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  1. #141
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I disagree. There is a fine line between someone coming onto you unprovoked and someone provoking the behavior
    Again, you taking that as a provocation is on you. Not them. Stop victim blaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Good example, another women who used to work here would heavily flirt with this guy across from me. She'd grab her chest in front of him, shake it and wink at him.
    r/thathappened
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Again, you taking that as a provocation is on you. Not them. Stop victim blaming.
    lol no it isn't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    r/thathappened
    Just an example.

    I know women are victims. I've witnessed cases of it myself. My only point is that they're not always the victims. Some pretend to be.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    Ban me, bitch. You will lose. We're going to destroy everything you hold dear and make you watch the entire time.
    lol wtf is this?

    Not only do I not get this threat, but it's fucking weird lol.

    Is this incel talk?

    It must be.

    Debating how "woke" they are to a Metzen flashing children analogy (that doesn't work) from a known creepy troll and you jump to this threat and defense? lol
    In a thread about sexual harassment no less.

    Priceless.

  4. #144
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    For the 3rd time, I'm not talking about the people in this lawsuit.
    I did not think you were.

    I was saying that this type of thing happens often and sometimes, it is the women's fault. I never insinuated that it was in this case.
    And I am telling you that blaming a girl for being "flirty" when you sexually harass her is a shitty argument that does not hold up, in any circumstance.


  5. #145
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    My only point is that they're not always the victims. Some pretend to be.
    That's nice dear, we're talking about a biased system which has fuck all to do with whether or not some individual is making claims.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Why shouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt? That's why it's a court case and not a summary judgement. Both sides should get equal time to explain what happened and we should judge the *results* of what come out of court. Not rush to judgement on what was filed.

    It's why due process is so important.
    Precisely!

    I'm not saying the women here are wrong because I don't know that they were.

    Anyone who has watched cases similar to this know that some are and some are not. Some women "come forward" just because others did, hoping for some kind of payout. Again, not insinuating that anyone in this case is doing that. It's only one of the many things that HAVE happened in our world. If the people at Blizzard really are treated like this, I honestly hope justice finds them.

  7. #147
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Why shouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt?
    I am not a court of law.

    And because this is far from the first instance of aforementioned toxic work and fan culture and is representative of a trend that has been commented on for more than a decade.

    Again, I'm sorry you need a judge to tell you your opinion.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  8. #148
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Why shouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt?
    Because doing so creates wiggle room that allows for additional victimization to occur and which can have a chilling effect on others coming forward.

    For starters.

    That's why it's a court case and not a summary judgement.
    And now you're conflating the court proceedings with public opinion.

    If a court's not able to prove someone's murdered their spouse beyond a reasonable doubt, but they probably definitely did murder them, it's completely reasonable for everyone to assume they got away with murder and to treat them accordingly.


  9. #149
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    blizzard is a sad company now. so looks like they are worse than EA right now.
    I rather imagine that gamer/developer culture in these studios is not unique to Blizzard. California picked the largest, most visible target. They may eventually file suit against others or this may be some sort of shot across the bow for everyone in this business in California.

    As I said in a couple of the closed threads, none of this should be surprising. There were always hints and in some cases articles that hinted at the frat house atmosphere in Blizzard's workplace. It's not a giant leap to go from frat-house/bro culture to any of this.

    For anyone imagining there will be an actual trial, probably not. The sensible thing to do is to mollify the state of California, demonstrate the willingness to fix stuff, show some progress that over the last two years they've worked on this, adjust pay scales, and generally promise the state to do better. This will be settled out of court, Blizzard will pay some fine (probably a slap on the hand amount) and then it will be up to Blizzard management to insure it sticks. There may be a few heads that roll but I wouldn't expect that it would be any big names (for the most part the really big legacy names that tolerated this for years have already left) but office behavior is ripe for a reset since everyone has been working from home for the last year anyway.

    They have a lot of what's needed—sensitivity training, diversity programs, etc.—in place. Now they need to take them seriously. As a consequence of this just about every other game/development studio with HQ/offices in California will look inward, take note and likely do the same.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  10. #150
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Some women "come forward" just because others did, hoping for some kind of payout. Again, not insinuating that anyone in this case is doing that.
    Yes, you are, or else you wouldn't even be mentioning it.

    Stop victim blaming. It's seriously despicable.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And I am telling you that blaming a girl for being "flirty" when you sexually harass her is a shitty argument that does not hold up, in any circumstance.
    I never said to sexually harass someone. That's a stretch.

    I'm talking about women who flirt with men, heavily come onto them and when they say "would you like to go to dinner?" find themselves sitting in HR.

    Not all companies HR are the same. I'm glad ours has common sense. Asking someone out is one thing. Pursuing it after being told "no", making physical contact or sexual remarks, etc is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    That's nice dear, we're talking about a biased system which has fuck all to do with whether or not some individual is making claims.
    A biased system that we know of.

  12. #152
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    I am suggesting that we reserve judgement until we hear both sides.
    We've heard both sides, dude. Not my fault you haven't been paying attention for the past 10+ years of ActiBlizzion's conduct.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    My only point is that they're not always the victims. Some pretend to be.
    why you people feel this is necessary to making your point is beyond me.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Yes, you are, or else you wouldn't even be mentioning it.

    Stop victim blaming. It's seriously despicable.
    Me: No I'm not

    You: Yes you are

    ???

    There really isn't much more to say. I can see what you're doing and I'm not biting. I hope you have a nice day.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveZaer View Post
    Why shouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt? That's why it's a court case and not a summary judgement. Both sides should get equal time to explain what happened and we should judge the *results* of what come out of court. Not rush to judgement on what was filed.

    It's why due process is so important.
    Dude, you are on mmo-C with armchair lawyer all around you, what do you expect ? They are all guilty because those said so.

  16. #156
    Chris Metzen.

  17. #157
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    imagine defending a multi billion dollar company that doesn't care about you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Chris Metzen.
    nothing been said about Metzen yet... hopefully it wont come to that... this whole mess is soul crushing enough.
    Last edited by Orby; 2021-07-22 at 05:59 PM.
    Proof is boring. Proof is tiresome. Proof is irrelevance. People would rather be handed an easy lie than search for a difficult truth, especially when it suits their own purpose.
    - Glokta
    The Last Argument of Kings, The First Law Trilogy.

  18. #158
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    A biased system that we know of.
    Yes, we know it's biased. That's why whinging about people perjuring themselves is ridiculous since there is actually not a lot of profit to be made in fake harassment or rape claims.

    Do you know who does want you to believe that it's profitable therefore anyone who brings suit against a company is suspect? Hint: It's the same folks who want you to think that suing you for keeping your coffee hot enough to cause third degree burns is "frivolous".

    Y'all are part of the problem. And yeah:

    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    imagine defending a multi billion dollar company that doesn't care about you...
    They're forking out millions to a legion of HR drones and lawyers to do this for them and you do it for free. Some perspective.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    We've heard both sides, dude. Not my fault you haven't been paying attention for the past 10+ years of ActiBlizzion's conduct.
    Hearing both sides in media is not the same as hearing both sides in court. Let the actual lawyers pick apart what happened.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Because doing so creates wiggle room that allows for additional victimization to occur and which can have a chilling effect on others coming forward.

    For starters.



    And now you're conflating the court proceedings with public opinion.

    If a court's not able to prove someone's murdered their spouse beyond a reasonable doubt, but they probably definitely did murder them, it's completely reasonable for everyone to assume they got away with murder and to treat them accordingly.
    Hopefully, you are not in charge of anything. Who are you to say that a person murders for sure another person while being not found guilty of it by a court ? You do realize how dangerous that reasoning is ?

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