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  1. #1

    People in the top 100 haven't done heroic (fully) but they've done mythic 3/10.



    Is that how it is now; are 3 bosses of mythic easier than doing the last of heroic; I knew the last heroic boss is as hard as the first mythics but this would imply the first 3 mythics are easier than the last heroic.

    I suspect there is another truer reason about this; what if they do it mainly for ranking so they can recruit better players; I mean you're gonna rank faster with 3/10m than 10/10hc right.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post

    Is that how it is now; are 3 bosses of mythic easier than doing the last of heroic; I knew the last heroic boss is as hard as the first mythics but this would imply the first 3 mythics are easier than the last heroic.

    I suspect there is another truer reason about this; what if they do it mainly for ranking so they can recruit better players; I mean you're gonna rank faster with 3/10m than 10/10hc right.
    If you don't clear heroic the first week, its best to start with mythic the week after regardless of how easy it is. Reason being if you kill the first 3 on mythic > get loot, then on heroic afterwords, you can trade the heroic loot away (from any heroic boss as long as it matches that slot).

    Edit: Sylvannas was super hard though and has been nerfed a few times. Might be easier than mythic first 3 now maybe. Haven't tried it yet.
    Last edited by Bobthegoat; 2021-07-17 at 11:51 AM.
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  3. #3
    it's not strange for the first 1-2 mythic bosses to be easier than the final heroic boss. it's just that usually you can clear heroic fully in week 1.

    and well, if the first few mythic bosses are easier AND offer greater rewards...

  4. #4
    "Is that how it is now"

    Final HC Boss being harder than few starter meme loot piñata bosses in Mythic?

    Totally a new and never seen thing in WoW. /s
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  5. #5
    Having raided at that level in the past, another aspect you need to worry about is gear on one or multiple chars per raider... especially with personal loot being as it is. When I was pushing progression, getting the first kill on the last bosses of heroic wasn't a priority as the kill didn't matter. Furthermore, Blizz has gotten progressively worse at having buggier and overtuned content upon release over the years, so there's no sense in beating your head and wasting time on something that's potentially broken. Ironically, that's one of the reasons why I stopped top 50 progression: I was tired of how increasingly buggy and broken encounters were upon release, and putting all that raid testing in on the PTRs/betas felt like a waste. Not all guilds share this mentality towards that progression level, but it's not uncommon. Also, if you're a fan of split runs in your guild, you may not be in a guild group and may not register under the guild searches that heroic has been cleared. The reality is that they have probably cleared heroic on at least one of their chars, it just won't show up on the listing. Occasionally in the past my guild would save the lockout on the heroic bosses to practice/test strategies for mythic, saving us the time of reclearing.

    At this point, most of your work will have been to gear up your characters as much as possible to push mythic. One common tactic is to actually delay running heroic until you hit a wall with mythic progression, as it's either a gear issue or a balancing/bug issue holding you back. If it's a gear issue, it's much better to delay heroic until after mythic so you can potentially distribute more loot. While this happened prior to personal loot, it's more important to do it now since items will bind to players if its the highest ilvl item in that slot. If you progress mythic prior to doing heroic, chances are you will have a decent amount of people with high ilvl gear that will allow heroic items to not be bound to the player, letting your raid trade the items to people who need it. This is also one of the reasons why many progression raiders wish Master Loot was still a thing, as it's just another annoyance to concern yourself with that can randomly help or hurt your group. This is also another reason why purchasing BoE's is important: less chance that loot will get locked to someone who doesn't need it.

    As an aside, PvP/M+ and the weekly vault in combination with the Valor/Conquest upgrade systems has also adjusted how the early gearing process plays out. While it may not have the same ilvl of loot as the last bosses of heroic innately from end-of-run drops, the system itself makes the need to kill the last boss(es) in heroic less important.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Is that how it is now; are 3 bosses of mythic easier than doing the last of heroic
    It has always been like that.

  7. #7
    The firsts few(1-3) Mythic bosses have always been easier then the last (sometimes last 2) bosses on Heroic.
    It pretty much has always been that way, going as far back as Ulduar.

  8. #8
    I think the real funny part is that there's guilds in the top 100 world who haven't cleared Heroic fully, yet guilds that have killed heroic sylvannas haven't killed any mythic bosses yet. One guild according to wlogs wiped on Tarra mythic all night today, yet they killed sylvannas the night before.

    So who knows, but 1800 have killed mythic tarra and 200 heroic sylvannas. I miss the days where you couldn't just skip, you shouldn't be allowed to do the next diff if you can't even clear the previous level. We need attunements back. TBC is a prime example, can't do SSC/TK until you do the previous raids, can't do MH until you've cleared SSC and TK.
    Not sure how classic tbc is doing though.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post


    Is that how it is now; are 3 bosses of mythic easier than doing the last of heroic; I knew the last heroic boss is as hard as the first mythics but this would imply the first 3 mythics are easier than the last heroic.

    I suspect there is another truer reason about this; what if they do it mainly for ranking so they can recruit better players; I mean you're gonna rank faster with 3/10m than 10/10hc right.
    Always has been.

    Some semi-hardcore and less hardcore would do most of the raid but go straight into mythic when it comes out. Its not uncommon.
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    How the fuck is this trolling?

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  10. #10
    I miss the times when clearing the final heroic boss was actually a requirement to be able to enter mythic.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post


    Is that how it is now; are 3 bosses of mythic easier than doing the last of heroic; I knew the last heroic boss is as hard as the first mythics but this would imply the first 3 mythics are easier than the last heroic.

    I suspect there is another truer reason about this; what if they do it mainly for ranking so they can recruit better players; I mean you're gonna rank faster with 3/10m than 10/10hc right.
    The first three bosses have been easier than the left heroic boss for many years now

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bramickias View Post
    The firsts few(1-3) Mythic bosses have always been easier then the last (sometimes last 2) bosses on Heroic.
    It pretty much has always been that way, going as far back as Ulduar.

    The comparison there would be normal Yogg vs hardmode Flame Leviathan.
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  13. #13
    Didn't we have the same case for... a few years already?

    HC Sylvanas is harder than first mythic bosses, and I personally see no problem with it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    I think the real funny part is that there's guilds in the top 100 world who haven't cleared Heroic fully, yet guilds that have killed heroic sylvannas haven't killed any mythic bosses yet. One guild according to wlogs wiped on Tarra mythic all night today, yet they killed sylvannas the night before.

    So who knows, but 1800 have killed mythic tarra and 200 heroic sylvannas. I miss the days where you couldn't just skip, you shouldn't be allowed to do the next diff if you can't even clear the previous level. We need attunements back. TBC is a prime example, can't do SSC/TK until you do the previous raids, can't do MH until you've cleared SSC and TK.
    Not sure how classic tbc is doing though.
    I'm wholly opposed to taking away options to serve to satisfy random people's OCD.

    Locked difficulty modes only exist to force you to play through more than one time. There's no reason to have it in WoW since they already wait a week.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    The comparison there would be normal Yogg vs hardmode Flame Leviathan.
    i would say that orbit-uary was easier to do than yogg with 4 keepers up, i think the first 'hardmode' that would be comparable to this was XT-deconstructor but yeah this has been somewhat of a thing for many years now, surprised people still don't realise it.

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  16. #16
    This is how it has been for a long time.

    Why waste time in heroic, just clear what you can on day one or two of the first raid week. Then jump into mythic for some free easy loot. This allows subsequent weeks to be easier and allows for loot to be traded.

    Guilds that don't this are a breeding ground for new talent to be picked up by top 100 guilds. Usually why casual/semi-hardcore guilds have high roster rotation.

  17. #17
    HC Denathrius was harder than first 2 mythic bosses.
    HC Queen Azshara was harder than first 3 mythic bosses.
    HC Blackhand was harder than first few mythic bosses.
    Lich King normal was harder than first few heroic bosses
    Yogg Saron was harder than some hardmode bosses.

    Do you want me to list more examples? This is nothing extraordinary.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Bramickias View Post
    The firsts few(1-3) Mythic bosses have always been easier then the last (sometimes last 2) bosses on Heroic.
    It pretty much has always been that way, going as far back as Ulduar.
    Eh, not quite as far back as Ulduar, if we're talking about 25-man. XT-002 was a pretty solid DPS check. My guild at the time had fully cleared normals (and 4-tower Flame Leviathan), but the rest of the hard modes were completely off the table. Trial of the Grand Crusader was the same deal. All five normal modes were pathetically easy, but the first heroic boss was a hurdle we couldn't overcome.

    Now, ICC? Yeah, if you could kill LK, you could handle the first... probably 5 or 6 bosses without much trouble.
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  19. #19
    Apart from different difficulties, you naturally have to have difficulty curve within the raid on one specific difficulty as well. There is nothing weird about it and it's a perfectly good design, which makes sense. First boss, and sometimes first 1-2-3 bosses should be on the lower difficulty within each difficulty setting. In fact, it would have been ridiculous if mythic Tarragrue was harder than heroic Sylvanas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    Eh, not quite as far back as Ulduar, if we're talking about 25-man. XT-002 was a pretty solid DPS check. My guild at the time had fully cleared normals (and 4-tower Flame Leviathan), but the rest of the hard modes were completely off the table. Trial of the Grand Crusader was the same deal. All five normal modes were pathetically easy, but the first heroic boss was a hurdle we couldn't overcome.

    Now, ICC? Yeah, if you could kill LK, you could handle the first... probably 5 or 6 bosses without much trouble.
    XT was a 4th boss though, not the first, and not even the third. And even then... XT HM was much easier than Yogg with 4 keepers. Maybe not numerically, but mechanically for sure.

    As for ToC, it's funny because I remember being in a very casual guild back then and we couldn't beat Twin Valkyr on 25 normal, but could easily do Northrend Beasts on HC. Different problems in different guilds I guess.
    Last edited by Azerate; 2021-07-19 at 09:12 AM.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mmocfd1b0ab5a3 View Post
    HC Denathrius was harder than first 2 mythic bosses.
    HC Queen Azshara was harder than first 3 mythic bosses.
    HC Blackhand was harder than first few mythic bosses.
    Lich King normal was harder than first few heroic bosses
    Yogg Saron was harder than some hardmode bosses.

    Do you want me to list more examples? This is nothing extraordinary.
    hc queen azhara was a joke, the first boss in mytich was a lot harder but the next 2 were pretty easy. In HC azhara you could cheese third phase with lust and skip it and just overheal intermissions if your dps were not able to do the mechanics. you could not overheal the first fight in mytich it was too much damage. the next 2 bosses has the same dificulty of azhara or even a little more. agree with the rest

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