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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    Yes, the freedom to now kick people out of the group for superficial critera instead of just declining an invite. How is having random people forced into your group freedom?
    Why are you having randoms in your party if you don't want them in your party, to begin with?
    Just because you can queue for everything doesn't mean you can only play with randoms.
    Duh.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post

    Lol, no. In FF14 there's LEVEL SYNC. It doesn't matter what level everybody is - they all get the same level in the instance (well within the min and max allowed), it also syncs ITEM-LEVEL and abilities availability. It actually takes special effort to go queuing without level sync, and there are no issues you are imagining.
    Uhm... when was the last time you played FFXIV?




    and yes, there are *exactly* the issues I'm mentioning.
    It's just not working well for difficult content.
    What's the point of random queues if the group gets disbanded 5 seconds later.

    Unlike in FFXIV Savage content, you don't "learn" a dungeon in M+. You get one guy who wants to finish it quickly and one who wants to take his time.

    And I have no idea why people just don't do this. That's after *6* seconds.. at night.



    Guess what will happen if I wait another 50 seconds before I press accept?
    20 guys will get declined and scream "THATS SO TOXIC"
    I mean, these poor fellas got rejected because I delisted my group as I don't even own that key... but... if you just understand that this is how the system works, there is basically no reason to think you are getting rejected because "all players" are trying to keep you out of it or whatver.
    DPS slots are filled after like 2 seconds. That's just how it is in this game. Play a tank or healer and you'll get more invites. Simple as that.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-07-22 at 08:21 PM.

  3. #163
    And what exactly are you trying to show? You don't need level sync if everyone is level 80. And there are item-level requirements to queue unless you go premade.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    And what exactly are you trying to show? You don't need level sync if everyone is level 80. And there are item-level requirements to queue unless you go premade.
    "At *this* level" was meant as "at this skill level". So that might be where you and me started talking about two different things.

    on japanese servers it's more common for people who have cleared everything to use the dungeon finder and people who want to practice or don't mind wiping for 2 hours will form dedicated groups.
    In the west, it's 100% random who and what type of player you get.
    It doesn't work here. It's really simple.
    When you say "well these guys can just keep using the dungeon finder", well... then so can they.
    In fact, you can actually do that right now without any problem.
    As seen above with my group finder screenshot of WoW.

    Open group finder -> insert keylevel -> insert intention -> wait for 1000 people trying to get into you group, 960 of them are dps.

    edit: oh and let me tell you, if you haven't cleared the new raid (even on normal, lol) after like 1 day, you are considered shit tier as well and will have problems getting back on the "train" in FFXIV too. So the random queue really doesn't do much. The way to catch up again is with the party finder. But that's probably a bit off-topic - what I wanted to say with it, is that this "service" doesn't reduce toxicity at all when it comes to the "competitive content"
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-07-22 at 08:35 PM.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    "At *this* level" was meant as "at this skill level". So that might be where you and me started talking about two different things.
    It takes skill to unlock those dungeons so everyone who can queue for them - has the skills.
    It's high end content. For high-end peeps. They can queue just fine for it and they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    In the west, it's 100% random who and what type of player you get.
    It doesn't work here. It's really simple.
    That's some bullshit. it seems to be working just fine. No one claimed it to be perfect. But there's definitely less toxicity in FF14 compared to WoW. Like magnitudes less toxicity.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I
    That's some bullshit. it seems to be working just fine. No one claimed it to be perfect. But there's definitely less toxicity in FF14 compared to WoW. Like magnitudes less toxicity.
    Not really in savage content, no.
    Otherwise, I agree. But there is no hard content other than savage/ultimate...so I guess that's probably the reason.

    It takes skill to unlock those dungeons so everyone who can queue for them - has the skills.
    boosts and "help a friend" exists.
    it's high end content. For high-end peeps. They can queue just fine for it and they do.
    my experience is completely different.
    The average wait time for that queue is like an hour for me and not only because the content is "done" now.
    Way more success with the group finder.

    edit: I mean... I wouldn't mind for WoW to have a random queue (yay choice), but it would just be there not fixing the problem.
    That's my opinion on that matter.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-07-22 at 08:46 PM.

  7. #167
    I am in the vast minority here, but I hate Mythic +. To me it has zero place in a MMO. There should be one difficulty and it should never be timed with the exception of enrage stopping cheese mechanics.

    Blizzard games have a habit of attracting immature players, but they have made it even worse with the direction they have taken the game. WoW used to be the casual players mmo, but it is hyper competitive now. Put an already antagonistic community into an even more competitive environment and the fangs come out.

    I put 90% of the blame on Blizzard myself.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    And that is exactly what I am talking about; making a proper open world, where there's something to actually do and achieve, making the easier gearing and obtaining of loot senseful for those who have the open world as their de facto endgame.

    The gap between casuals and hardcore players in terms of gearing should be determined by the effort put into the game. If someone objectively falls into the category of a casual, then there's nothing to really complain about when it comes to gearing for these players; casuals in fact do not even need that good gear, unless they tend to explore content beyond casual difficulty.

    Besides, the easier gearing is fine within the current system and people are always going to find something to complain about; people complaining about something doesn't mean said complaining needs to necessarily be addressed by appeasement, so I'll leave it there.
    But what is effort? You can't define that. Would a mythic raider who raids 4 hours a week be putting in more effort than someone who does outdoors stuff 8 hours a day 7 days a week? We've had discussions up and down about what is hardcore and what is casual, and common consensus is there's two metrics, time spent and difficulty. In SLs case a guy who never does world content but does a ton of it can get within a stone's throw of a mythic raidlogger.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  9. #169
    6-man parties please with room for another DPS *boom headshot*

    interesting that the gaming industry nowadays cannot give solutions to problems. they just wish-wash it away, create a -masterful- narrative about how their developers are (insert random fuckery) and therefore the players are the real bullies here because they want fun and fun does not generate money so fuck everyone

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    But what is effort? You can't define that. Would a mythic raider who raids 4 hours a week be putting in more effort than someone who does outdoors stuff 8 hours a day 7 days a week? We've had discussions up and down about what is hardcore and what is casual, and common consensus is there's two metrics, time spent and difficulty. In SLs case a guy who never does world content but does a ton of it can get within a stone's throw of a mythic raidlogger.
    Effort is related to difficulty and an increase in difficulty increases the time required to clear certain content. The amount of effort can of course be lower the more skilled a player is, but in general effort equals difficulty in this case.

    Casual content, due to its nature of lacking certain skill-related difficulties, is usually time consuming, in order to compensate for what higher difficulty automatically brings to the table and that's time consumption.

    I don't think that this is the way the whole game should be structured, but it is an irreplacable concept. What is important is to make sure that the casual content is interesting, engaging and fun, not just gameplay designed to squeeze as much time played out of someone over an extended period of time through "feature gating" and dripfeeding content.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-07-23 at 12:56 PM.

  11. #171
    Herald of the Titans Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    not that i disagree, but how would that help with "problem" op have?
    No fear of losing keys like he mentioned earlier.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    No fear of losing keys like he mentioned earlier.
    but people still wouldnt want to spend hours in single dungeon, they would still want useful abilities like cr or bl, they would still stack armor or choose if they want ranged or melee, they would still want people with some gear and experience, there would still be much more dps than tanks and healers so group leaders would still have to decline most people applying, and it would still be only their choice...
    removing keys would change absolutely nothing about that, think about pugging raids, do you get invited in every single one you apply to? there are no keys, so you should, right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnjohn View Post
    I am in the vast minority here, but I hate Mythic +. To me it has zero place in a MMO. There should be one difficulty and it should never be timed with the exception of enrage stopping cheese mechanics.

    Blizzard games have a habit of attracting immature players, but they have made it even worse with the direction they have taken the game. WoW used to be the casual players mmo, but it is hyper competitive now. Put an already antagonistic community into an even more competitive environment and the fangs come out.

    I put 90% of the blame on Blizzard myself.
    we had the times (actualy thank to classic if you want to you can have them again) when there was only single difficulty for pve endgame, and no timers (well, except enrage) and people were toxic...
    this have absolutely nothing with game design, there is literaly no game without some morons playing it, you have toxic chess players ffs, its completely about people not about game

  13. #173
    I blame Blizzard for the outcome of their players the same way I blame parents for their children. There is no incentive to get better as a player if there are no rewards or punishments. If you're a dps player that is being outdamaged by a healer, worst case scenario you'll be removed from the group. That is unlikely to happen in M+ because the rest of the group suffers. So you're left in the group and reap the rewards of better players and then use those rewards to get into higher groups. It allows them to link achieves they played no part in achieving to people who are genuinely trying to earn those same achieves. We, as players, can't do anything about those kind of players anymore. Before cross realm, we could at least socially exile them but now theres nothing. I could just put them on ignore but then I have the responsibility to cross check my ignore list with everyone who signs up.

  14. #174
    Herald of the Titans Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    but people still wouldnt want to spend hours in single dungeon, they would still want useful abilities like cr or bl, they would still stack armor or choose if they want ranged or melee, they would still want people with some gear and experience, there would still be much more dps than tanks and healers so group leaders would still have to decline most people applying, and it would still be only their choice...
    removing keys would change absolutely nothing about that, think about pugging raids, do you get invited in every single one you apply to? there are no keys, so you should, right?

    - - - Updated - - -



    we had the times (actualy thank to classic if you want to you can have them again) when there was only single difficulty for pve endgame, and no timers (well, except enrage) and people were toxic...
    this have absolutely nothing with game design, there is literaly no game without some morons playing it, you have toxic chess players ffs, its completely about people not about game
    Of course it's not going to change everything. It's just one less element to be concerned about.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Definitely the developers, and more specifically whoever was in charge when m+ was implemented.

    Designing a good online video game is more about player psychology than anything else. If you can't predict how players will behave, react and feel your systems will be shit.
    back in early tests of AI driving cars, an ai car hit a woman on road because she was walking beside a bicycle, literally no one blamed the woman for not riding a bicycle but walking with it
    ppl here are blaming the woman mentality, again player has NO power to change anything in game, u can't even make ur priest wear plate like Anduin decided out of blue for example
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    Of course it's not going to change everything. It's just one less element to be concerned about.
    yeah so instead of hundred different reasons he will be only declined for 99, sure its a change, improvement even...
    but will it be noticeable? i really doubt that

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