Strugling with guilds.

[reckleon]

Hello there.
I have returned after a break of BFA and went to another Realm to raid properly but cassual. ( 2 raid days )
And from the Start of CN till now i just noticed 1 thing in the few guilds ive been since i was looking for a place to stay.
And i wonder if this is common now cause back in the day ( been raiding since TBC) i havent seen these things accure this heavily.
Every guild has this clicks and groups where as new comer its really hard to fit in and there has been allot of talking behind peoples back instead of confronting the person about his action or attitude.
Officers and Raidleader cant have anny critisism towards them. Example you wonder why they did something and the reply they commonly use is you just have to trust us even tho the call or action they make is in the wrong in more peoples eyes.
Like back in the day i was raidleader a GM and even just a raider in all those years and you could always ask or disagree within manners without being shutted down instantly.
It feels like atleast places ive been Guilds been bleeding slowly and the stress is getting to them even tho its just a game.'
And they prefer a team of yes sayers instead of quistioners this is not all personally affected to me fyi this is what i also see why people left a guild there for guild slowly dies or raids less efficient as they have.

[Sondrelk]

I imagine its more that the "good" casual raid groups are at this point a more close knit group. The guild I am in has been centered around a small community since Highmaul in WoD, and its difficult at that point to accept new people willingly when you have seen dozens of wonderful, friendly people not just leave, but leave suddenly and without warning.

I cannot speak for every guild of course, some would definitely be far too exclusing of new faces, but generally its the same principle as joining a group of friends. Sure if you spend time with them they will eventually open up, but before then you would need to show that you are someone who is actually going to stick around long enough to get emotionally invested.

In general I would say that you should focus on why you like this guild specifically. If it doesnt offer you anything then you should consider leaving for a friendlier or more accepting guild. However if you think the guild is friendly and you want to keep spending time with them then I would suggest trying to treat it like any other group of friends, rty to get to know them better.

[potis]

snip

Eh, expecting guilds not to have clicks and groups in a 17 year old game by now, is being delusional.

It all depends what guilds you join, some wannabe Mythic guild full of people in their early 20s was and will always be full of weirdos and idiotic situations, which sounds exactly like what you are doing.

Now, you also pretty much admit you are a guild hopper/not dedicated/not trustworthy in every single word of your paragraph the moment something tickles your fanny.

I can write lots of things about this, but it all boils down to the fact that people dont trust other players to remain for the longterm and therefor they dont care to keep you because they know you wont stay, it doesnt matter how they treat you, one day you will simply disappear.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Every guild has this clicks and groups where as new comer its really hard to fit in and there has been allot of talking behind peoples back instead of confronting the person about his action or attitude.

Not every guild has this, but it is common.

If the guild is centered around a clique and you can't fit in, then it's best to move on. Keep looking for a group you can slide into.

Officers and Raidleader cant have anny critisism towards them.

It is understandable that officers wouldn't want drama in public, but any guild where you can't even speak up - even in private with the officers - without fear of being punished, is one you probably shouldn't be in.

[Peacemoon]

Hello there.
I have returned after a break of BFA and went to another Realm to raid properly but cassual. ( 2 raid days )
And from the Start of CN till now i just noticed 1 thing in the few guilds ive been since i was looking for a place to stay.
And i wonder if this is common now cause back in the day ( been raiding since TBC) i havent seen these things accure this heavily.
Every guild has this clicks and groups where as new comer its really hard to fit in and there has been allot of talking behind peoples back instead of confronting the person about his action or attitude.
Officers and Raidleader cant have anny critisism towards them. Example you wonder why they did something and the reply they commonly use is you just have to trust us even tho the call or action they make is in the wrong in more peoples eyes.
Like back in the day i was raidleader a GM and even just a raider in all those years and you could always ask or disagree within manners without being shutted down instantly.
It feels like atleast places ive been Guilds been bleeding slowly and the stress is getting to them even tho its just a game.'
And they prefer a team of yes sayers instead of quistioners this is not all personally affected to me fyi this is what i also see why people left a guild there for guild slowly dies or raids less efficient as they have.

There’s quite a few issues here so let me try unpick a few for you (I’m a guild leader myself)

Cliques: it’s natural when you are new that you feel like you’re hanging out with a group of friends but you don’t know anyone and they know each other too well, in essence because you are. It takes time to become part of the group.
Remember guilds often have a flow of people joining, and many of them start with good intentions but ‘disappear’ and aren’t active. It means it takes time for people to want to fully invest in befriending new people sometime.
If you are active, friendly and helpful, you will quickly become part of the core guild group however.

Yes sayers: it really depends on the situation and it’s hard to speak generally. Let me just say the other side of the argument for argument’s sake.
When you are raiding as a team the morale of the group is the single most important thing. You want people to enjoy themselves, believe in themselves and make the raid fun.
Sometimes when you are progressing you need to open the floor up so people can add their thoughts on what’s going wrong, and when this happens it’s fine to critique the strategy and come up with something that works better. Most people won’t have too many ego problems with this.
However it’s also important to avoid nitpicking on small things that are inconsequential to the bigger picture and just wear everyone down. On progression fights, but also kills you’ve done before. Sometimes you need to know what battles are worth fighting, and don’t second guess the raid leader for no reason, as it just slows everything up and people get frustrated. So it’s all about getting the balance right.
We had this when we were fighting Denathrius, and one guild member was insistent and vocal that our P1 strat wasn’t working, and were getting themselves quite intense about it and wouldn’t let it go. I was able to pacify them and we were about to kill Denathrius fine, but any setback would make them return to their pet issue, even when it was not related to what wiped us. It’s not jus frustrating for the raid leader, but for everyone else. And while that person is harbouring on about their pet peeve, usually other people can’t speak, so it can be a bit dominating and all consuming.

Finally, guilds are social constructs of people. Whether it’s a guild, a group of friends or an organisation, managing people is one of the hardest things you can do. And not everyone who runs a guild is necessarily going to be a natural born leader, and you shouldn’t expect them to be. WoW is after all, a past time hobby, and guild leaders don’t get paid for taking on the extra community responsibilities (although we volunteer ourselves so usually it’s something we enjoy overall!). So it’s best to remember that.

People who make the experience less fun for the whole guild can sometimes be removed just for how they impact the atmosphere, whether they’re good at the game or not is irrelevant really.

[T-34]

Be more careful when you select what guild to join. Guilds are as different as the people that play the game.
You should find a guild where you fit in, not the other way around, unless you are the GM of a guild.

[reckleon]

There’s quite a few issues here so let me try unpick a few for you (I’m a guild leader myself)

Cliques: it’s natural when you are new that you feel like you’re hanging out with a group of friends but you don’t know anyone and they know each other too well, in essence because you are. It takes time to become part of the group.
Remember guilds often have a flow of people joining, and many of them start with good intentions but ‘disappear’ and aren’t active. It means it takes time for people to want to fully invest in befriending new people sometime.
If you are active, friendly and helpful, you will quickly become part of the core guild group however.

Yes sayers: it really depends on the situation and it’s hard to speak generally. Let me just say the other side of the argument for argument’s sake.
When you are raiding as a team the morale of the group is the single most important thing. You want people to enjoy themselves, believe in themselves and make the raid fun.
Sometimes when you are progressing you need to open the floor up so people can add their thoughts on what’s going wrong, and when this happens it’s fine to critique the strategy and come up with something that works better. Most people won’t have too many ego problems with this.
However it’s also important to avoid nitpicking on small things that are inconsequential to the bigger picture and just wear everyone down. On progression fights, but also kills you’ve done before. Sometimes you need to know what battles are worth fighting, and don’t second guess the raid leader for no reason, as it just slows everything up and people get frustrated. So it’s all about getting the balance right.
We had this when we were fighting Denathrius, and one guild member was insistent and vocal that our P1 strat wasn’t working, and were getting themselves quite intense about it and wouldn’t let it go. I was able to pacify them and we were about to kill Denathrius fine, but any setback would make them return to their pet issue, even when it was not related to what wiped us. It’s not jus frustrating for the raid leader, but for everyone else. And while that person is harbouring on about their pet peeve, usually other people can’t speak, so it can be a bit dominating and all consuming.

Finally, guilds are social constructs of people. Whether it’s a guild, a group of friends or an organisation, managing people is one of the hardest things you can do. And not everyone who runs a guild is necessarily going to be a natural born leader, and you shouldn’t expect them to be. WoW is after all, a past time hobby, and guild leaders don’t get paid for taking on the extra community responsibilities (although we volunteer ourselves so usually it’s something we enjoy overall!). So it’s best to remember that.

People who make the experience less fun for the whole guild can sometimes be removed just for how they impact the atmosphere, whether they’re good at the game or not is irrelevant really.

Ye i get this as ive managed a guild for 3 years myself and obviously everyone threats things differently. But with the clicks i didnt ment it in anegative way the negative part was more about talking behind echothers back. one group in the guild talks bad about the other group ina guild. i feel like the cassual guilds arent as a solid group as it was before. And the expereince isnt just about me its about other people in the guild who feel left out or w/e.
And when you keep looking for a place u get known as guildhopper as the guy above comments even tho ive been in a guild for a long time before my break.
But ye maybe im just a bit unlucky and the realm im in now has a different envoirment then the realm i was before the break maybe that could also add to the issue.