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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Wow... that Blizzard reply trying to politicise the issue was almost like an admission of guilt.
    Appealing to reaganomics in your public statement (in California of all places) is exceedingly unlikely to go down well and I'm honestly shocked they even tried it.
    Speaking to your second point I agree if that's their best shot things aren't looking good for the defense.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  2. #342
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    That's how I read it. He was being sexually harassed because he wasn't stereotypically sexist. It is a combination of racism and sexual harassment against him.
    If people in an office are making jokes about sexism, racism or hassling someone because he or she isn't stereotypically sexist that suggests a problem. This is not something that should be any part of professional office banter. Ever.

    Everyone is falling all over themselves explaining this with very few commenting on why the fuck is this even a thing in the office?
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    They were repeated comments over a long time from Gemma Barreda-Mirkovic (the not so unnamed female employee) - and also involving Kim Phan, causing a major depression and PTSD.

    In what world wouldn't such racist bullying not lead to an investigation?
    The rest of the quote ("The assumption then became that I was just like everyone else...") and the result of the investigation. What context would lead to this end result?

    As to the bolded, I don't know why I read:

    Attempts to reach the accused employee have not received a response as of publication time.
    as unnamed employee. Apologies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  4. #344
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    I feel like waiting to see the evidence in a trial is a fairly rational thing to do.
    And it's already been explained to you why waiting for "evidence in a trial" is not the rational or humane thing to do in this case.

    The time for impartial skepticism was when the compliance audit started. That was two years ago.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    because they're sexist themselves...




    this is for all their games...


    but they don't enforce it... seems it's just there for show...
    They do not say anything the same way that most people do not act when someone is mugged in front of them in the street. They do not want to get involved. Report those idiots and move on.

  6. #346
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    In my opinion, there's no need to rush to judgement
    Which no one is doing.

    Once again, we are well aware the issue is not the speed, it's that criticism is being raised at all. You can just very easily say "I don't believe Blizzard is a bad company" rather than trying to couch it in nonsense arguments about impartiality because assuming they aren't a bad company is just as much of a rush judgement as otherwise - especially when you repeatedly have to disclaim that you are aware gamer culture is massively sexist.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    In my opinion, there's no need to rush to judgement and we can wait until the evidence is presented. Let the evidence tell the story, not the accusations.
    Even moving at a swift clip major litigation against a large corporation like this will take years to get to judgment (and more likely will result in a settlement). Say that someone wants to waif for all the evidence is effectively saying you no longer wish to participate in the converaation.

    It is unlikely anything material will be forthcoming in short order.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  8. #348
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Why shouldn't we wait to see the evidence
    Because they've been under audit for compliance failures for two years and if there was anything exculpatory it would not have got to this point.

    Do pay attention.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Why shouldn't we wait to see the evidence? If Blizzard is guilty, we'll have plenty of evidence during the trial to make up our own mind.
    People can have opinions before cases are resolved.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    The rest of the quote ("The assumption then became that I was just like everyone else...") and the result of the investigation. What context would lead to this end result?
    I see nothing suggesting that he was sexist, just continued racial harassment, and sexism from her.
    He didn't contact EEOC to start the investigation until after a nervous breakdown and leaving Blizzard.

    Read his story http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqp7gi if you can stomach it.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    We can use Riot's timeline. The article about Riot happened in 8/2018 and the lawsuit was settled by 12/2019. It didn't take that long.
    That wasn't a state case, that was a class-action case. Very different.

  12. #352
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Appealing to reaganomics in your public statement (in California of all places) is exceedingly unlikely to go down well and I'm honestly shocked they even tried it.
    Speaking to your second point I agree if that's their best shot things aren't looking good for the defense.
    Given many of Blizzard's PR statements as of late, I cannot help thinking that there is someone in that department trolling the everliving $&#@ out of Blizz execs (and sometimes even devs). Attempting a pseudo political posturing in circumstances like these, moreso in California, out of all places... /facepalm
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    We can use Riot's timeline. The article about Riot happened in 8/2018 and the lawsuit was settled by 12/2019. It didn't take that long.
    You won't get to see evidence if there is a settlement. That's literally the point of a settlement.
    Further if you're suggesting you think blizzard's just going to roll over that quickly that's tantamount to saying you think blizzard is guility.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  14. #354
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Blizzard's specific argument is that there is exculpatory evidence
    Their argument is that they had a problem but they fixed it, not that they never had a problem. Reading comprehension, s'il vous plait.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Blizzard's specific argument is that there is exculpatory evidence, as stated: "We have been extremely cooperative with the DFEH throughout their investigation, including providing them with extensive data and ample documentation, but they refused to inform us what issues they perceived. They were required by law to adequately investigate and to have good faith discussions with us to better understand and to resolve any claims or concerns before going to litigation, but they failed to do so. Instead, they rushed to file an inaccurate complaint, as we will demonstrate in court."

    https://www.thegamer.com/activision-...sponse-report/
    Again: https://twitter.com/charlieINTEL/sta...404674/photo/1
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Until then, I honestly don't care about anything else much. Until then it can all burn down to the ground for all I care.
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Yeah, I think it's fair to conclude that "Fuck the poor" "Arch-angel of Riots" is just in it with the hope of inflicting maximum harm for maximum chaos, and since they've shown no particular attachment to any guiding moral, ideological, or political principle, it seems to be for the sake of maximum fun.

  16. #356
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    I'm more or less surprised that if this was allegedly so pervasive that we haven't heard anything from any of the alleged victims (anonymously or otherwise) outside of Julian Murillo-Cuellar.
    Gee, maybe the fact Blizzard does not have a system for anonymously handling complaints might be a factor.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  17. #357
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    I'm aware of what the state of CA has alleged Activision-Blizzard
    Nooooooo.

    Read Blizzard's statement.

    They said "they have made several changes" - i.e. those changes were necessary. They would have not have been necessary if there weren't a problem.

    There's a difference between being impartial and having your head up your ass.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  18. #358
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    If there is an inadequate system, you would use the EEOC, which Julian did.
    And here's where we get into you not understanding what the tech industry's employment pool looks like.

    Do you know what an NDA is?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Yes. They worked with DFEH and made changes to comply with DFEH.
    The changes wouldn't have been necessary if there were no wrongdoing.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    While every situation is different, there was a lot more evidence about Riot (provided by Kotaku https://kotaku.com/inside-the-cultur...mes-1828165483 ).
    Again, that was a class action lawsuit, not formal charges brought against them by the state following a multi-year investigation.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    I'm more or less surprised that if this was allegedly so pervasive that we haven't heard anything from any of the alleged victims (anonymously or otherwise) outside of Julian Murillo-Cuellar.
    Many men and especially women who still work or formerly worked at Blizzard have come out to validate these stories. Many can't specifically speak about it due to the pending lawsuit, but it's not remotely surprising that extensive harassment has been covered up for long periods of time. Riots own class action lawsuit brought by some women working there backs this up. So does the extensive reporting on how pervasive sexual harassment in Ubisoft has been as it's been covered over the past year+.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    I'm aware of what the state of CA has alleged Activision-Blizzard, but as of now, the state of CA hasn't presented any evidence.
    I'm not sure that you are. They state clearly that they attempted numerous times to resolve these issues prior to litigation through mediation and dispute resolution, directly contradicting Activision's claims that "[DFEH] were required by law to adequately investigate and to have good faith discussions with us to better understand and to resolve any claims or concerns before going to litigation, but they failed to do so. Instead, they rushed to file an inaccurate complaint, as we will demonstrate in court." which for some reason you have accepted at face value, despite your posture of impartiality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Until then, I honestly don't care about anything else much. Until then it can all burn down to the ground for all I care.
    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    Yeah, I think it's fair to conclude that "Fuck the poor" "Arch-angel of Riots" is just in it with the hope of inflicting maximum harm for maximum chaos, and since they've shown no particular attachment to any guiding moral, ideological, or political principle, it seems to be for the sake of maximum fun.

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