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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    It's not a theory lol. It's a rule on Twitch that if your stream is sponsored you need to have #ad in the stream title. There's fuck tons of sponsored streams literally every single day on Twitch and it's plain to see because it's transparent.
    Yes, it's a theory because unless you've been given information on dollar amounts or subscription numbers, we're just making educated guesses.

    Right now, all some here are doing is giving out false accolades which is a very strange thing to do.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Yes, it's a theory because unless you've been given information on dollar amounts or subscription numbers, we're just making educated guesses.

    Right now, all some here are doing is giving out false accolades which is a very strange thing to do.
    Plenty of streamers have talked about how much they get paid. $10 per 100 viewers per minute is pretty normal for big streamers. So for a 5k view count streamer we're talking like 30k for an hour.

    I'm sure all the "webcam folk" are just liars though right? Can't trust those dastardly webcam people.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    Plenty of streamers have talked about how much they get paid. $10 per 100 viewers per minute is pretty normal for big streamers. So for a 5k view count streamer we're talking like 30k for an hour.

    I'm sure all the "webcam folk" are just liars though right? Can't trust those dastardly webcam people.
    Because whatever someone on a webcam says MUST be true.

    Do I really need to point this out? I can't believe people are so naive.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    We all have our theories about these webcam folk and what/who is paying them. And we also have no market analysts here. We have streamer fans grasping at straws trying to pretend the person they watch does/did more than they actually did by making outrageous claims.
    Oh yeah so because your gut feeling and fanboyism conflicts with facts and what other people are saying, we're automatically streamer fans or what. Idgaf about Asmongold or his followers, but it is undeniable that he has made FFXIV a much more popular game, even moreso than an expansion release of this game. All you've done so far is dismiss hard evidence and call people out, but you have never presented any even slight evidence that your claims are any true.

    So my claims still hold: FFXIV is a decently popular game in Japan and in some parts of East Asia, but in the West its relatively unknown and thus the simple fact that one big streamer started playing it has drastically increased its interest and player numbers. Search interest ratios (!!), streaming services, steam playing numbers (I am aware this isn't the main or only source from where people get to play ffxiv, but its trend paint a good picture of it) prove this clearly.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2021-07-20 at 11:59 AM.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Because whatever someone on a webcam says MUST be true.

    Do I really need to point this out? I can't believe people are so naive.
    Nah man I get it. Hundreds of people are all in on the conspiracy together. They all get together wherever webcam folks get together at and they're like, "How can we gaslight Necromantic, the most important mmo-champion poster. We've gotta lie about really weird stuff that has nothing to do with him so he questions reality."

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Oh yeah so because your gut feeling and fanboyism conflicts with facts and what other people are saying, we're automatically streamer fans or what. Idgaf about Asmongold or his followers, but it is undeniable that he has made FFXIV a much more popular game, even moreso than an expansion release of this game. All you've done so far is dismiss hard evidence and call people out, but you have never presented any even slight evidence that your claims are any true.

    So my claims still hold: FFXIV is a decently popular game in Japan and in some parts of East Asia, but in the West its relatively unknown and thus the simple fact that one big streamer started playing it has drastically increased its interest and player numbers.
    Someone defending a streamer says my "fanboyism". Does not compute.

    No, he didn't make this a "much more" popular game. He may have brought a few of his sycophants along for the ride but that's about it. If you honestly feel otherwise, I sympathize.

    I've not dismissed any "hard evidence." I'm pointing out how you're taking evidence and reading it wrong. I don't need evidence for anything I've said. I'm not the one making outrageous claims.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    Nah man I get it. Hundreds of people are all in on the conspiracy together. They all get together wherever webcam folks get together at and they're like, "How can we gaslight Necromantic, the most important mmo-champion poster. We've gotta lie about really weird stuff that has nothing to do with him so he questions reality."
    A hundred sycophants say "this guy did sooooo much for the game" does not make it so.

    Some people may buy this crap, I'm sure as heck not one of them.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post

    A hundred sycophants say "this guy did sooooo much for the game" does not make it so.

    Some people may buy this crap, I'm sure as heck not one of them.
    What? That's not even what we were talking about.

    I said that hundreds of streamers have talked about standard rates for sponsored content and you called them liars. We weren't even talking about what non-streamers were saying about streamer impact on FF14.

    Did you have a stroke during our conversation?

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    What? That's not even what we were talking about.

    I said that hundreds of streamers have talked about standard rates for sponsored content and you called them liars. We weren't even talking about what non-streamers were saying about streamer impact on FF14.
    I know exactly what you said.

    And my point still stands that just because they make claims on webcam does not make them true. People hold waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much trust in what webcam plebs say/think. It's so awkward.

    And as I've said before, I'm one of the last people you're ever going to convince that these people do good for games so you're basically wasting your time.

    Did you have a stroke during our conversation?
    Was that comment really necessary? I mean seriously?

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I know exactly what you said.

    And my point still stands that just because they make claims on webcam does not make them true. People hold waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much trust in what webcam plebs say/think. It's so awkward.
    So you think hundreds of them all gathered together in secret to lie about something trivial? Or they're like some kind of hive mind or something where they all decided to lie independently about the same thing?

    Was that comment really necessary? I mean seriously?
    When you completely change the subject and act like you didn't, and didn't even realize it, yes.

  10. #230
    so FF had a surge of toxic miserable players who gonna pretend they know it all in 2 weeks, why is it good?
    Shadowlands is real world
    The Maw is China
    The Jailer is China government
    Sylvanas is Blizz

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    So you think hundreds of them all gathered together in secret to lie about something trivial? Or they're like some kind of hive mind or something where they all decided to lie independently about the same thing?
    Do I think they "gathered together in secret?" What a strange hypothetical question.

    My point, again (you're not going to change my mind) is that I do not trust these webcam plebs. I've seen so many things they've said that are absolutely incorrect to the point of being laughable yet all these sycophants eat it up and even reference what they say. It's scary how naive people are.

    When you completely change the subject and act like you didn't, and didn't even realize it, yes.
    I didn't change the subject. And no, it was not necessary. That comment you made could be asked to any fan of any streamer mid-conversation but it's absolutely rude, superfluous, unnecessary and nonconstructive. Why resort to insulting remarks rather than just sticking to the conversation at hand because I didn't insult you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by iosdeveloper View Post
    so FF had a surge of toxic miserable players who gonna pretend they know it all in 2 weeks, why is it good?
    It's not good, never was. Streamer fans (apparent in this thread too) grasp at straws, pretending their cluster is good for the game(s). They love to hold onto the "we bring up the population" as their golden ticket response but forget that inflating the population with empty shells causes way more harm than anything else.

    Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yCmZHILkm8

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Do I think they "gathered together in secret?" What a strange hypothetical question.

    My point, again (you're not going to change my mind) is that I do not trust these webcam plebs. I've seen so many things they've said that are absolutely incorrect to the point of being laughable yet all these sycophants eat it up and even reference what they say. It's scary how naive people are.
    So why do you think tons of the webcam plebs all said that when they do sponsored content they make a gross amount of money, and tons of them gave the same figures. What is your explanation for that? Are they lying or telling the truth? If they're lying then why and how?

    I didn't change the subject.
    Yes you did.

    I said the streamers claimed they get paid a lot of money by companies.

    You said that they can't be trusted.

    I asked how and why hundreds of them would/could coordinate lying about this.

    You then started talking about how fans are sycophants, which has nothing to do with whether or not the streamers are lying or telling the truth.

    So yeah, you changed the subject and I wanna know why.

  13. #233
    he'll leave the game as quickly as he played it. Same goes with his mindless chat army.

  14. #234
    This thread is sad. Its really obvious Asmongold is very popular. Its really obvious MMOC is dying because it is drowning in toxic behavior. And now we have a bunch of hyper toxic people on MMOC attacking Asmongold.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    So why do you think tons of the webcam plebs all said that when they do sponsored content they make a gross amount of money, and tons of them gave the same figures. What is your explanation for that? Are they lying or telling the truth? If they're lying then why and how?
    You're using generic terms to paint your own scenario. I'm not saying anyone is lying. I'm only saying I do not believe them. There is a difference. Due to all the untrue and dishonest things so many of these "popular streamers" have said, it's hard to believe that anyone believes them yet people still watch them, reference them and give them money. And yes, I know... a fool and their money are soon parted.

    Yes you did.

    I said the streamers claimed they get paid a lot of money by companies.

    You said that they can't be trusted.

    I asked how and why hundreds of them would/could coordinate lying about this.

    You then started talking about how fans are sycophants, which has nothing to do with whether or not the streamers are lying or telling the truth.
    Apples and oranges. I brought up sycophants when you started saying "hundreds of people." That's where I think you got confused.

    I wanna know why.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef9QnZVpVd8

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    This thread is sad. Its really obvious Asmongold is very popular. Its really obvious MMOC is dying because it is drowning in toxic behavior. And now we have a bunch of hyper toxic people on MMOC attacking Asmongold.
    I don't see much attacking rather than refuting some outrageous claims.

    If you say "If Joe Blow didn't exist, the sun wouldn't rise" and somebody else said "That's simply not true"... that doesn't mean somebody else is attacking Joe Blow.
    Last edited by Necromantic; 2021-07-20 at 12:49 PM.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    You're using generic terms to paint your own scenario. I'm not saying anyone is lying. I'm only saying I do not believe them. There is a difference. Due to all the untrue and dishonest things so many of these "popular streamers" have said, it's hard to believe that anyone believes them yet people still watch them, reference them and give them money. And yes, I know... a fool and their money are soon parted. Apples and oranges. I brought up sycophants when you started saying "hundreds of people." That's where I think you got confused.
    Ah, I see I confused you. When I said hundreds of people, I was not talking about fans. Hundreds of streamers. Literally hundreds of streamers have talked about how lucrative sponsored content is. You thought that I changed the subject because you assumed that hundreds of people must refer to fans instead of streamers. Looks like I did get what I want.

    I think the thing that amazes me most is that you hate streamers so much but you don't trust them to sellout to big companies. You're skeptical that the selling out is real lol. That just amazes me.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    Ah, I see I confused you.
    Was your response to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    That's where I think you got confused.
    o_O

    That's pretty weird...

    When I said hundreds of people, I was not talking about fans. Hundreds of streamers. Literally hundreds of streamers have talked about how lucrative sponsored content is. You thought that I changed the subject because you assumed that hundreds of people must refer to fans instead of streamers. Looks like I did get what I want.

    I think the thing that amazes me most is that you hate streamers so much but you don't trust them to sellout to big companies. You're skeptical that the selling out is real lol. That just amazes me.
    I don't hate streamers nor did I mention anything about selling out. Don't strawman this discussion because I'm not doing that to you. I said I do not trust them (many of them, not all). I don't understand why you streamer fans cannot fathom that there are people out there who do not watch, like or even know who your webcam person is.

    Me personally, I just don't see what the big deal is with average Joe people who panhandle in front of a webcam and random people on the internet put them on a pedestal. It's even more awkward that they actually fork out their own money. I mean, if people are so naive, I'll go buy a webcam, play a game that I'm not any good at, insult the creators, make weird faces/noises if anyone here wants to toss me some cash.
    Last edited by Necromantic; 2021-07-20 at 01:04 PM.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    How would you do Blitzball? As a game in which you have teams of players competing against each other, like maybe an 8v8? I'd be nervous as to how that'd work due to the input delay. Or a 1v1 RTS (or perhaps even turn based?) where each player control a whole team of NPC Blitzball players?
    Underwater Knockout City and then build in all associated social features necessary. Try to do their absolute best to make it as smooth and buttery as possible (I know I know, a stretch). They don't need to reinvent the wheel, just find the most similar successful game that kind of mimics it's gameplay and be done with it.

    I still wish they just fucking copied Mario Kart or Crash Team Racing when they made Chocobo Racing, but unfortunately we got a crappy iteration.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Show me one person who has actually done both who says that anything in FFXIV is more challenging / competitve WoW's mythic raiding and keep ignoring that FFXIV has no real PvP to speak of.
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    What weird bias? I've played both games, one is clearly better for the social aspect, and one is clearly better for high end PvE and PvP. You suggesting that anything in FFXIV is equivalent to WoW's mythic raiding in terms of challenge is laughable.
    Hi, ex top 20 US mythic Ret Paladin raider, ~99% parse in heroic, ~93-95% mythic. Have held dozens of top 10 world parses over the years. I play tank/PLD in FF14 (~85% most tiers, but thats because <----too broke to pentameld) so it's not a 1:1 comparison.

    I actually think both sides might be right though because I'm not confident that both people are actually talking about the same thing. In that vein I will discuss this as a cutting edge raider in both games assuming you are progressing before there are guides written:

    FF14 has stupidly obscure mechanics that make no sense at first. Figuring these out and their solutions is where most of the challenge actually comes from. Once an encounter is figured out, executing it is actually not that challenging. Having only 7 other mouthbreathers to worry about also makes things much easier with the help of infinite resses to speed up the learning process.

    However, on the other hand, personal responsibility is CONSIDERABLY higher in FF14 than WoW Mythic raiding. In Mythic raiding an encounter generally has like 3-4 all stars (pretty much responsible for the entire raids success mechanically speaking).

    DPS Optimization in FF14 feels much harder than WoW, but that's mostly a byproduct of it's combat engine within the encounter mechanics. I have historically had very little issue optimizing my DPS in WoW inside an encounter (a lot more done outside to find a play pattern I like that works for me, does the output it needs to be competitive, and makes sense for the encounter).

    In WoW solving for mechanics has historically not been challenging to us at all. Coming up with a solution for those mechanics sometimes takes a little work (who to assign and why, timing of critical cooldowns, gear shortage issues, where people should position to maximize their effectiveness). The difference becomes managing the stress of a deteoriating situation and making the appropriate calls to ensure there's a chance to clear. This type of decision fatigue rarely occurs in FF14 since most mechanics at the savage/ultimate level dictate a restart if failed.

    The advantage of 20 players is that your weak link might not get the critical mechanic that wipes the entire party which is nice. In FF14 your top 100 Mythic Mage friend playing BLM is required to do the mechanics almost every time, which apparently he felt were optional in FF14 much to our chagrin.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Yes my posts where I criticize Blizzard instead of taking the easy route of just blaming Activision and I criticize Blizzard for the extremely dumb decisions they make. The posts where I compare Blizzard not to an evil soulless mega corporation but to the family golden retriever that shits on the carpet randomly, those just ooze fanboy. If that's the only retort you've got to me simply pointing out that FFXIV occupies an entirely different space in the MMO market than WoW that's kind of sad tbh.







    Show me one person who has actually done both who says that anything in FFXIV is more challenging / competitve WoW's mythic raiding and keep ignoring that FFXIV has no real PvP to speak of.

    I like how saying that FFXIV is a successful game but disagreeing with the narrative pushed by your favorite streamers at the moment who are profiting off of the angst of disgruntled WoW fans generates so much toxicity from the FFXIV mega fans. I'll praise FFXIV for its strong points like a much more social experience in-game, but I'm not going to pretend that it has difficult content.

    As far as calling me an an oozing / raging / whatever adjective you like fanboy, I get called both a Blizzard hater and a fanboy interchangeably with such frequency that if I paid any attention to it I'd have whiplash. You want to talk about what Blizzard does wrong I'll gladly tell you, you want to talk about how FFXIV is the only other MMO than WoW to have a decent amount of staying power over the past couple decades? I'm right there with you. You want to pretend that FFXIV has some amazingly challenging content that rivals what WoW offers in both PvE and PvP spaces? Yeah I'm not your guy there, I prefer to stick to non-fiction. I'll praise a good game for being good, I'll not lie about it to make it seem better than it is, you can tune in to whatever streamer is currently siphoning cash off you for that.
    You said that nothing in FFXIV is anywhere near as difficult as mythic raiding in WoW. This pretty much proves you've either never played the game or just never went past level 40.

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Yes my posts where I criticize Blizzard instead of taking the easy route of just blaming Activision and I criticize Blizzard for the extremely dumb decisions they make. The posts where I compare Blizzard not to an evil soulless mega corporation but to the family golden retriever that shits on the carpet randomly, those just ooze fanboy. If that's the only retort you've got to me simply pointing out that FFXIV occupies an entirely different space in the MMO market than WoW that's kind of sad tbh.







    Show me one person who has actually done both who says that anything in FFXIV is more challenging / competitve WoW's mythic raiding and keep ignoring that FFXIV has no real PvP to speak of.

    I like how saying that FFXIV is a successful game but disagreeing with the narrative pushed by your favorite streamers at the moment who are profiting off of the angst of disgruntled WoW fans generates so much toxicity from the FFXIV mega fans. I'll praise FFXIV for its strong points like a much more social experience in-game, but I'm not going to pretend that it has difficult content.

    As far as calling me an an oozing / raging / whatever adjective you like fanboy, I get called both a Blizzard hater and a fanboy interchangeably with such frequency that if I paid any attention to it I'd have whiplash. You want to talk about what Blizzard does wrong I'll gladly tell you, you want to talk about how FFXIV is the only other MMO than WoW to have a decent amount of staying power over the past couple decades? I'm right there with you. You want to pretend that FFXIV has some amazingly challenging content that rivals what WoW offers in both PvE and PvP spaces? Yeah I'm not your guy there, I prefer to stick to non-fiction. I'll praise a good game for being good, I'll not lie about it to make it seem better than it is, you can tune in to whatever streamer is currently siphoning cash off you for that.
    There are tons of people who are commenting on this specifically with their own examples and I watched this video the other day that did a good job of comparing the two.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96KtLjdlaRw
    “The rains have ceased, and we have been graced with another beautiful day. But you are not here to see it.”

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