case scenario, you are jumping into their camp and setups) compared to getting the targets to your setup (which is very favorable). The root effect can work with the "death grip"-version as well.
Pretty sure DKs had it like that too in the past (with a stun), so it wouldn't even be something new.

[Bepples]

Yeah but does it matter if you close the gap by moving towards them (which is unfavorable in any PVP scenario because worst case scenario, you are jumping into their camp and setups) compared to getting the targets to your setup (which is very favorable). The root effect can work with the "death grip"-version as well.
Pretty sure DKs had it like that too in the past (with a stun), so it wouldn't even be something new.

It could work if it rooted the target once it landed.

[Stricks]

Make survival a tank spec. Shared health with pet somehow. Gameplay is managing tanking between pet and self, switching which the enemy is attacking. Stacking debuff that can be cleared in interesting ways similar to an anti-stagger for how long each entity is tanking.

Would be interesting gameplay for sure and would bring the utility of being able to tank in two places at once. The debuff would ensure that one SV tank couldn't be as good as two regular tanks, but in a pinch a very well geared one could possibly get by trash and such.

[threads]

Make survival a tank spec. Shared health with pet somehow. Gameplay is managing tanking between pet and self, switching which the enemy is attacking. Stacking debuff that can be cleared in interesting ways similar to an anti-stagger for how long each entity is tanking.

Would be interesting gameplay for sure and would bring the utility of being able to tank in two places at once. The debuff would ensure that one SV tank couldn't be as good as two regular tanks, but in a pinch a very well geared one could possibly get by trash and such.

can u people stop already with the tank spec meme this is how we got stuck with a useless melee spec to begin with.

[Makaloff]

Make survival a tank spec. Shared health with pet somehow. Gameplay is managing tanking between pet and self, switching which the enemy is attacking. Stacking debuff that can be cleared in interesting ways similar to an anti-stagger for how long each entity is tanking.

Would be interesting gameplay for sure and would bring the utility of being able to tank in two places at once. The debuff would ensure that one SV tank couldn't be as good as two regular tanks, but in a pinch a very well geared one could possibly get by trash and such.

i dont like current iteration of survival but making it a tank specc would make it even worse, you would piss off both the MSV and RSV people (and seriously, hunter got 0 to do with tanking, we dont even wear plate and we use pets. besides, we have enought tanks in this game already and all of them are in a decent spot, so please stop trying to ruin the hunter class even more)