If 10.0 is a massive revamp was it worth dealing with Shadowlands?

[ro9ue]

Jailer is out there doing "Reality's end" stuff. If he's a plot point to usher in a massive 10.0 world revamp and redone systems and classes, etc. do you think that would change your perspective on Shadowlands?

Basically knowing they were doing a ton of work for the massive rework and Shadowlands would just be a WoD to a mega-Legion.

[Ivarr]

I love that Draenor exists. But we didn't need WoD for legion. We also don't need Shadowlands for a world revamp, which I would love to see. N'Zoth is equally capable at tearing Azeroth a new one.

[Zonnis]

I enjoy shadowlands, so probably not.

[intenz]

No because shadowlands burned so many bridges at the same time as a certain rival MMO has hit its stride that I don't think any revamp can possibly save WoW.

[Skirdus]

What kind of story could they even tell with a revamped Azeroth at this point?

Faction war? We just did that.

Old gods? We just did that.

Return of the Burning Legion? A bit early for them to be the main focus again, considering it's only been 5 years since Legion.

Zovaal carrying over as the main villain of the next xpac as well? Going to start feeling the same sort of fatigue people currently have for Sylvanas regardless of whether or not he's actually developed as a character.

And I guarantee you that if they're trying to build up to some "epic battle between the six cosmic forces" that takes place on Azeroth, it's going to end up an unsatisfying clusterfuck that butchers countless characters in the process. I don't trust Blizzard with delivering on something of that scope

[Ivarr]

Faction war? We just did that.

A sectarian civil war with multiple sub-factions. NOT a third faction as so many people suggest. But different tribes that Horde and Alliance can pledge fealty to and feud against other tribes.

[Stormspellz]

a soft wow2 post 10.0

jailer (or insert big baddy) and a manifested azeroth duke it out, we the players play our part, but in the battle cataclysm 2.0 happens, azeroth saves us by putting us in a hibernation stasis before going into one her self to recover after recent events. time skip ahead, players wake up to a whole new world and characters

[Kyphael]

I highly doubt they're doing any sort of massive world revamp since they look at Cataclysm as a huge time sink that ultimately became outdated within a couple of expansions. Now they've reworked the leveling concept, making it a "choose your adventure" from a menu of past stories. That almost makes investing time in revamping EK and Kalimdor a waste of time. If they want to move the narrative forward in those continents, they can use phasing tech, not have to redo a thousand quests across two continents. We're never getting a revamped EK/Kalimdor again like in Cataclysm, and Shadowlands put a nail in that coffin, IMO.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

11.0 will be the 10th Expansion, aligning (possibly) with the 20th Anniversary year of World of Warcraft in 2024.

My thinking has been that we'll either get the world revamp for 11.0, or they're really not going to do a 'Cata level overhaul' (in terms of scale and change, not themes) again.

10.0 just might be a Twisting Nether/Cosmic expansion if I had to put money on it right now, but my guess isn't really too good yet either. Depends on this Sepulcher reveal.
There's a lot of rich nostalgia potential in having settings similar at all to Outland, and Ethereals coming in.

This will tie us over until 11.0 we come back home after a longer stretch away than ever (IRL, not canonically), to a beeaauutiful revamped Azeroth (with timeless questing content, that's key), celebrating 20 years of WoW and Azeroth.

For me, that'd be well worth the wait. I've waited this long! lol

And then? Backside of Azeroth, here we come 12.0 baby

Edit: Let me raise you this as well, OP, if the revamp comes in 11.0, what would be worth the wait for you?

[Frozenbeef]

No because shadowlands burned so many bridges at the same time as a certain rival MMO has hit its stride that I don't think any revamp can possibly save WoW.

Rival MMO? I'm assuming you mean Final Fantasy based on the recent band wagon. Too bad it's a grindy bore or a game. (and that's coming from someone that hasn't been subbed to wow in over 8 months)

On topic, we've seen the reaction to cataclysm changing old zones, scaling that up would have an even worse reaction to it.

[threads]

a wow 2 revamp doesn't matter when the current devs hate feedback and are obsessed with systems and simcraft.

[MoanaLisa]

Depends on what the revamp is about. I'm not in the camp that thinks they'll do some massive revamp for 10.0 but I suppose anything is possible.

[Ivarr]

If they want to move the narrative forward in those continents, they can use phasing tech, not have to redo a thousand quests across two continents. We're never getting a revamped EK/Kalimdor again like in Cataclysm, and Shadowlands put a nail in that coffin, IMO.

That's what I expect to happen. However, it will happen from a baseline revamp of the existing world. Cataclysm will be covered up with a layer of normalcy. The scars of Cataclysm will have healed, damage is visible but has been repaired to a certain extend. The world is just inhabited with petty thieves and not end time cultists.

Then on that baseline of normalcy the end game content will happen in temporary phases of the zones of Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms (and hopefully Northrend).

This allows Blizzard to avoid the mistake they made with Cataclysm, which is creating drastic events in a normal world without ever letting them end. The fires created by Deathwing are still burning after all this time which is depressing.

[kenn9530]

Jailer is out there doing "Reality's end" stuff. If he's a plot point to usher in a massive 10.0 world revamp and redone systems and classes, etc. do you think that would change your perspective on Shadowlands?

Basically knowing they were doing a ton of work for the massive rework and Shadowlands would just be a WoD to a mega-Legion.

It doesnt matter the expansion, the game just offers the same content each expansion with a slightly different flavour, the game is old and we dont need a revamp, what we actually need is a completely different game in a different universe.

[Athorha]

What kind of story could they even tell with a revamped Azeroth at this point?

Faction war? We just did that.

Old gods? We just did that.

Return of the Burning Legion? A bit early for them to be the main focus again, considering it's only been 5 years since Legion.

Zovaal carrying over as the main villain of the next xpac as well? Going to start feeling the same sort of fatigue people currently have for Sylvanas regardless of whether or not he's actually developed as a character.

And I guarantee you that if they're trying to build up to some "epic battle between the six cosmic forces" that takes place on Azeroth, it's going to end up an unsatisfying clusterfuck that butchers countless characters in the process. I don't trust Blizzard with delivering on something of that scope

Reign of chaos ending 2.0

Eastern kingdoms going down as we ease tensions on kalimdor to prepare for our loss.

Id be down if the whole thing just became undead and kalimdor was an overgrowth durotar/feralas development

[Kyphael]

That's what I expect to happen. However, it will happen from a baseline revamp of the existing world. Cataclysm will be covered up with a layer of normalcy. The scars of Cataclysm will have healed, damage is visible but has been repaired to a certain extend. The world is just inhabited with petty thieves and not end time cultists.

Then on that baseline of normalcy the end game content will happen in temporary phases of the zones of Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms (and hopefully Northrend).

This allows Blizzard to avoid the mistake they made with Cataclysm, which is creating drastic events in a normal world without ever letting them end. The fires created by Deathwing are still burning after all this time which is depressing.

Exactly, well said. They don't have to literally re-do every zone and quest (part of the Cataclysm revamp was making EK and Kalimdor able to support flight too so I guess it was necessary.) Just "healing the scars from Deathwing", putting out the fires and updating some quest texts and mobs shouldn't take that that much work to bring EK and Kalimdor up to date. It does mean of course that the Cataclysm zone would be inaccessible, paving the way for "Classic Cataclysm" but again, if they just use phasing tech to cover up the "scars" from the Cataclysm revamp, then that isn't necessary.

[MoanaLisa]

What kind of story could they even tell with a revamped Azeroth at this point?

There have to be tons of minor stories that could be told as quest chains in the old zones. They don't even really have to phase them. Just copy the old zone, modify it to erase out the effects of Deathwing, limit it to whatever the highest level is and load it up with the quests and stories.

I think you're right if they go for "EPIC" which they typically do it will end badly. That was one of the successes of Mists: smaller stories that ran parallel but not necessarily connecting to the main one.

That said, expansions are in some ways so disconnected from one another that I don't know if Shadowlands matters one way or another. If you like it then play it and don't expect an ongoing story arc after it's over. If you hate it then you shouldn't be playing it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I can't say yet since SL isn't over. I want a revamp to happen if it'll honor the roots of the zones, not a revamp tied so heavily into an expansion theme that it'll grow outdated with 11.0.

No because shadowlands burned so many bridges at the same time as a certain rival MMO has hit its stride that I don't think any revamp can possibly save WoW.

How about you hold on until the next quarterly report before shouting that the sky is falling.

Other than that, what you just wrote was also written during MoP, WoD, Legion, BfA... Only the "rival MMO" supposedly stealin' all of WoW's players have changed over the years...

I know that we live in a post-facts world, but 3rd party websites never had and never WILL have access to any form of sub numbers on their own.

[NineSpine]

I can't say yet since SL isn't over. I want a revamp to happen if it'll honor the roots of the zones, not a revamp tied so heavily into an expansion theme that it'll grow outdated with 11.0.



How about you hold on until the next quarterly report before shouting that the sky is falling.

Other than that, what you just wrote was also written during MoP, WoD, Legion, BfA... Only the "rival MMO" supposedly stealin' all of WoW's players have changed over the years...

This is what we call "denial". The fact that people incorrectly predicted the downfall of WoW in the past doesn't invalidate the clear as day evidence that there is a serious problem right now. You are forgetting what happens at the end of the boy who cried wolf story: There really was a wolf.

[Ivarr]

There have to be tons of minor stories that could be told as quest chains in the old zones. They don't even really have to phase them. Just copy the old zone, modify it to erase out the effects of Deathwing, limit it to whatever the highest level is and load it up with the quests and stories.

Even Cataclysm was mostly phased. Zones that had a drastic change had NPC's that could transport you to the vanilla content. Blizzard can just stack phases on top of phases.

However, they want to create something catastrophic, it should be done in a temporary phase, a phase that the player can work to remedy and close the phase again.

The entire end-game could take place in the format of invasions that way. Sounds exhausting, but keep in mind that phases can have different periods. There can be phases that last a few hours, some last an entire week, and some only close after a collective effort is made to complete them.

This is also the perfect way to time-gate content. Players can always play the content but they're not guaranteed to have all the content available all the time.