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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I am not necessarily agreeing / sharing those opinions, but i think those are the biggest factors.
    I think you nailed it though there are a few reasons I miss this:

    It breaks a fairly 1 dimensional type of character progression

    I like having "tools" in a game, especially when they compliment your class rather than are just part of it. For example, my rogue had a grinding set in vanilla that consisted of dual crusader, heroism trinket and either 8/8 bloodfang or 2/8 bonescythe. This definitely enabled things that were not usually possible like soloing a fair chunk of BRD, for example. The warrior equivalent would be diamond flask.

    Related to the above, by having these things around they "realise" items in the game. Like a rogue brewing poisons it makes it distinct from say, mark of the wild. Now it is just a buff, like every other buff you have ever had. An even worse offense is what they have done with weapons. Normalised speed and now every single attack in the game is bloodthirst which ignores your weapon completely, thus vaporising the idea that you actually have weapons at all.

    It is a pretty massive shift in design philosophy whereby pure convenience overrides any sense of actually being in a world where objects have meaning.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    2hour questchain = unpleasant grind?
    The base level of the cloak was sufficient for N'zoth, the MC protection was the crucial part.

    I think the cloak is also a poor comparison because unlike resistance gear, it was a pretty binary thing.

    You didn't wear the cloak on N'zoth = dead, no exceptions.
    You didn't die on pull in Classic if you didn't wear any resistance in those resistance specific fights.
    I'm far from an expert here, but wouldn't you have to upgrade the cloak in order to get the corruption resistance in order to equip high corruption azerite armor? I mean, above and beyond needing to upgrade the cloak for ilvl purposes.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    Bosses made out of fire should be immune to fire damage. It's a standard in almost every RPG ever, and we are playing an RPG after all. But because of casuals and players with a similar mindset to you, that is no longer how this works. And part of this is still in the game. Physical damage is reduced by the amount of armor you have or a boss has. But no other element is treated this way. Why? Because people cry a lot.

    Gameplay should never affect the lore is what you meant to say.
    In that case monks should take damage any time they hit a boss made out of fire. Weapons should break on hitting the fire boss. Shape shifted druids should take extra damage cause fur. Plate and mail armor? Heavy DoT because your armor is super heated.

    Still want realism in your boss fights?

  4. #44
    Scarab Lord Darththeo's Avatar
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    A lot of RPGs in general, not just MMOs, are going to more and more simplified stats to streamline gearing.

    It isn't really a laziness aspect, it is to simplify gearing. They could easily continue to have resist gear if they wanted, it is just it just another number for players to balance for encounters. Also, it limits design choices for dungeons/raids. There are not many people who like juggling gear each encounter, so design will be forced to one damage type or a limited number.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Lore should never get in the way of gameplay.
    Yeah, god forbid the game have any interesting mechanics in it that are tied to lore

    fucking lmao

  6. #46
    Its kinda funny as people didn't want more raid preparation so they removed it all, but then added a slew of raid preparation in systems galore by Legion.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  7. #47
    The Unstoppable Force
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    Oh yeah, nothing says "good gameplay", like removing amazing gear and replacing it with downright awful stuff, simply to get those +5 whatever resistance. 10/10 right there!

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah, god forbid the game have any interesting mechanics in it that are tied to lore
    There can be, but they have to be interesting to be worth it. Resistance gear (or atleast the way it was implemented) was not interesting.
    You had to unequip your good gear just to wear a piece of shitty itemized greens. Such immersion! lol
    There would be a stronger argument made for example Paladin resistance auras than these crap items.
    Last edited by zorkuus; 2021-07-16 at 04:50 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I'm far from an expert here, but wouldn't you have to upgrade the cloak in order to get the corruption resistance in order to equip high corruption azerite armor? I mean, above and beyond needing to upgrade the cloak for ilvl purposes.
    Yeah, but this corruption resistance was pretty much a self enclosed system.
    You wore more corruption gear, you need more corruption resistance.

    The base cloak however was mandatory for N'zoth, without the cloak, you get instantly mindcontrolled on pull.
    Tons of people queueing up for LFR did not complete the questchain for the cloak and you ended up with groups completely unable to kill N'zoth because half of your raid got MC'd right off the bat.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    There can be, but they have to be interesting to be worth it. Resistance gear (or atleast the way it was implemented) was not interesting.
    You had to unequip your good gear just to wear a piece of shitty itemized greens. Such immersion! lol
    This, basically.

    For damage types to mean something they'd need to have inherent characteristics that are consistent, say bludgeoning having a chance to stun or something, or frost always slowing.
    But that'd worsen the balancing nightmare.

    And the thing is: You really need to keep these things in mind all the way through when designing things, so 17 years into a project is a tad late.
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  11. #51
    It made sense in the fire resist for the lord of fire, but gameplay wise it didnt do anything. Having the limiting factor of a boss be you needing X in a resist stat is extremely boring both in terms of designing and in terms of fighting said boss. As someone that did those boss when they were current, I am extremely glad they never went back to needing resist gear.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    In that case monks should take damage any time they hit a boss made out of fire. Weapons should break on hitting the fire boss. Shape shifted druids should take extra damage cause fur. Plate and mail armor? Heavy DoT because your armor is super heated.

    Still want realism in your boss fights?
    Yes, I do.

    I like the idea of having elements matter. I like the idea of some classes being better on some fights because of their profile.

    What I don't like is the fact that Rogue, DH, Mage have pretty much been the meta for M+ or PvP for years and years.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    What I don't like is the fact that Rogue, DH, Mage have pretty much been the meta for M+ or PvP for years and years.
    What does that have to do with elements?

  14. #54
    I fail to see the practical difference between needing the highest item level gear and gear with resist stats on it. Blizzard switched from the tedious getting prepped before a fight and went with the more direct know the mechanics to win, which I prefer vastly.

  15. #55
    The problem isn't resistances themselves its was Blizzard's design skills a problem they still have to this day, Blizzard removed them because they are just plain terrible at getting any rpg systems to work.

  16. #56
    because getting resist gear is artificial difficulty in the same way the bosses in mortal kombat are hard because they cant be thrown or staggered and break your block. even an 8 year old can see that the fight would be a joke if it weren't for such a gimmick mechanic.
    Last edited by Djanco; 2021-07-16 at 05:43 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    What does that have to do with elements?
    No variants in how the game is played. The same classes are always the strongest in certain areas because they refuse to go back to RPG elements. They spend too much time trying to homogenize the game/classes/specs instead of allowing certain specs to be better at some things than others. Which is why balance has been total shit forever.

    You bring back RPG elements and things can change dramatically in terms of balance and gameplay. Maybe you need to go a different spec for a different dungeon in M+, maybe you need to be a different spec for a different boss in a raid. Add variety instead of saying hey, this one spec can do EVERYTHING, while some specs in the game can literally do nothing.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I fail to see the practical difference between needing the highest item level gear and gear with resist stats on it. Blizzard switched from the tedious getting prepped before a fight and went with the more direct know the mechanics to win, which I prefer vastly.
    Excellent point. However, the downside of the current mechanics-based design is that I feel like a puppet on a string. If I don't (literally) dance exactly how Blizz wants me to dance, it's a fail. I've always found one-shot mechanics to be rather cheap.

  19. #59
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I mean...wearing some armor that is especially resistant against fire when fighting the Firelord itself is actually pretty selfexplanatory to me.
    And now our armor protects us from damages…

    Bland as fuck mechanic. Belong to the garbage can where it was thrown.
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    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    And now our armor protects us from damages…
    Armor doesn't work against magic damage.
    Fire damage is magic damage.

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