Seriously, what do you really want to see I. World of Warcraft ?

[Rustov]

Made in Abyss expansion. Ahn'Kahet the Zone, Old God origins/civilization, Titans, dwarves, goblins, underground forests, alien crystal caves, vertical zone stacking, ancient ruins, the works.

Actually I'm a little upset that they've scavenged Titan lore piecemeal for every unrelated expansion, watered it down so there's just not enough left for a proper Titan expansion.

[Jackstraw]

@Jackstraw - some clarification here:
Illidari is a night elf story as much as druids are. (that is heavily influenced and led)

No.
The Illidari tale is one completely divorced by any race and much like the Ebon Blade should remain just so. Illidan does not see himself as a Kaldorei, and his most loyal disciples do not see themselves as belonging to any given faction, save from one of his best Demon Hunters who openly opposes him.
See how am I not mentioning races here? Because these do not matter.
The Kaldorei restauration can go through other channels. Mardum is not one of them.

I won't even enter in all the demon hunting pertaining to Kaldorei only, we're way in too deep an headcanon already.

Ok, i get it.
But, i do wanna see the hatred towards them from Night elven society and the Wardens hunting them.

Why though. They do not belong to any society, be it Night or Blood elven, and their mission is way less extreme now.

[username993720]

Less focus on 'social justice'. Some of the statements put out by employees on social media and those hired to write novels are utterly bizarre.

Yes. Keep out real-life politics out of the game.
It's a fantasy RPG, for god sake. Let us be immersed in it.

Can you imagine if half orca came and we had a partially lore relatable group of orcsninternixed with handsome half human features like Warcraft movie Garona - orc popularity would swell.

Maybe as customization, like how Blood elves got half-elf ear options.
Mok'nathal shouldn't be forgotten, either.

Yeah. For dungeons, questing, groups. No access to capitals, tho.

And, not in lore.

I just want to see neat druid forms and totems for everyone. Also, why should there be no lore about that ? Monk and DK get a minimum of lore about them.

Exactly.
Do you want that minimum lore to be applied to anyone? that would shallow the lore even further.

If you want more potential Druid and Shaman races, go see my thread:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-combinations

Broken Draenei Allied Race and Furbolg Core Race for the Alliance
Alteraci Human Allied Race and Ogre Core Race for the Horde

The Krokul could be used for that.
Furbolg are part of the Alliance, but i don't know what skeleton they would use. Pandaren?
Alteraci Human could definitely use the thin Human model introduced in BfA. As for them being Horde, i'm not so sure, as the Laughing Skull also betrayed the Horde during the second war and they still ended up on the Horde.
Ogres are long overdue, and could definitely use the new Kul Tiran skeletons introduced in BfA.

You should have read what he wrote.

The situation has changed. They are not hunting demon hunters for using fel. The night elves hunted demons. It’s just that back then all and only legion associated used fel.

This is an age where non addicts use the arcane, non void Lord lackeys use the void and using fel doesn’t make you corrupted and twisted.

It doesn’t mean they welcome fel with open arms. It’s still dangerous and it’s open use likely banned

But the interaction with demon hunters would not be hunted or shouldn’t at least. It will be nuanced.

They’d likely be an understanding of mutual respect but let’s avoid each other. DHs would
Know not to corrupt areas with fel, a power they only use against enemies anyway.

Part of the night elf should be dedicated to exploring this.
@Tanaria the aftermath of the Legion events also needs to be explored and updated and should be done alongside that of the War of thorns for night elves.

It is just as significant. Failure to recognise this by blizz would demonstrate lack of interest or understanding of their own race’s lore.

They should be, at least, scolded by Night elf citizens, like Warlocks in Orgrimmar.

Actually I'm a little upset that they've scavenged Titan lore piecemeal for every unrelated expansion, watered it down so there's just not enough left for a proper Titan expansion.

Actually:

"Shadowlands delves deeper into the cosmology chart. We've explored some sections in past expansions--like Argus (Disorder) and Emerald Dream (Life). We've mostly seen Titans through their Azeroth expressions, but we haven't gotten to a proper Titan homeworld."

Why though. They do not belong to any society, be it Night or Blood elven, and their mission is way less extreme now.

Because they originated from that society.
I would also like to see hatreds from the Humans towards the Knights of the Ebon Blade, as Death Knights were mostly associated with Humans.

[Jackstraw]

Because they originated from that society.
I would also like to see hatreds from the Humans towards the Knights of the Ebon Blade, as Death Knights were mostly associated with Humans.

Their leader did, they as a collective do not. Maiev herself got over her fixation for Illidan, and the Illidari were instrumental in the earliest days of the Broken Shore, with their Azsuna contingent being the only other force deployed on the homefront with close to no forewarning.
There's no reason for them to be hunted.

Same goes for the Ebon Blade: whatever hatred was harbored all the way back during the Northrend campaign, it's now buried. Death Knights have been actively deployed in a number of missions for both the Horde and the Alliance, with Thassarian leading the Alliance operations in Andorhal.
It's a wish that has no legs to stand.

[username993720]

Their leader did, they as a collective do not. Maiev herself got over her fixation for Illidan, and the Illidari were instrumental in the earliest days of the Broken Shore, with their Azsuna contingent being the only other force deployed on the homefront with close to no forewarning.
There's no reason for them to be hunted.

Same goes for the Ebon Blade: whatever hatred was harbored all the way back during the Northrend campaign, it's now buried. Death Knights have been actively deployed in a number of missions for both the Horde and the Alliance, with Thassarian leading the Alliance operations in Andorhal.
It's a wish that has no legs to stand.

Well, seeing Demonic and Undead factions being accepted so easily is kinda ruining the fantasy.
At least show some friction with the Silver Hand or the Wardens towards them.

[Jackstraw]

Well, seeing Demonic and Undead factions being accepted so easily is kinda ruining the fantasy.
At least show some friction with the Silver Hand or the Wardens towards them.

There's been nothing easy about the acceptance of the factions towards the Illidari and the Ebon Blade. The quests show this positively enough, and there's still some resentment in the veterans of course, but it's mostly targeted towards the Death Knights rather than the Demon Hunters. As we know, the former were the chosen Lich King commando and the latter a fringe group who usually acted against the Legion alone, whereas in the Outlands we mostly fought the rest of Illidan's armies.

[DatToffer]

Yes. Keep out real-life politics out of the game.
It's a fantasy RPG, for god sake. Let us be immersed in it.

Kind of a shit take, your game is political whether you like it or not. Of course there are ways to do things, shit writing doesn't help bringing a modern political message in a fantasy setting. You can have gay Flynn and Shaw without having Flynn writing his exploration's notes like a 14 years old tumblr blogger.

Exactly.
Do you want that minimum lore to be applied to anyone? that would shallow the lore even further.

If you want more potential Druid and Shaman races, go see my thread:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-combinations

In vanilla class lore was one letter at lvl 2 and a few class quests. Not even race specific class quests.

You can recap the lore of a class-race combination with only one piece of flavor text from the class master at your noob zone.

Heck, the new noob zone doesn't even dive into the racial views of classes.

I'd rather have minimum lore which gives nudge for interpretation, than completely misplaced lore like the Kul tiran druids. Thornspeakers are just what gilnean druids should have been.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Kul Tiras and Zandalar should have joined earlier their respective factions, with the bombing of Theramore and Jaina's consequent trauma already making it the perfect occasion for Kul Tiras to come back in the story and rejoin the Alliance, instead of that cheap and short-lived "Jaina is the future of the Kirin Tor" storyline, while Vol'jin should have been the one to convince the Zandalari led by Rastakhan to join the Horde.

[Tanaria]

Correct. With only two playable races they can both afford to get their own separate stories as their races have dofferent challenges and views on the whole thing based on their history.

Whiles Raven may have elaborated on the night elf story. The blood elves can have one related to gaining the Outland fel elves and teritories of tuebLegion for the Illidari.

I can even see them dividing the territories. The night elf ones handling the Kalimdor and broken isle demon remnant while the Blood elves handling the Ek and Pandaren ones. And switching with each other when in faction teritories.

Pandaria are not on interest to the Illidari.
They might divide lands on their endless hunts, but the core of their base would be the Broken Isles, where both Sin'dorei and Kaldorei Demon Hunters would meet.

Plus what are "Fel Elves?" The only one are the Night Elf and Blood Elf Demon Hunters, as well as Felblood Elves and Felborne Elves - both of the latters being #TeamBurningLegion.
Blood Elf Demon Hunters don't shift in their pursuit of Demons and Legion associates. Just because they see a few felblood elves, they won't spare them. They will kill any and all associates of the Legion, just like their Night Elf counterparts. The last thing Blood Elf Demon Hunters would do is recruit Felblood Elves and Felborne into the Horde.

Oh. They are definitely Illidari. Not fel elves. Fel elves are doing other things.

Tbh. I’d like the San’kay. To be more involved with the blood elves. Face it despite what we want, I suspect the Illidari will always be a night elf centred thing, same as Druidism, Elunism and star/moon arcane magic.

I suspect they’d have similar issues with Illidari that we’d have with San’kayn, once enemies, now sorta friends but wondering if we can be trusted.

I think the San’layn would be a bit edgier tbf, than the demon hunters would be to them. Demon hunters for all the demonic stuff seem a fairly straightforward earnest type that want to rid the universe of demonic filth - they’re not complicated or morally grey, they are chaotic goid and pretty honourable.

Now San’layn just have that dangerous edge, like a viper, cunning, never entirely trustworthy, but a powerful ally yet too smart for to be entirely trusted.

Fortunately for us, we aren’t human, so they’d have a much harder time trying to put fox or manipulate us as we would them.

Okay. I still want that vampire theme badly. And vampire vs werewolves would be awesome. We should have the vamps, not the humans or forsaken.

True, but I was just thinking of continuing that story between the Sentinels and the San'layn. Add the Shen'dralar Highborne into this story and you've got an interesting story. You've got Shandris and Mordent, who are begrudgingly working together and you've got a Blood Princess, causing trouble in the south of Darkshore. Maybe some Blood Crystals which the Shen'dralar teleport back to Eldre'Thalas, so they can study them?

Of course, San'layn/Sin'dorei/Dark Ranger is also something that could be really cool.

[Mace]

They should be, at least, scolded by Night elf citizens, like Warlocks in Orgrimmar.

Why? The situation is very different.

Warlocks and demon hunters are quite different and seek/use this power for different ends.

The Kaldorei have misunderstood and wrongfully labelled a group that endured and sacrificed so much to save them. Why would the attitude be one of scolding now they know the truth of things for sure, which the lore shows us wasn’t the case prior to 7.0 events?

Why not remorse over them getting it wrong concerning the Illidari?

Wrongfully imprisoning and hunting the very people who were repeatedly working to save them and fight the very enemies they both hated. But couldn’t see past their fel usage?

Well post Legion the cat is out of the bag. Darnassians and all Kaldorei can see clearly Illidari are not and never were their enemies - after that treatment and still saving them after the sacrifice of a demon Hunter matches that of any night elf including the most dedicated Elunite - why would intelligent beings who understand the use of powerful magic that have a dangerous side including arcane and to a greater extent void, suddenly fail to understand after all the events in Legion that these are heroes they owe a serious apology just because they use fel? It makes no sense to proceed in that vein. Update your lore!

What is so hard to understand that they can respect, be grateful and even venerate demon hunters for their sacrifice and work but still not be open to fel usage in their community?

It’s not hard. I don’t see the Kaldorei ever embracing fel usage. It’s a terrible burden and sacrifice to wield as demon hunters do, and I think their society would not be open like the blood elves or even humans and Nightborne with fel, but likely have Illidari minded people with a great sense of anger and drive against demons to seek the Illidari. But hint and persecute them? No. The night elves don’t think like Maiev, and even Maiev has changed in attitude - the one who hated demon hunters and all magic not accessed through the orders teachiband with a vengeance. She is portrayed as very much singular in her beliefs, no other night elf thinks like Maiev did or does.


I suspect the Kaldorei would give them a wide berth because fel is quite corruptive but still value and respect them supporting them when the need arises. And feel a debt of gratitude towards them. I also think DHs know they aren’t suited for society or normal life they are not evil elves, they still have the noble mindset of their people, this is one of the sacrifices of the path of a demon Hunter

If you didn’t notice, by lore, druids and sentinels do not mix either. In the long vigil time they rarely came across each other (and rare for a night elf means centuries to millennia) and never worked together except in times of world threats presumably like the shifting sand and like wc3.


And there is no animosity between them no reason to distrust each other. The night elf. Life is very segregated. Even now, post isolation, most druids live in the forest, sentinels would be in towns and cities and patrols on very separate duties. They would come across each other more now but still sparingly as it would be the occasional Druid who visits a city or tie. And the off chance they see one on patrol - I don’t even think the Druid would shift to elf format to says hello. Most would be doing work in the barrow dens in the dream or in areas nature needed help.

It’s not going to be buddy buddy let’s live together like cities have or humans and Thalassians do. Like druids stick to forests demon hunters will only be seen if there is demonic activity. They’d be in fel infested areas and have almost zero cultural interaction with their kin.

It’s not to say exceptional cars like live or reuniting with family
Member thought dead won’t occur, but that would very much be the exception, not the rule.

Another Avenue they can outside is show demon hunters who give up the job and prefer to return to normal now the legion is done. That would be worth exploring too. But again this is the exception, not the rule because in theory without the Legion the powerful organised threat is gone but demons aren’t all gone and would still seek to cause havoc.

Azeroth still needs demon hunters. And they are best at hunting demons. With warlocks still around (not the player warlock) who like necromancer a would summon armies of demons to cease power, other demonic entities seeking to recreate legion like forces. There is still work for DHs - but exploring the odd case who returns or wants to return would be interesting.

3. Exploring how young male night elves are drawn to the Illidari after their awesome display of power , especially vengeance minded ones after the war of thorns would be interesting. Though Tyrande and true black moon is the official Avenue for those in vengeance over Teldrassil, you can imagine some young males would be very drawn to the Illidari.

[username993720]

Kind of a shit take, your game is political whether you like it or not. Of course there are ways to do things, shit writing doesn't help bringing a modern political message in a fantasy setting. You can have gay Flynn and Shaw without having Flynn writing his exploration's notes like a 14 years old tumblr blogger.

Well, it shouldn't be. You don't dive into a fantasy world to be reminded of real-world current politics. You do that to get away from it.

In vanilla class lore was one letter at lvl 2 and a few class quests. Not even race specific class quests.

You can recap the lore of a class-race combination with only one piece of flavor text from the class master at your noob zone.

Heck, the new noob zone doesn't even dive into the racial views of classes.

I'd rather have minimum lore which gives nudge for interpretation, than completely misplaced lore like the Kul tiran druids. Thornspeakers are just what gilnean druids should have been.

At least they're different from each other.
What do Monks and Death Knights have? "oh, we were all trained the same way by the Pandaren" or "we were all raised by the Lich King".
At least Pandaren had their own Monk lore and First Generation Death Knights differ from those of the latter generations.

Why? The situation is very different.

Warlocks and demon hunters are quite different and seek/use this power for different ends.

The Kaldorei have misunderstood and wrongfully labelled a group that endured and sacrificed so much to save them. Why would the attitude be one of scolding now they know the truth of things for sure, which the lore shows us wasn’t the case prior to 7.0 events?

Why not remorse over them getting it wrong concerning the Illidari?

Wrongfully imprisoning and hunting the very people who were repeatedly working to save them and fight the very enemies they both hated. But couldn’t see past their fel usage?

Well post Legion the cat is out of the bag. Darnassians and all Kaldorei can see clearly Illidari are not and never were their enemies - after that treatment and still saving them after the sacrifice of a demon Hunter matches that of any night elf including the most dedicated Elunite - why would intelligent beings who understand the use of powerful magic that have a dangerous side including arcane and to a greater extent void, suddenly fail to understand after all the events in Legion that these are heroes they owe a serious apology just because they use fel? It makes no sense to proceed in that vein. Update your lore!

What is so hard to understand that they can respect, be grateful and even venerate demon hunters for their sacrifice and work but still not be open to fel usage in their community?

It’s not hard. I don’t see the Kaldorei ever embracing fel usage. It’s a terrible burden and sacrifice to wield as demon hunters do, and I think their society would not be open like the blood elves or even humans and Nightborne with fel, but likely have Illidari minded people with a great sense of anger and drive against demons to seek the Illidari. But hint and persecute them? No. The night elves don’t think like Maiev, and even Maiev has changed in attitude - the one who hated demon hunters and all magic not accessed through the orders teachiband with a vengeance. She is portrayed as very much singular in her beliefs, no other night elf thinks like Maiev did or does.


I suspect the Kaldorei would give them a wide berth because fel is quite corruptive but still value and respect them supporting them when the need arises. And feel a debt of gratitude towards them. I also think DHs know they aren’t suited for society or normal life they are not evil elves, they still have the noble mindset of their people, this is one of the sacrifices of the path of a demon Hunter

If you didn’t notice, by lore, druids and sentinels do not mix either. In the long vigil time they rarely came across each other (and rare for a night elf means centuries to millennia) and never worked together except in times of world threats presumably like the shifting sand and like wc3.


And there is no animosity between them no reason to distrust each other. The night elf. Life is very segregated. Even now, post isolation, most druids live in the forest, sentinels would be in towns and cities and patrols on very separate duties. They would come across each other more now but still sparingly as it would be the occasional Druid who visits a city or tie. And the off chance they see one on patrol - I don’t even think the Druid would shift to elf format to says hello. Most would be doing work in the barrow dens in the dream or in areas nature needed help.

It’s not going to be buddy buddy let’s live together like cities have or humans and Thalassians do. Like druids stick to forests demon hunters will only be seen if there is demonic activity. They’d be in fel infested areas and have almost zero cultural interaction with their kin.

It’s not to say exceptional cars like live or reuniting with family
Member thought dead won’t occur, but that would very much be the exception, not the rule.

Another Avenue they can outside is show demon hunters who give up the job and prefer to return to normal now the legion is done. That would be worth exploring too. But again this is the exception, not the rule because in theory without the Legion the powerful organised threat is gone but demons aren’t all gone and would still seek to cause havoc.

Azeroth still needs demon hunters. And they are best at hunting demons. With warlocks still around (not the player warlock) who like necromancer a would summon armies of demons to cease power, other demonic entities seeking to recreate legion like forces. There is still work for DHs - but exploring the odd case who returns or wants to return would be interesting.

3. Exploring how young male night elves are drawn to the Illidari after their awesome display of power , especially vengeance minded ones after the war of thorns would be interesting. Though Tyrande and true black moon is the official Avenue for those in vengeance over Teldrassil, you can imagine some young males would be very drawn to the Illidari.

Holy mother of god... you write a lot.

Warlock also use their dark arts for 'good'. But, they are still drawn to power, eventually. Like how Illidan took the Skull of Gul'dan for his own means:


And Night Elves can, potentially, be Warlocks. They are in the RPG. The Shen'dralar themselves dealt with Demons.

[Mace]

Pandaria are not on interest to the Illidari.

That’s not relevant. They are dividing territories to patrol and hunt demonic activity. Pandanus will not be exempt from demons trying. I just didn’t list every territory.

Off course, no one says they have to split them between races for any area except faction-controlled ones. Part of their thing is how they are truly United as elves.

Still, I can see them serving their respective origin groups in ways that pertain to them without polarising them against each other.

They might divide lands on their endless hunts, but the core of their base would be the Broken Isles, where both Sin'dorei and Kaldorei Demon Hunters would meet.

Plus what are "Fel Elves?" The only one are the Night Elf and Blood Elf Demon Hunters, as well as Felblood Elves and Felborne Elves - both of the latters being #TeamBurningLegion.
Blood Elf Demon Hunters don't shift in their pursuit of Demons and Legion associates. Just because they see a few felblood elves, they won't spare them. They will kill any and all associates of the Legion, just like their Night Elf counterparts. The last thing Blood Elf Demon Hunters would do is recruit Felblood Elves and Felborne into the Horde.

Fel elves are meant to be the Fel blood elves in outland. Illidari aren't referred to as fel elves, but as Illidari, or demon elves - but if you ask me, they are essentially fel elves with tattoos. Felborne elves aren't fel elves but Felborne elves, but if you were to define fel elves as demonic or fel altered elves of any kind then you could add them to the list.

However the game specifically refers to the blood elves who joined the burning legion in TBC as seen in outland and the Sunwell Plateau, altered by fel magic as fel elves. not Illidari, not Felborne elves.

[Jackstraw]

Warlocks and demon hunters are quite different and seek/use this power for different ends.

The Kaldorei have misunderstood and wrongfully labelled a group that endured and sacrificed so much to save them. Why would the attitude be one of scolding now they know the truth of things for sure, which the lore shows us wasn’t the case prior to 7.0 events?

Except for the fact that there was no group whatsoever. Illidan was a single case, his demon within fully awakened in the W3 events, the Illidari formed way later as the Dark Portal reopened.
The Kaldorei had literally no possible exposure to the group as a whole.

I just don't understand this tirade you're on about. This is a neutral group at its core, with a clear base in Mardum (so the point about the Broken Isles being their meeting grounds leaves me perplexed). Having them return to their faction has no base outside of gameplay reasons: those Demon Hunters already relinquished their previous allegiances to serve under Illidan, the Azeroth conflicts are of seldom interest so far.

Of course in the future we might see Demon Hunters rise to prominence in faction politics, but their singular purpose did not end with Sargeras' imprisonment, and the Illidari still do their thing.

[Mace]

Holy mother of god... you write a lot.

Warlock also use their dark arts for 'good'. But, they are still drawn to power, eventually. Like how Illidan took the Skull of Gul'dan for his own means:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kpmHzRP0lAo/maxresdefault.jpg

And Night Elves can, potentially, be Warlocks. They are in the RPG. The Shen'dralar themselves dealt with Demons.

You necessitated the detail and further elaboration. The point was to show given the content of events, and the history so far, the attitude to the demon hunters would very different right now. In fact post legion, a lot of attitudes, stigmas and complexes the kaldorei had over the Legion and the events of the sundering would have changed. We can explore these in another topic if you like.

Anyone can potentially be a warlock, but currently the Shen’dralar are written as been freed from both addiction and demonic corruption and re-joining the Darnassians too, as Highborne, but willing to work with them. The attitude presented is one of the Farondis, i.e., the Kaldorei, and the Highborne elite before arrogance and hubris marred their nobility and corrupted them.

Shen'dralar are not likely at all to pick up the fel in this society, nor would they want to, any more than the Farondis Highborne or druids and priests.

That's not to say some lone rebel night elf might not, but there is a context to all of these things. Night elves, including Illidan hunted power for singular purpose of eradicating the demons, not out of megalomania or love of demons or power to rule and control people, which is the motivation of your standard warcraft warlock.

The player warlock is not necessarily cast as evil, so you can role play as a warlock who isn't bent on world domination, but loving demonic power, demons whether for use, slavery or power is the characterisation of the class, whiles for demon hunters, there is no love at all, they would enslave, consume demons to gain power to destroy demons totally. That is their purpose.

[Newname1234567890]

On the cosmic hierarchy; What gets me is the constant escalation of cosmic forces. The Old Gods where the apex but wait no actually its the Void Gods. Now it looks like the first ones over shadow everything. Truthfully I don't mind the standardisation of the cosmic into 6 distinct pantheons with realms of their own, I just don't want in three years to turn out theres a higher tier of God etc

On what I want; A decade time skip on Azeorth. Focused on rebuilding and repairing the damage from the rest of wow. Decentralised narrative with a more focused heritage like story (eg Human characters main storyline is to help re-establish some of the fallen kingdoms of man). Heavily downplay the Horde- alliance eternal war, in fact make one raid the equivalent to the Wow Olympics. After this writers have a clean slate from which to build on, but I'd prefer to see localized Azeorth story or demonstrations of the Cosmic forces power over resolving them (eg Go to K'arresh and maybe have the final raid be preventing a Void Lord crossing Vs going to the Void and killing all the Void Lords)

[Tanaria]

That’s not relevant. They are dividing territories to patrol and hunt demonic activity. Pandanus will not be exempt from demons trying. I just didn’t list every territory.

Off course, no one says they have to split them between races for any area except faction controlled ones. Part of their thing is how they are truly United as elves.

Still I can see them serving their respective origin groups in ways that pertain to them without polarising them against each other.

I reckon if their Legion activity anywhere, the Illidari will deal with it, regardless of the location. It won't be a case of - demon activity in Azshara, well we'll just send the night elf demon hunters to check that.
Or a demonic portal has been summoned in the Jade Forest, well we'll just send the Sin'dorei Demon Hunter to check that.

It could be on the borders of Ashenvale, the outskirts of Quel'Thalas or in Stormheim - all Demon Hunters, regardless of their racial origin, will take themselves to Legion spawn points.

[Mace]

Except for the fact that there was no group whatsoever. Illidan was a single case, his demon within fully awakened in the W3 events, the Illidari formed way later as the Dark Portal reopened.
The Kaldorei had literally no possible exposure to the group as a whole.

Illidan may have been the only demon hunter shown in WC3, but he wasn't the only demon hunter, there were other night elf demon hunters who'd also been around for millennia. Illyana Ravencrest is one of them, and she isn't the only one.

Check out Legion expansion lore.


Illidan would be a prime example and representation of the group, whether it was formed as the Illidari we know today or not, their view of all demon hunters and all people gathered by him or under him is directly linked to their view of him. If they viewed Illidan as a legion agent who betrayed their people by reforming the Well of Eternity to call the legion back - then that is how they viewed all demon hunters and Illidari followers of Illidan.

The view is iterated many times in both TBC and Illidan the novel. Illidan is a representation of how the night elves view both him and all who follow him as Illidari. And they were wrong about them, just as they were wrong about some of their assumptions concerning the banning of arcane magic.

I just don't understand this tirade you're on about.

Tirade? Why is this a tirade? I'm not angry nor ranting, just calmly exploring the implications of the events of the Legion expansion in the context of the lore to explain to username why his idea of kaldorei reaction to Illidari isn't likely and actually counter to the developments and advances shown in the story.

It necessitated the volume, but it wasn't a tirade.

This is a neutral group at its core, with a clear base in Mardum (so the point about the Broken Isles being their meeting grounds leaves me perplexed). Having them return to their faction has no base outside of gameplay reasons: those Demon Hunters already relinquished their previous allegiances to serve under Illidan, the Azeroth conflicts are of seldom interest so far.

Of course in the future we might see Demon Hunters rise to prominence in faction politics, but their singular purpose did not end with Sargeras' imprisonment, and the Illidari still do their thing.

I'm not suggesting they return to their faction, you’d know this if you actually read what I said. I am discussing how they would interact with their kin, lest you forget you play a demon hunter night elf hero who is canonically involved with the things of the night elves.

I'm neither ruling out or saying they would /wouldn't return to their faction, that is something the developers can do if they will to do, it is beyond my control. We could discuss its likelihood which is ab it pointless since it isn't up to us), we could discuss how or why it could happen in the context of events if you're interested.


I'm quite fine with the Illidari being exactly as they are, , but would like to see them interact more with their race, and there is some apologies to be made and reconciliation from the Darnassians I'd like to see happen The demon hunter is a night elf based and led group, so it would be nice to see it play more of a role in their affairs..

This is different from them outright joining the night elves, and it doesn’t preclude demon hunters being more involved with night elf affairs. . most of the time we see Illidan in WC3, and the DHs it is with respect to the night elves and their struggle against the legion.

I don't expect the demon hunters to be completely void of the kaldorei, why should they be? it's a part of the kaldorei race story, even if , like druidism, other races have come to be involved. This is just how warcraft is written

Night elves birthed the mage class, the druid class and the demon hunter class, and the Elune order of priests. in game, the druid and demon hunter are modelled on that race, but the mage isn't, mage is modelled on the high elf/human vein, but the lore connects that back to the night elf although the mage class is missing night elf racial influences, while it does have Thalassian ones (take the fire spec's phoenix talent)

Druids aren't the night elves but because we have a high number of leading druids as night elves means we can expect part of the night elf story to involve druids, especially night elf druids even if they are not affiliated to the Darnassians. Same with the Illidari, because the majority of it's senior leadership is night elven we can expect night elf stories to feature them, and I would expect the larger bulk of demon hunter related things to be in the night elf category. not all, I expect stories for blood elves too, but again, the context of the class is largely in relation to the night elves... it's just how it is.

but it's not limited to them and doesn't have to stay there.

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I reckon if their Legion activity anywhere, the Illidari will deal with it, regardless of the location. It won't be a case of - demon activity in Azshara, well we'll just send the night elf demon hunters to check that.
Or a demonic portal has been summoned in the Jade Forest, well we'll just send the Sin'dorei Demon Hunter to check that.

It could be on the borders of Ashenvale, the outskirts of Quel'Thalas or in Stormheim - all Demon Hunters, regardless of their racial origin, will take themselves to Legion spawn points.

Yeh, I can be down with that, I would expect them to be monitoring Azeroth and be organised watching for demonic activity from headquarters on the other side of the broken shore.

I always imagined the Priesthood of Elune to restore the Cathedral of Eternal night, and you have this beautiful lush restored section, in stark contrast to the other end of the isle dripping with fel and an interesting relationship between the two establish.

But the DHs focused on hunting demons. They'd have little bases in all the fel tinged areas around Azeroth, and probably be stationed in many locations, I expect the mixing to be random too, I don't think they would decide to pick based on race except in faction territories.

[Tanaria]

I'm quite fine with the Illidari being exactly as they are, , but would like to see them interact more with thier race, and there is some apologies to be made and reconicliation from the Darnassians I'd like to see happen The demon huynter is a night elf based and led group, so it owuldbe nice to see it play more of a role in thier affiars..

But where does that leave Blood Elf Demon Hunters? They are Illidari just as much as they nelf counterparts. I mean forget the whole "Outland/Fel Elf" nonsense, since that whole thing with the Blood Elves died in TBC - when the Silvermoon Blood Elves stepped through the Dark Portal and were horrified to discover the land and what the Sunfury were doing.

The Blood Elves, during Legion, shunned the Demon Hunters as "freaks." We know this via the Blood Elf Demon Hunter boss in Vault of the Wardens.

This is a very interesting avenue to explore, as you wouldn't expect this from the Blood Elves.

I always imagined the Priesthood of Leune to restore the Cathedral of Etenral night, and you have this beautiful lush restored section, in stark contrast to the other end of the isle dripping with fel and an interesting relationship between the two establish.

It depends on whether the Night Elves want to spend those efforts on trying to restore the Temple. I mean, with their people battered after BFA - it seems that most of their efforts are to return to Kalimdor. I mean, if Blizzard do a Kalimdor/EK revamp, it's possible that a new temple, combining both the classic Temples of Elune, like the Darnassus one and the Temples that we see around the Broken Isles and Zin-Azshari, are made into one.
I do favor creating a huge Temple over the Well of Eternity, but having glass-like marble stone to where Tyrande and Malfurion stand and the second Well of Eternity, becomes a giant Moonwell.

I mean, not even the Nightborne are all that interested in the Tomb of Sargeras.

[Beloren]

@Mace and @Tanaria

I would like to see both night elves and blood elves actually not distinguish between the demon hunters' race and view them as pretty much the same.

However I kinda get the impression that realistically, the blood elves would try to connect more to the blood elf demon hunters, but the night elves will view them both as the same.

Established lore though kinda showed us the blood elves under Kael'thas were fine with the night elf leadership of the Illidari, if they had any anti-night elf qualms they didn't show. It further confirms my suspicion, that blood elves have a thing against the Darnasisan group that kicked them out, more so than any other night elf group - which explains why they get on so well with the nightborne and are fine with the Illidari. I wouldn't be surprised if they are fine with the Moonguard from the broken isle too.

I suspect they were fine with the Shen'dralar too who remember originally taught them item reforging , but then the NPCs changed from night elf to blood elf, and we saw the Shen'dralar no more mix with the blood elves, maybe because they wouldn't leave the Darnassians or because they allied with them, and thus are hated by them.

[DatToffer]

Well, it shouldn't be. You don't dive into a fantasy world to be reminded of real-world current politics. You do that to get away from it.

You can provide escapism and still tackle matters aside from the very consensual topics of "war bad" "together strong" "be excellent to each other". You can address relatable topics, in your universe. It just has to be made well. But we can agree that for now, WoW isn't good at either the consensual shit, the modern shit or the escapism.

At least they're different from each other.
What do Monks and Death Knights have? "oh, we were all trained the same way by the Pandaren" or "we were all raised by the Lich King".
At least Pandaren had their own Monk lore and First Generation Death Knights differ from those of the latter generations.

Why would they need more ? First generations DK are a thing of the past, there's one mention of different DK being possible is from an old Metzen interview. You don't have any obligation to provide a shit ton of flavor text or quests in order to illustrate a variety of class variations. You can show a few examples here and there. Only roleplayers care about playing a warrior that was not trained by the dude from his noob zone anyway and we can grasp any piece of information to make that happen.

Sure it was nice to have a little context for the introduction of certain race-class combinations, like the human/UD hunters, the priests/paladin tauren. But some others like BE warrior or Hunter gnomes don't need that kind of explanation.

Also you know what, class-race restrictions are what deprived us of Warlock Zandalari and Warlock/Paladin KT. For the sake of not having all classes available to a few races, they cut some combinations, while shoe-horning druids to both of them, again for the sake of I dunno, faction equity or something.