Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    What's your point.
    Blizzard doesn't allow me to queue into a guild either, so it allows people to be toxic when picking their guildies?
    What does guild have to do with LFG?
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    What does guild have to do with LFG?
    What does Blizzards decision to not allow random group for difficult content to do with the problem -since you randomly started mentioning it?
    Normal/HC/Mythic has the same "issue" - that's isn't actually an issue at all.

    Same thing with guilds.
    I have to pick the guys I play with or apply to a certain guild I want to play with.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    Right, but coming back to my case, Mythic+ is too punishing, hence why keystone holders are taking the time to find that perfect group not realising that they are declining vast majority of the sign ups. The problem here is that Blizzard made the Mythic+ in a way that breeds that kind of behaviour.
    I decline vast majority of sign ups because vast majority of people can't get into the party? You get 60 sign ups for 2 spots. If m+ didn't deplete keys or was way easier, I would still invite best people who sign up because that's logical and rational.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    Who's to blame here?
    [1]Blizzard for developing such systems where it breeds toxic behaviour or the type of players that are in the WoW Community?
    The game has been designed to focus on raiding/mythic/pvp, and in a way that encourages competitiveness and player segregation since being inefficient or unoptimized will get in the way of other player's ability to attain their goals. I can see how that can be considered toxic to people especially when there are multiple cases of poor behavior, but for many others, this is common sense since their satisfaction comes from working towards clearing those type of content.

    I think this is a very simple concept of: if you don't like the group, then don't join them. WoW's end-game content is something I don't like to engage with because I prefer a game to be a RPG first, and optimization second. So I've come to terms that WoW isn't for me, and the only thing I enjoy is the story content that I can do for 1-2 months at the end of every expansion.

    I'd suggest others who feel that way to make a similar conclusions because there's nothing to be gained from trying to force them to change their entire design philosophy just cause you had an amazing experience in WoTLK. If the entire m+, endgame raiding, or high-level PvP isn't your cup of tea, then leave instead of going through this entire drama of "who is to blame at the end of the day?" Cause, quite honestly, the only person you have to blame is yourself for subjecting yourself to something you don't enjoy.

  5. #145
    Players: for being toxic manchildren pretty often

    Blizzard: for not reacting to toxic behavior strongly enough.

    If you get slapped with a monthly ban for using insults, and second time it happens for half a year, you learn (or you are removed from the fray at least). Blizzard seems too lenient, for whatever reason, on such people.
    Armory Link
    Mount Collection

    Everything wrong with gamers in one sentence:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavox View Post
    I want Activision-Blizzard to burn, but for crimes against gaming, not because they got me too'd.

  6. #146
    Blizzard for making a system where only one person has a stake in the risk. The key holder takes on all risk involved better systems would have every risk some thing in a run or would remove risk by having the difficulties be something that is just selected rather then it being a commodity.

  7. #147
    The problem is that a lot of people wanna play a MMO like a solo game and do ALL content available. 99% of time you will be declined because there are applicants with better resume than you (ilvl, class, IO) and the keyholder doesnt have a reason to invite you over them. It is not about toxicity.

    You have 4 easy ways to fix this problem:

    1- Play a tank/healer, If you are competent, people will fight over you in their Group.

    2- Join a guild and talk to people.

    3- Use your own key, then you can invite whoever you want.

    4- Go play a solo game, It probably will suit you better.

    The only thing Blizzard could do to help alleviate this problem is to create some incentives to tank/healers (a bag of gold, extra item for the tank/healer). Or maybe give a bag of gold to players who bring low ilvl people on their runs (boosters would love It).

    But I belive any player can fix this issue, to themselves, with some effort. And stop act like strangers on a virtual world own you something.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    What does Blizzards decision to not allow random group for difficult content to do with the problem -since you randomly started mentioning it?
    Normal/HC/Mythic has the same "issue" - that's isn't actually an issue at all.

    Same thing with guilds.
    I have to pick the guys I play with or apply to a certain guild I want to play with.
    If you could queue for mythic+ you wouldn't have the discussed problem, at all. People who want a premade would be forming parties manually, people who don't want to deal with elitist creeps - would match in a queue. Eventually, everyone will be using the queue except for fully formed parties of friends or guildies. Zero toxicity in both. Since it's difficult content everyone in the random party would want to win and act accordingly. The trolls will get blocked.

    The same reason normal, heroic, and mythic raids should be queue-able. There's absolutely no reason no to allow that. Except for Blizzard's idiocy.


    So I ask again what do the guilds have to do with that?
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    If you could queue for mythic+ you wouldn't have the discussed problem, at all. People who want a premade would be forming parties manually, people who don't want to deal with elitist creeps - would match in a queue. Eventually, everyone will be using the queue except for fully formed parties of friends or guildies. Zero toxicity in both. Since it's difficult content everyone in the random party would want to win and act accordingly. The trolls will get blocked.

    The same reason normal, heroic, and mythic raids should be queue-able. There's absolutely no reason no to allow that. Except for Blizzard's idiocy.


    So I ask again what do the guilds have to do with that?
    People couldn't even queue for Heroics being hard in Cata without being toxic.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    People couldn't even queue for Heroics being hard in Cata without being toxic.
    There will always be toxic people. So it shouldn't be the goal to get rid of them. The goal is to reduce the opportunities for people to be toxic.

    The toxicity in Cata came primarily from guild groups who needed 1-2 more people. Totally random groups were fine.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    There will always be toxic people. So it shouldn't be the goal to get rid of them. The goal is to reduce the opportunities for people to be toxic.
    Yes, and people making their own groups is the best way to do so because they get those they will get along with, as opposed to having people they dont want to work with being forced upon them.

    How is declining someone a spot on a limited team toxic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    The toxicity in Cata came primarily from guild groups who needed 1-2 more people. Totally random groups were fine.
    I would say my experience in cata was quite the opposite, with random groups being a waste of time and partial guild runs being rather smooth. You can even see it today in LFR where if its full of randos content has to have its difficulty continously nerfed into oblivion because randoms dont want to properly communicate.

    But supposing I am wrong and you are right. So are you saying you'd ban guilds from using a queue to fill their raid slots then?

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    Yes, and people making their own groups is the best way to do so because they get those they will get along with, as opposed to having people they dont want to work with being forced upon them.

    How is declining someone a spot on a limited team toxic?
    Declining someone in itself is not toxic. Just think who gets picked and based on what superficial criteria. This is a system that breeds toxicity without requiring people to be toxic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    But supposing I am wrong and you are right. So are you saying you'd ban guilds from using a queue to fill their raid slots then?
    Lol, no. I would just allow queueing for any content. The freedom will sort everything out.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  13. #153
    Scarab Lord Motorman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Any posh place
    Posts
    4,770
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Just don't try to act with authority
    You are right acting with authority is a reserved privilege and I seem to have stepped in your toes by saying an opinion you dislike.

    Please accept my deepest apologies. Meanwhile WoW is rotting in a sea of paid boosters while the rest of us hope and pray that “New World” will stop frying GPUs so we can either move there or be left alone in WoW so we can salvage it by playing as friends again and not as paying customers of other players.

    The vast majority of pvp is boosted at the moment and at least half the M+ but it’s a growing trend.

    Instead of denying that problem exists people should find solutions. Unless ofc they are also selling boosts then ofc they wouldn’t want that.

    Since it is obvious that we disagree and you insult me in all your posts I ll drop this subject. You can continue arguing alone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Declining someone in itself is not toxic. Just think who gets picked and based on what superficial criteria. This is a system that breeds toxicity without requiring people to be toxic.
    I have been struggling to explain this since for ever. This is exactly the problem: “I’m not toxic that I ask you to have this dungeon completed 250 times it’s you that has only completed it 249”.

    So many examples of this crap in WoW and the continued rejection for petty reasons intoxicates the environment because let’s face it, many many players can’t meet those completely arbitrary requirements.

    Then again without being toxic per se someone says “you can always make your own group”. Can you? I mean even if you try, no one wants to put the effort and the time investment. So again people say “hey I wasn’t toxic they could always go make their own group/raid/guild” but deep inside we all know this doesn’t work.

    It doesn’t work to the point I was paying 25K for guild signatures to make a bank guild and guild less people standing in the middle of SW wouldn’t come sign for 25K gold.

    That’s an indifferent, malfunctioning, bad community. That’s why boosters have taken over and blizzard is fine with that because money.

    There are exceptions (always are) but they are just that: exceptions.
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
    m8 i've been around since Feb 2005, I know it all.
    i outgrew the games playerbase.
    So I was using a gold dupe hack. I don't know why i was banned for this. It is so unfair.
    People need an incentive to play content. "Its fun!" is simply not enough.
    Btw iam multi glad so plz dont tell me how to play, kkthxbye

  14. #154
    Easy fix to mythic+ get rid of the stupid timer and if you fail you don't lose your key. Done and Done.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Definitely the developers, and more specifically whoever was in charge when m+ was implemented.

    Designing a good online video game is more about player psychology than anything else. If you can't predict how players will behave, react and feel your systems will be shit.
    please give me ONE, just one example of multiplayer game design where people cant be toxic...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhrrngt View Post
    Easy fix to mythic+ get rid of the stupid timer and if you fail you don't lose your key. Done and Done.
    and people will still invite whoever they want...
    so what exactly will that fix?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dominatedd View Post
    After reading many responses in this thread, I am still convinced, if Mythic+ was less punishable, than players would get less declines. You are correct about the psycholigical factor regarding M+. Players in LFD are seeking the best people to avoid failure in the runs, because if you do, you will get punished for it.
    just ... no
    people would STILL invite whoever they want/think is best how would any change to M+ help that in any way ffs?!
    people would still want run without any issues whatsoever so they would get whoever they think will do best...
    only thing that would lead to less declined people in M+ is if M+ needed 10 players instead of 5
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-07-22 at 07:28 PM.

  16. #156
    Scarab Lord Master Guns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    4,485
    Sounds to me like OP can’t do higher than a 5 keystone and is mad

    Please enjoy my film SCHISM, a film festival winning short
    https://youtu.be/HjwQ8jBcoq8

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    So I ask again what do the guilds have to do with that?
    Because all you have written could be done for guilds too, and it's not. And you aren't questioning that either.
    The people who want to form a guild could gather signatures, the other peeps could simply queue for a random guild.

    It's funny that you think people who don't want to deal with elitist creeps would pick the random queue btw.

    Because in FFXIV, it's not working like that either - at least not in the west. Not sure if the japanese are actually disciplined enough to have something like a community.
    You have people expecting other people to be the best of the best when queue randomly -> "Everyone who queues randomly should be at *this* level"
    You have people expecting other people to be the worst when they queue randomly -> "Everyone who queues randomly should know that they can get basically every kind of player - good or bad - so it's fine for me to learn this fight, right?"

    You'll never reach a consensus as to who should queue for what and who should use the party finder.
    And that's not really the only problem with that.
    Gear+temlevel, is the goal to clear or is it to time it etc. etc.? all of that has to be taken into account for that.
    You can't just allow a fucking ilvl 200 into a +15 in a random queue. So you want Blizzard to gate it instead of players?
    At that point I'm still wondering why that one guy can't just use the party finder himself to open a group for his +5 key or whatever and invite whoever.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-07-22 at 07:58 PM.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I also disagree with the symptom of the problem stuff. For some people the open world is their endgame. They've been upset for years that they were basically second class citizens because they had time or interest constraints. Now that the gap between casuals and hardcores is smaller, now a different subsection of the community is complaining. The "why do these filthy casuals get to come within 20 ilvls of me doing just open world content" folks.
    And that is exactly what I am talking about; making a proper open world, where there's something to actually do and achieve, making the easier gearing and obtaining of loot senseful for those who have the open world as their de facto endgame.

    The gap between casuals and hardcore players in terms of gearing should be determined by the effort put into the game. If someone objectively falls into the category of a casual, then there's nothing to really complain about when it comes to gearing for these players; casuals in fact do not even need that good gear, unless they tend to explore content beyond casual difficulty.

    Besides, the easier gearing is fine within the current system and people are always going to find something to complain about; people complaining about something doesn't mean said complaining needs to necessarily be addressed by appeasement, so I'll leave it there.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-07-22 at 07:55 PM.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Because all you have written could be done for guilds too, and it's not. And you aren't questioning that either.
    The people who want to form a guild could gather signatures, the other peeps could simply queue for a random guild.
    Again, what do the guilds have to do with LFG?
    Guild is not an activity. It is not even needed for anything other than itself. You are trying to make a ridiculous argument. That's all.
    And yes, it can be done for guilds and there are games that have that, you can literally press a button, and you will join the guild that allows that and have room. What? You thought it's not a thing? That's how ridiculous your argument gets if we think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    It's funny that you think people who don't want to deal with elitist creeps would pick the random queue btw.
    If you want to do mythic+ but get rejected all the time and don't want to start your own party - YOU WILL GO QUEUE.
    That's a scientific fact of life.
    But most people who are not into creating a party and have no reliable people to play with will PREFER to queue, naturally.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Because in FFXIV, it's not working like that either.
    You have people expecting other people to be the best of the best when queue randomly -> "Everyone who queues randomly should be at *this* level"
    Lol, no. In FF14 there's LEVEL SYNC. It doesn't matter what level everybody is - they all get the same level in the instance (well within the min and max allowed), it also syncs ITEM-LEVEL and abilities availability. It actually takes special effort to go queuing without level sync, and there are no issues you are imagining.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Declining someone in itself is not toxic. Just think who gets picked and based on what superficial criteria. This is a system that breeds toxicity without requiring people to be toxic.

    Lol, no. I would just allow queueing for any content. The freedom will sort everything out.
    Yes, the freedom to now kick people out of the group for superficial critera instead of just declining an invite. How is having random people forced into your group freedom?

    Making everything queable while maintaining difficulty isn't suddenly going to make groups accepting of randoms. Queable content is designed to be largely face rolled because you can't really expect random people mashed together to properly coordinate.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •