Battles and conflicts that should have happened in the story

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

It's the Burning Legion that should have burned Teldrassil, destroyed the Undercity and pushed Tyrande to go through the Night Warrior ritual.

At least they were enough of a threat with the right numbers, attack power and magic abilities to penetrate in Night Elves' territories enough to overcome the Night Elves' guerilla and their allies and force them to retreat, set the extremely large and humide Teldrassil on fire with their fel fire and firepower and to push Tyrande to be desperate enough to go through the NW ritual.

[AlmightyGerkin]

War of the ancients should have been a raid and not a dungeon. Would have been cool seeing all the lore characters doing things and eventually just about to leave you see the well of eternity implode.

[Sondrelk]

At least for BfA specifically I would have loved to see a fully fledged naval battle between the Alliance/Kul Tiran fleet and the Horde/Zandalari fleet. It was literally the entire reason we supposedly went to Kul Tiras, and the battle was pointed to several times as a cornestone of the ongoing conflict, and yet the most we see is the single Zandalari ship following the Kul Tiran fleet.

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War of the ancients should have been a raid and not a dungeon. Would have been cool seeing all the lore characters doing things and eventually just about to leave you see the well of eternity implode.

Looking back I still think Blizzard really shot themselves in the foot by using all the good ideas in the three dungeons, and leaving the raid so anemic of creativity.
The fight against Archbishop benedictus is probably one of the more awesome fights in that entire patch and its relegated to a dungeon while filler like Yor'sahj gets a pass as a raid boss.

[sighy]

It's the Burning Legion that should have burned Teldrassil, destroyed the Undercity and pushed Tyrande to go through the Night Warrior ritual.

At least they were enough of a threat with the right numbers, attack power and magic abilities to penetrate in Night Elves' territories enough to overcome the Night Elves' guerilla and their allies and force them to retreat, set the extremely large and humide Teldrassil on fire with their fel fire and firepower and to push Tyrande to be desperate enough to go through the NW ritual.

Night Elves always get their shit pushed in early and slowly push their enemies back with a thousand cuts using guerilla warfare and nature magic. Their tendency to lose initially can largely be attributed to them not really building any defensive fortifications. So a hard and fast attack meant to destroy something specific would be the most effective way to attack the Night Elves.

Every time from War of the Ancients, until now it was the same kind of story. (Before War of the Ancients it was mostly the Highborne fireballing the shit out of stuff so doesn't really count in favor of the racial subfaction that specifically was anti-mage, until very recently. Which basically amounted to not trying to kill the small group in Feralas. (Unless your name was Maiev, inw hich case you went so hard on it you nearly killed Malfurion)

[username993720]

I'm saying the whole situation is contrived as hell if you take into account the way WC3 ended for those races. If you take the Knaak books into account it's even more contrived, because of Broxigar. I get the out of game reasons Blizzard did these things, but the Night Elves basically had their unique identity assassinated to fit the aliance mold. Granted in the years since a similar thing happened tot he Horde on several occasions, but yeah

You made them out to be savages. They still have a somewhat "modern" culture. They fit the Alliance as much as other elves, just that they accentuate the Woodland elf more. That doesn't make them Horde.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Night Elves always get their shit pushed in early and slowly push their enemies back with a thousand cuts using guerilla warfare and nature magic. Their tendency to lose initially can largely be attributed to them not really building any defensive fortifications. So a hard and fast attack meant to destroy something specific would be the most effective way to attack the Night Elves.

Every time from War of the Ancients, until now it was the same kind of story. (Before War of the Ancients it was mostly the Highborne fireballing the shit out of stuff so doesn't really count in favor of the racial subfaction that specifically was anti-mage, until very recently. Which basically amounted to not trying to kill the small group in Feralas. (Unless your name was Maiev, inw hich case you went so hard on it you nearly killed Malfurion)

Well that wasn't shown during the War of Thorns, the Horde should have had all the difficulties against the Night Elves, the Worgens and their allies taking advantage of the environment, hiding, ambushing them or attacking them at their weak points, retreating before the Horde could properly react, targeting Horde supplies, etc...

Not counting that it would have realistically taken weeks if not months for the Horde to go from the borders of Ashenvale to the shores of Darkshore and with crippling casualties all the way. The whole burning Teldrassil thing was dumb as fuck with catapults which range is dozens of meters at best, somehow being able of hitting a titanic tree on an island, and some ordinary fire projectile being able of setting a titanic tree (with ordinary trees being already much harder to set on fire than it looks like) with rivers and lakes and druids and mages on it.

But then again Knaak made the Night Elves somehow lose in Wolfheart just because of a bunch of Magnataurs, during the same book Tyrande was somehow unable of inflicting more damage with her powers than just blinding her foes with Elune's light, and it took until BFA for Maiev, Malfurion, Jarod and the Highborne and their students to fight for their people.

[sighy]

You made them out to be savages. They still have a somewhat "modern" culture. They fit the Alliance as much as other elves, just that they accentuate the Woodland elf more. That doesn't make them Horde.

The "somewhat modern culture" is likely to be incorporated under the blanket of "Changed to fit the aliance better". Departing the WC3 concept to make them more regal and dignified. Literally the first line that describes them on screen is "Far too tall and far too savage"

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

There should have been at least dozens of conflicts between human kingdoms in the past over territorial, economical or dynastic rivalries. Between Alterac and Stromgarde of course but also between Gilneas and possibly another kingdom against Kul Tiras, between Gilneas and Stromgarde, Dalaran and Lordaeron, etc...

[starstationprofm]

Tauren vs Dwarves

All the digging pisses of the Earthmother. It's time that the two most ignored races in WoW get some love.

This never made any sense. So the Tauren are mad about the dwarves excavating but Orgrimmar was literally made with Goblin excavations. The Orcs are way more harmful to the earth than Dwarves are.

[sighy]

Well that wasn't shown during the War of Thorns, the Horde should have had all the difficulties against the Night Elves, the Worgens and their allies taking advantage of the environment, hiding, ambushing them or attacking them at their weak points, retreating before the Horde could properly react, targeting Horde supplies, etc...

Not counting that it would have realistically taken weeks if not months for the Horde to go from the borders of Ashenvale to the shores of Darkshore and with crippling casualties all the way. The whole burning Teldrassil thing was dumb as fuck with catapults which range is dozens of meters at best, somehow being able of hitting a titanic tree on an island, and some ordinary fire projectile being able of setting a titanic tree (with ordinary trees being already much harder to set on fire than it looks like) with rivers and lakes and druids and mages on it.

But then again Knaak made the Night Elves somehow lose in Wolfheart just because of a bunch of Magnataurs, during the same book Tyrande was somehow unable of inflicting more damage with her powers than just blinding her foes with Elune's light, and it took until BFA for Maiev, Malfurion, Jarod and the Highborne and their students to fight for their people.

The lack of early resistance is explained by the army of rogues clearing all sentries and garrisons, until the actual invading vanguard was basically at Astanaar, after which it took the NEs until the Horde was at Zoram'gar to mobilise much of anything save Malf kicking Saurfang's ass. (Travel time in warcraft has always been wierdly funky and never made sense or was any measure of consistent)

I agree that the demolishers were stupid and did my fair share of memeing on it, when it was relevant.

It was probably done to establish how useful Worgen are and how badass the sheer force of Varian's human potential is. Maiev was a fugitive between Cata and Legion technically, Malf is either missing or has his power levels wildly fluctuate between Knaak and not Knaak writers and the Highborne were probably too few to do much more than train other NEs to do magic.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

The lack of early resistance is explained by the army of rogues clearing all sentries and garrisons, until the actual invading vanguard was basically at Astanaar, after which it took the NEs until the Horde was at Zoram'gar to mobilise much of anything save Malf kicking Saurfang's ass. (Travel time in warcraft has always been wierdly funky and never made sense or was any measure of consistent)

I agree that the demolishers were stupid and did my fair share of memeing on it, when it was relevant.

It was probably done to establish how useful Worgen are and how badass the sheer force of Varian's human potential is. Maiev was a fugitive between Cata and Legion technically, Malf is either missing or has his power levels wildly fluctuate between Knaak and not Knaak writers and the Highborne were probably too few to do much more than train other NEs to do magic.

I really strongly doubt that realistically all of Night Elves' sentinels and own rogues who are themselves very agile and good at stealth and have superhuman hearing and perfect knowledge of their forrests and other territories wouldn't be able of noticing relatively quickly any invading force in their territories and of warning their brethren, nor that even the best assasins and rogues would be able of eliminating them all.

It's tremendously hard if not outright impossible to beat people specialized in guerilla and who know their own territory, such as the Talibans or Vietcong, at stealth or take them by surprise for very long in their homeland.

The same goes for the Forrest and Jungle Trolls in their homelands as the Aqir and the Bleeding Hollow clan found out the hard way.

[sighy]

I really strongly doubt that realistically all of Night Elves' sentinels and own rogues who are themselves very agile and good at stealth and have superhuman hearing and perfect knowledge of their forrests and other territories wouldn't be able of noticing relatively quickly any invading force in their territories and of warning their brethren, nor that even the best assasins and rogues would be able of eliminating them all.

It's tremendously hard if not outright impossible to beat people specialized in guerilla and who know their own territory, such as the Talibans or Vietcong, at stealth or take them by surprise for very long in their homeland.

The same goes for the Forrest and Jungle Trolls in their homelands as the Aqir and the Bleeding Hollow clan found out the hard way.

You mean how the cities got conquered quickly and then the Soviets/USA spent decades trying to dig them out of the hills? Doesn't work as a point against the Horde reaching Teldrassil being possible.

It was a planned out operation, with detailed information regarding their posts and/or garrisons. Probably gotta suspend your disbelief on the scale of the op, but it's plausible enough to me.

Not sure what Shattered Hand vs Forest Troll conflict you're referring to, but the Aqir vs Empire of Zul war was a colossal meatgrinder, which irreparably broke the troll empire despite them technically coming out on top. And that was all of the trolls.

[username993720]

The "somewhat modern culture" is likely to be incorporated under the blanket of "Changed to fit the aliance better". Departing the WC3 concept to make them more regal and dignified. Literally the first line that describes them on screen is "Far too tall and far too savage"

Nothing about them sounded or seemed as savage as the Orcs. Sorry to tell you, but aesthetically, they don't fit the Horde much.

[Doomchicken]

I would have liked to have seen a horde vs alliance war in WoW where the alliance don't look like a bunch of incompetent morons 90-95 percent of the time. Even if they lost it still would have been far more satisfying than what we got.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

You mean how the cities got conquered quickly and then the Soviets/USA spent decades trying to dig them out of the hills? Doesn't work as a point against the Horde reaching Teldrassil being possible.

It was a planned out operation, with detailed information regarding their posts and/or garrisons. Probably gotta suspend your disbelief on the scale of the op, but it's plausible enough to me.

Not sure what Shattered Hand vs Forest Troll conflict you're referring to, but the Aqir vs Empire of Zul war was a colossal meatgrinder, which irreparably broke the troll empire despite them technically coming out on top. And that was all of the trolls.

I mean how both the soviets and the americans and also the french and the chinese in the Viet case, despite all their firepower and tech couldn't manage to get real and durable gains against or reduce an invisible and very adaptable and mobile foe.

And unlike modern armies the Horde doesn't have tons of air and motorized transports to help their mobility so they can take and conquer cities in a blitzkrieg way, most of them still have to rely on their feets.

And I was talking about the Old Horde vs Gurubashi Trolls conflict during the First War with a portion of the Horde led by the Bleeding Hollow clan seeking to take Stranglehorn Vale only to fail to get any real gain against the Gurubashi Trolls' guérilla and mastery of their jungles. Same for the trolls during the Troll wars who despite their losses still managed to get the victory against the Aqir that were incredibly far more numerous than them and couldn't get any real gain against them.

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Anyway this whole War of Thorns and BFA as a whole were complete mess and nonsense, and I have already expressed my exact opinion about them many times.

[sighy]

I mean how both the soviets and the americans and also the french and the chinese in the Viet case, despite all their firepower and tech couldn't manage to get real and durable gains against or reduce an invisible and very adaptable and mobile foe.

And unlike modern armies the Horde doesn't have tons of air and motorized transports to help their mobility so they can take and conquer cities in a blitzkrieg way, most of them still have to rely on their feets.

And I was talking about the Old Horde vs Gurubashi Trolls conflict during the First War with a portion of the Horde led by the Bleeding Hollow clan seeking to take Stranglehorn Vale only to fail to get any real gain against the Gurubashi Trolls' guérilla and mastery of their jungles. Same for the trolls during the Troll wars who despite their losses still managed to get the victory against the Aqir that were incredibly far more numerous than them and couldn't get any real gain against them.

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Anyway this whole War of Thorns and BFA as a whole were complete mess and nonsense, and I have already expressed my exact opinion about them many times.

Yes, BfA was a shitshow and i said as much on many occasions, however i don't have problem with the Horde pulling a fast one on them, with a decisive focussed swift maneuver. Also they just needed to clear the ones directly in/around their planned path. The night Elves have consistently proven to have an inability to fend off initial incursions deep into their territory precisely because they rely on the guerilla warfare, which is a problem when you're trying to hold a teritory or exploring a territory you're unfamiliar with neither of which is true for the Horde in Ashenvale, in War of Thorns. The event had many issues, but tbh this wasn't one for me.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Yes, BfA was a shitshow and i said as much on many occasions, however i don't have problem with the Horde pulling a fast one on them, with a decisive focussed swift maneuver. Also they just needed to clear the ones directly in/around their planned path. The night Elves have consistently proven to have an inability to fend off initial incursions deep into their territory precisely because they rely on the guerilla warfare, which is a problem when you're trying to hold a teritory or exploring a territory you're unfamiliar with neither of which is true for the Horde in Ashenvale, in War of Thorns. The event had many issues, but tbh this wasn't one for me.

Far easier said that done to clear up the sentinels, rogues or wardens of a race with innate very great agility and speed, and even greater stealth with their ability to meld in the shadows, and who know these forrests far better than the Horde. If the story had been consistent with that most NE towns and settlements would have been warned and started to prepare their defenses or evacuated well before the Horde arrived to them. Not counting that Azeroth regions are far bigger that what is shown in game and that a big army would need important and consistent supply lines to make such a travel, which could have been well targeted by the Night Elves and their allies.

But we have talked much about it and our opinions seem really different on this subject, so let's agree to disagree.

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The Burning Legion was certainely in a hurry to reach Kalimdor and Nordrassil during the Third War, they didn't even try to go south of Lordaeron and Dalaran with the other human kingdoms (Stormwind, Gilneas, Stromgarge, Kul Tiras) as well as the dwarves, the gnomes (who were dealing with the Troggs and Thermaplugg's horrific betrayal), the trolls and the other inhabitants of the Eastern Kingdoms having been completely sparred by the demonic invasion.

We can only wonder what would have happened and how much time and casualties it would have taken for them if they had decided to ravage the rest of the EK before going to Kalimdor.

[Inci]

Talanji should have died instead of Rastakhan.

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But of course, they wanted to promote a new "powerful" female character.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

We have never seen a battle between the Scourge and dwarves or gnomes. I wonder how a Scourge attack on Ironforge and Gnomeregan would have looked like.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

During Legion we should have seen the Burning Legion attack Icecrown Citadel and Bolvar in order to destroy the Scourge or take back the control of it so they could use the undeads to reinforce their armies again; the demons should have also tried to cleanse Azeroth of its Old Gods' forces such as the Twilight Hammer, the Qiraji in Silithus or the Mantids in Pandaria or the N'raqi and Iron Army remnants in Northrend.

The Elemental Lords and Odyn and his Valjarlar also promised that they would fight the demons but we never saw it happening.