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  1. #481
    Deleted part to avoid wrath of moderators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    I mean, it's like on page three of the lawsuit where they talk about retaliation for complaints about harassment and none of it involves 'lower chance of promotion' or 'lower salary.'
    Technically they don't use those words, but:
    It's page 4 (and 11-14) where they talk about women in general having lower salary and lower chance of promotion.
    It's page 5, 16, 22-23 where they talk about retaliations including denial of projects, denial of professional opportunities, and negative performance reviews. What do you think the result of that is?
    Last edited by Forogil; 2021-07-23 at 01:00 PM.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Deleted part to avoid wrath of moderators.


    Technically they don't use those words, but:
    It's page 4 (and 11-14) where they talk about women in general having lower salary and lower chance of promotion.
    It's page 5, 16, 22-23 where they talk about retaliations including denial of projects, denial of professional opportunities, and negative performance reviews. What do you think the result of that is?
    Most of us would love to see such a shakedown in most companies, both private and state-owned. This is a plague upon both private and public sectors and affects pretty much everyone, regardless of their sex. If it is a problem on level 7 EQF, I can imagine how bad it can get in a private corporate environment in the US.

    I assume it is worse for women in gaming than it is for men, because men obviously dominate the industry. It happens to men in other sectors too.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-07-23 at 01:09 PM.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    What 'woke shit' did Blizzard push on their players?
    for western players? pride.

    quite funny to see the contrast between blizzard games and events in the west and here. like overwatch league, pride all over the place in broadcast for the us and europe. for korea? not mentioned at all, because it would cause more backlash than in europe or usa and give them bad publicity here, where in europe or usa people would rage at those who complain about pride.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Moriati View Post
    for western players? pride.

    quite funny to see the contrast between blizzard games and events in the west and here. like overwatch league, pride all over the place in broadcast for the us and europe. for korea? not mentioned at all, because it would cause more backlash than in europe or usa and give them bad publicity here, where in europe or usa people would rage at those who complain about pride.
    Yeah, South Korea has some issues with bigotry.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Most of us would love to see such a shakedown in most companies, both private and state-owned. This is a plague upon both private and public sectors and affects pretty much everyone, regardless of their sex. It is a problem for many on level 7 EQF, so I can imagine how bad it can get in a private corporate environment.
    I don't know if governments or corporations are the worst in general.
    Many corporations have a strong incentive to deliver something that people will actually pay for, and ruthlessly cut away some problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I assume it is worse for women in gaming than it is for men, because men obviously dominate the industry. It happens to men in other sectors too.
    "Dominate" can mean different things.

    One of the problems is that many of the women weren't hard-core gamers (or drinkers), and there seems to be some idea that playing video game at work (even outside of dedicated testing) was desirable in the employee. Part of that may also be a problem with the fan-base - look at the vitriol towards Bobby Kotick when he allegedly said he didn't play games (due to lack of time).

    Oh, and it happened to at least one man at Blizzard as well.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Deleted part to avoid wrath of moderators.


    Technically they don't use those words, but:
    It's page 4 (and 11-14) where they talk about women in general having lower salary and lower chance of promotion.
    It's page 5, 16, 22-23 where they talk about retaliations including denial of projects, denial of professional opportunities, and negative performance reviews. What do you think the result of that is?
    So we're in agreement? The sexual misconduct AND gender discrimination are two different issues? Considering page 11-14 is just about gender discrimination and has nothing to do with the sexual misconduct the likes of Alex Afrasiabi got up to?

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    So we're in agreement? The sexual misconduct AND gender discrimination are two different issues?
    They are two issues, but they are related in terms of sexism, which is why they are part of the same law-suit.
    Technically there are even more issues as the sexual misconduct, and the retaliation for reporting sexual misconduct are listed separately.

    In the quote below can you identify what is sexual misconduct and what is gender discrimination, and do you see a strict line between those two clearly different issues, or do you see that those issues are part of a bigger issue?
    Male employees proudly come into work hungover, play video games for long periods of time during work while delegating their responsibilities to female employees, engage in banter about the sexual encounters, talk openly about female bodies, and joke about rape

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    I must be out of the loop.

    What 'woke shit' did Blizzard push on their players?
    How did they change their games to be more inclusive?

    And no, replacing a voice actor involved in a controversy is not 'woke,' it's a good business decision to distance yourself from controversy, so let's not include that.
    In Overwatch, you get Tracer who is lesbian, Symmetra who is an autist, and I am sure I left some out.

    In wow, you have pelagos who was a women in life and a man in death. You get the gay couple of horse spirit in the night fae faction, etc...

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    The crux of the indictment is systemic pay discrimination and not systemic sexual harassment or sexual misconduct. The systemic pay discrimination can be looked at as weak because it initially compares the pay of CEO/CTO/COO/CPO and those roles aren't comparable.

    By citing that, CA has raised the burden of proof on how they're determining equitable roles.
    The statement they made was that the few women who do make it to executive level earn less than their male peers. That's a fact, they don't have to prove it. So they made their point.

    The only thing they have to prove is women of specific job titles across the company were not paid as much as their male counterparts. That will be real easy to prove or disprove when records are requested, assuming they don't already have them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    In Overwatch, you get Tracer who is lesbian, Symmetra who is an autist, and I am sure I left some out.

    In wow, you have pelagos who was a women in life and a man in death. You get the gay couple of horse spirit in the night fae faction, etc...
    The existence of gays, people with autism, and transgender people in a video game is pushing 'woke shit' on people?
    Or is it changing their games to be more inclusive?

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Realistically, it's much easier to prove systemic pay discrimination than systemic sexual harassment. A company has to document how employees are compensated. People that sexually harass other people may do it with coded language or in forms of communication that are temporary.
    Possibly, it may also be easier to prove retaliation for reporting sexual harassment than proving the harassment itself.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    They are two issues, but they are related in terms of sexism, which is why they are part of the same law-suit.
    Technically there are even more issues as the sexual misconduct, and the retaliation for reporting sexual misconduct are listed separately.

    In the quote below can you identify what is sexual misconduct and what is gender discrimination, and do you see a strict line between those two clearly different issues, or do you see that those issues are part of a bigger issue?
    100% related in terms of sexism with maybe just a side of toxic masculinity. I mean, how insecure do you have to be to talk about sexual encounters openly at work. Pretty cringe.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    The statement they made was that the few women who do make it to executive level earn less than their male peers. That's a fact, they don't have to prove it. So they made their point.

    The only thing they have to prove is women of specific job titles across the company were not paid as much as their male counterparts. That will be real easy to prove or disprove when records are requested, assuming they don't already have them.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The existence of gays, people with autism, and transgender people in a video game is pushing 'woke shit' on people?
    Or is it changing their games to be more inclusive?
    Why do they feel the need to specify the sexuality of a character in a shooter game ? Not even a shooter centered around its story ?

  13. #493
    Selective layoffs in retaliation to complaints will probably be the easiest to prove. If they can show women who reported harassment being laid off at a rate higher than men or female counterparts who didn't report harassment, then they might have something beyond 'oh, it is just a coincidence.'

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Why do they feel the need to specify the sexuality of a character in a shooter game ? Not even a shooter centered around its story ?
    Overwatch has a ton of story. The same way you found out about Tracer's sexuality, outside the game, is the same way we found out about Widowmaker's husband, also outside the game. I'm sure you didn't like all that 'hetero shit' being forced on you, amirite?

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    "Dominate" can mean different things.

    One of the problems is that many of the women weren't hard-core gamers (or drinkers), and there seems to be some idea that playing video game at work (even outside of dedicated testing) was desirable in the employee. Part of that may also be a problem with the fan-base - look at the vitriol towards Bobby Kotick when he allegedly said he didn't play games (due to lack of time).

    Oh, and it happened to at least one man at Blizzard as well.
    Most women still aren't into videogames and men definitely run the metrics there. It therefor makes sense that most of the people that work in the industry are also male and I see no problem there. However, the problem that this lawsuit lays is one that transcends gaming and even the US; it is worldwide and it also transcends sexual identity.

    Equal opportunity in a merit-based environment is the thing that we need more of in the world in general.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-07-23 at 02:05 PM.

  15. #495
    Legendary! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    No one has a problem with white male heterosexuality because that's the default state. People have a problem differentiating from that because, in their mind, you're removing the status quo they had.
    Mask off now I see.
    Blessed are the fornicates, may we bend down to be their whores. Blessed are the rich, may our labor deliver them more.
    Blessed are the envious; bless the slothful, the wrathful, the vain. Blessed are the gluttonous, may they feast us to famine and war.
    What of the pious, the pure of heart, the peaceful, the meek, the mourning, and the merciful? All doomed, all doomed

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    Mask off now I see.
    waking up to steaming hot plate of YIKES.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    Selective layoffs in retaliation to complaints will probably be the easiest to prove. If they can show women who reported harassment being laid off at a rate higher than men or female counterparts who didn't report harassment, then they might have something beyond 'oh, it is just a coincidence.'

    - - - Updated - - -



    Overwatch has a ton of story. The same way you found out about Tracer's sexuality, outside the game, is the same way we found out about Widowmaker's husband, also outside the game. I'm sure you didn't like all that 'hetero shit' being forced on you, amirite?
    I really do not care about character sexuality in a shooter game to be frank. I like when diversity is included in a game and when it is done right, and I can't say it is done right in some case about Blizzard's game.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post

    What do those people consider gaming? White or political, male or political, heterosexual or political. That's a fairly common critique.
    dude, this is what people who whine about a character being changed to a another race always do, and you're saying it here unironically.. incredible.

  19. #499
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    This seems like a lot of nothing. I imagine a settlement.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    This seems like a lot of nothing. I imagine a settlement.
    This isn't a civil suit.
    They can possibly hash out a plea agreement where the company pleads guilty to lesser charges.

    After that, well that's when the civil lawsuits kick in.

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