Do you feel like the Arcane mage spec flows nicely in end game?

[Specialka]

I don't think you add anything. Yes obviously if we play in 1 guild and 1 group and we have 40 wipes already yes: arcane will become predictable even in some relatively weird bosses.

But that's unplayable even in semi-hard core guilds: for example you will go to 5mans for extra gearing and fun: you won't have the same group and you'll be destroyed.

I do not need 40 pulls to learn a fight ? Wtf ? You need 1 or 2 pulls to properly set your timer in mecanic downtime or you can set them when someone else is targeted. You just do not like to hear that the issue here is not the spec.

And I absolutely top perform in m+ content. I do easily 16-17 + while top the dps meter and I do not even push that high while Arcane would even shine higher in higher keys.

[epigramx]

Arcane Mage in 9.1 with Kyrian covenant is amazing. You can move all you like and not need to turret constantly and every 45 seconds you do a big burst and go up in dps.
I know from experience (keystone master for s2 and currently 8/10 heroic sanctum) that arcane may be the best spec for all your needs.
People in this thread have archaic views of the spec, might have never played it or played it a long time ago.
I suggest every mage try it at least, cause it lines up great with alot of the encounters in Sanctum of Domination

I suspect you mean here that you put a lot of weight on trash/AOE. I find it still clunky if the focus is single target if the group does things in an unpredictable manner (e.g. not the same group in a 5man).
But you're probably right because a lot of mages are min-maxing schizos and they hate it when they're not 100% optimal but if you're 80%+ optimal with it you can destroy others because downtimes=mana.

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I do not need 40 pulls to learn a fight ? Wtf ? You need 1 or 2 pulls to properly set your timer in mecanic downtime or you can set them when someone else is targeted. You just do not like to hear that the issue here is not the spec.

And I absolutely top perform in m+ content. I do easily 16-17 + while top the dps meter and I do not even push that high while Arcane would even shine higher in higher keys.

Can you talk on topic? You insistence to glorify yourself and imply others are noobs adds nothing to the discussion. Besides: even if you were right it's still bad for the class: your supposed world-first-class ass that deserves to be raid leading Echo and Limit is not how a class should be.

[Shazzabooey]

What ... No, he is talking about Kyrian Arcane in general. That's why he is talking about both M+ and SoD, and said that "Arcane may be the best spec for all your needs".

[epigramx]

What ... No, he is talking about Kyrian Arcane in general. That's why he is talking about both M+ and SoD, and said that "Arcane may be the best spec for all your needs".

I meant there his stressing of the fact it's easy to move around which implies it may be easy in an unpredictable group/strategy. I also think that's right if one is putting a lot of weight on AOE and they're not a schizo with 100% minmaxing. I'm not sure it's true if it's a specialized scenario that the focus is single target though (but those are rare (especially in 5mans)).

[Specialka]

I suspect you mean here that you put a lot of weight on trash/AOE. I find it still clunky if the focus is single target if the group does things in an unpredictable manner (e.g. not the same group in a 5man).
But you're probably right because a lot of mages are min-maxing schizos and they hate it when they're not 100% optimal but if you're 80%+ optimal with it you can destroy others because downtimes=mana.

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Can you talk on topic? You insistence to glorify yourself and imply others are noobs adds nothing to the discussion. Besides: even if you were right it's still bad for the class: your supposed world-first-class ass that deserves to be raid leading Echo and Limit is not how a class should be.

It is good that some spec still requires more skill than others. If you can't handle it, you can still go frost or fire.

If you want tips, go on the mage discord and ask your questions there anyway and you will get the same answer I gave you here. Arcane is strong and Arcane Kyrian even more.

[Mefistophelis]

I suspect you mean here that you put a lot of weight on trash/AOE. I find it still clunky if the focus is single target if the group does things in an unpredictable manner (e.g. not the same group in a 5man).
But you're probably right because a lot of mages are min-maxing schizos and they hate it when they're not 100% optimal but if you're 80%+ optimal with it you can destroy others because downtimes=mana.

No. Arcane right now is balanced in both single target and aoe. It has amazing burst when needed and can do mechanics on the downtime without losing tons of dps.
In m+ you just burst on every pack pretty much on higher keys. People underestimate the power of Arcane.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I feel like the true core of the discussion around Arcane is that it requires so darn much CASTING IN PLACE in order to work. They doubled down EXTREMELY after the Rune of Power and DOTs additions back in ~late Cata/MoP and since then players of average skill don't go near it hence the flocking to fire.

However: I suspect the best secret about the situation is that minmaxers probably overengineer their guides based on simulations meaning: it might be an extremely better spec for a guild if certain casting talents are dropped in some encounters.

Well it’s a bit movement punishing but you can get used to it by studying fight and planning ahead. Staying in melee and casting Arcane Explosions while moving is not bad idea too as well as using slipstream.

[epigramx]

No. Arcane right now is balanced in both single target and aoe. It has amazing burst when needed and can do mechanics on the downtime without losing tons of dps.
In m+ you just burst on every pack pretty much on higher keys. People underestimate the power of Arcane.

I understand what you mean and it makes sense. I was more questioning the specialized case of shit on the ground in an unpredictable manner or/and when you're not very familiar with the group's strategy which seems to still be fine on AOE but on single target more punished.
But even there I suspect it can be limited with enough optimization of gameplay.

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Well it’s a bit movement punishing but you can get used to it by studying fight and planning ahead. Staying in melee and casting Arcane Explosions while moving is not bad idea too.

I believe you can make it very predictable if you only play with the same group of people and in the same manner every time. E.g. after a few kills or wipes on the same group with the same people even randomized shit on the ground may be eliminated as an issue to some extend. It probably gets sketchy if the group you're playing with is new (assuming you know the encounter) and I suspect single-target is more punished than AOE with unpredictability but it is most probably a spec with a steep learning/experience curve but if you reach a certain point of skill: even bad groups may not punish you too much.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I believe you can make it very predictable if you only play with the same group of people and in the same manner every time. E.g. after a few kills or wipes on the same group with the same people even randomized shit on the ground may be eliminated as an issue to some extend. It probably gets sketchy if the group you're playing with is new (assuming you know the encounter) and I suspect single-target is more punished than AOE with unpredictability but it is most probably a spec with a steep learning/experience curve but if you reach a certain point of skill: even bad groups may not punish you too much.

True. I play everyday with different people though. Imagine the headache now

[epigramx]

True. I play everyday with different people though. Imagine the headache now

I understand it well because I've been playing Arcane in hard content since Cata and on and off as an alt class/spec after that.
I think though a lot of the problem sometimes is "OCD minmax elitism", meaning 90% optimal shouldn't make you quit.

[Mefistophelis]

I understand what you mean and it makes sense. I was more questioning the specialized case of shit on the ground in an unpredictable manner or/and when you're not very familiar with the group's strategy which seems to still be fine on AOE but on single target more punished.
But even there I suspect it can be limited with enough optimization of gameplay.

Well as far as raiding goes, you gotta understand the flow of the fight and take a look at the timers and boss hp% for phases. You can't start a burn and lose all your damage because you had to move or the boss flew off (I'm looking at you painsmith).
M+ is different. Alot easier. You can take a couple of hits while bursting and your damage is so ridiculous that the healers would be ok.

[epigramx]

Well as far as raiding goes, you gotta understand the flow of the fight and take a look at the timers and boss hp% for phases. You can't start a burn and lose all your damage because you had to move or the boss flew off (I'm looking at you painsmith).
M+ is different. Alot easier. You can take a couple of hits while bursting and your damage is so ridiculous that the healers would be ok.

I'm not sure standing in fire is viable. But I haven't played this expansion much (or not yet). Can you really stand in shit and stay alive relatively consistently?

[Specialka]

I'm not sure standing is fire is viable. But I haven't played this expansion much (or not yet). Can you really stand in shit and stay alive relatively consistently?

In lfr, I am pretty sure you can, but in nm and higher, you can't. And anyway, you should not take the habit of standing in fire. You'll drain the mana of your healers for nothing. As Arcane, if you need to move, you can PoM with cancelaura or fireblast and make a sidestep while bursting.

[epigramx]

In lfr, I am pretty sure you can, but in nm and higher, you can't. And anyway, you should not take the habit of standing in fire. You'll drain the mana of your healers for nothing. As Arcane, if you need to move, you can PoM with cancelaura or fireblast and make a sidestep while bursting.

The above user was supposedly hard core talking about m+. He may have a point because he said that the spam of damage (of DPS) is usually too high to care, though I haven't tried it much yet (lately) so I don't know so that's why I asked.

[Specialka]

The above user was supposedly hard core talking about m+. He may have a point because he said that the spam of damage (of DPS) is usually too high to care, though I haven't tried it much yet (lately) so I don't know so that's why I asked.

I usually do 16-17 keys level and everything nearly one shot and a dead dps can't dps.

[epigramx]

I usually do 16-17 keys level and everything nearly one shot and a dead dps can't dps.

That's what I suspect also is what is happening. Unless of course there's an exception, e.g. you know the particular enemy spell and you know it's gonna only do 40% of your health and you just popped cds.

[Ladey Gags]

I can’t fucking stand arcane harmony. Crafted it a day ago and it just feels like pure shit. It’s not fucking arcane. If I’m arcane I want to spam arcane blast, that’s what I’m used to and what I enjoy. Fuck this shit legendary and even shittier forced rotatiom with no room for error. Shitty shitty shitty play style. Can’t fucking wait for this legendary to go away, bring back old arcane FFS this shit is cancer

[Mefistophelis]

I can’t fucking stand arcane harmony. Crafted it a day ago and it just feels like pure shit. It’s not fucking arcane. If I’m arcane I want to spam arcane blast, that’s what I’m used to and what I enjoy. Fuck this shit legendary and even shittier forced rotatiom with no room for error. Shitty shitty shitty play style. Can’t fucking wait for this legendary to go away, bring back old arcane FFS this shit is cancer

So, wait... you prefer the mindless spamming that gets wrecked by movement and requires absolute turreting and can't stand the stay still for 10 seconds every 45 seconds and in between just chill and do missiles or whatever, doesn't really matter!

[erifwodahs]

I don't think you add anything. Yes obviously if we play in 1 guild and 1 group and we have 40 wipes already yes: arcane will become predictable even in some relatively weird bosses.

But that's unplayable even in semi-hard core guilds: for example you will go to 5mans for extra gearing and fun: you won't have the same group and you'll be destroyed.

lol dude, you are so full of shit. You make arcane sound like this paramount complexity while the spec rotation as braindead as frost ST. "Unplayable" what are you smoking? You don't become shit player just by playing arcane or do you forget how to optimally use CDs? What a load of crap

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Well as far as raiding goes, you gotta understand the flow of the fight and take a look at the timers and boss hp% for phases. You can't start a burn and lose all your damage because you had to move or the boss flew off (I'm looking at you painsmith).
M+ is different. Alot easier. You can take a couple of hits while bursting and your damage is so ridiculous that the healers would be ok.

Arcane pays way higher price if they fuck up in tracking boss mechanics, but everything has a timer and every decent player looks at transitions and dps CDs usage windows. Fire mage, Ret pala work exactly the same

[Scathan]

Really love arcane in Shadowlands. The Arcane Echo talent with TotM really gives the rotation something else other than the usual AB spam.

It capitalizes from the pof gameplay from warlords, arcane was overtuned in warlords, but it was the most fun version of the spec, legion arcane was boring imo. bfa didn't make any big changes, shadowlands is a step in the right direction. but honestly, they need to bring back warlords arcane played.