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  1. #1941
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    It just doesn't make sense. Its almost if its made up because they should at least look at it from a PR point of view, but even that got overlooked.
    I can confidently say that even before they were laying off folks in marketing/communications, Blizzard did not really invest seriously in their PR arm.

    Not that they'd have had any role in the promotions and salaries, that's purely HR's territory. Which, given that we've had pretty extensive reporting on how dogshit HR was and how they've hired a new head (as of Sept.), I'm not sure this latest news indicates that anything is changing.

  2. #1942
    I really like how you there are constantly new reports on what the heck is going on at Blizzard.

    The sad part about the whole story is that stakeholder opinion is the only thing that moves Blizzard. In the end it is not about the misconduct or creating a community but rather "well investors wanted bobby's neck cause he cause a 30% value loss year-to-year".

  3. #1943
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Jen herself said she had faith blizzard was heading in the right direction during her resignation. Why did she clearly lie
    Because they gave her NPO 1 million dollars.

  4. #1944
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Apparently like edge said they remained at their previous rate.. which is fucking odd.... it was a promotion for both.
    The reality is that it wasn't really a promotion and more a change of job in the same paygrade. They deliberately made them "leaders" as an indiscript title, instead of president or CEO. Especially since the previous head honchos had those titles. It was essentially the first step by Activision to swallow Blizzard properly and likely reduce their autonomy. They may have even been right to do so at first glance, seeing how they clearly couldn't be trusted (ignoring that all of this is all over activison blizzard and deeply rooted). He practically just stayed upper-middle managment, with the beady-eyed trashgoblin being the actual CEO, and it's anyone's guess how they incorporated her into the hierarchy as another former studio head.

    I'm actually more surprised that she wasn't payed more than him to begin with, she was head of vicarious visions while Ybarra was.. EVP and GM of the technical part? I guess they already payed him better for that role, which would usually be middle managment.

    In general I'm starting to get the feeling that Blizzard's internal structures are a mess and they adjust job discriptions as needed to promote people they want in certain positions.
    Last edited by Felis igneus; 2021-11-18 at 06:29 PM.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  5. #1945
    Quote Originally Posted by Felis igneus View Post
    The reality is that it wasn't really a promotiron and more a change of job in the same paygrade. They deliberately made them "leaders" as an indiscript title, instead of president or CEO. Especially since the previous head honchos had those titles. It was essentially the first step by Activision to swallow Blizzard properly and likely reduce their autonomy. They may have even been right to do so at first glance, seeing how they clearly couldn't be trusted (ignoring that all of this is all over activison blizzard and deeply rooted). I'm actually more surprised that she wasn't payed more than him to begin with, she was head of vicarious visions while Ybarra was.. EVP and GM of the technical part? I guess they already payed him better for that role, which would usually be middle managment.

    In general I'm starting to get the feeling that Blizzard's internal structures are a mess and they adjust job discriptions as needed to promote people they want in certain positions.
    Activision already took that first step with the demotion of the head of Blizzard from "CEO" to "President" when Brak took over. And we have plenty of reporting that Activision has had more control over finances within Blizzard for many years now, that's apparently one of the reasons why WC3R was a disaster - the team was unable to get the resources needed to deliver the game they'd marketed. That's a huge change from how Blizzard used to operate, which was usually to give tons of time and very flexible budgets because ultimately they believed the products would pay off in the end (and historically, they have).

    As to the difference, VV is a smaller studio than Blizzard is, so it's not surprising that the head of VV would be paid less than the guy in charge of Battle.net, who came from a senior position within Microsoft previously. Battle.net is a huge part of the overall Blizzard (and now also Activision) business, arguably bigger than many of the individual games on the platform.

    Reporting bears out that Blizzard is a mess internally like pieces from IGN (https://www.ign.com/articles/special...t-a-crossroads). But the changes to the titles of who's in charge of Blizzard aren't coming from Blizzard. That's coming from Activision, who were more than likely thrilled to be able to exert even more control over Blizzard.

  6. #1946
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    As to the difference, VV is a smaller studio than Blizzard is, so it's not surprising that the head of VV would be paid less than the guy in charge of Battle.net, who came from a senior position within Microsoft previously. Battle.net is a huge part of the overall Blizzard (and now also Activision) business, arguably bigger than many of the individual games on the platform.

    Reporting bears out that Blizzard is a mess internally like pieces from IGN (https://www.ign.com/articles/special...t-a-crossroads). But the changes to the titles of who's in charge of Blizzard aren't coming from Blizzard. That's coming from Activision, who were more than likely thrilled to be able to exert even more control over Blizzard.
    Fair enough, though it still just shows that the new position of leader was just a horizontal move in the hierarchy, not a vertical one. I guess it explains why they kept their saleries and how this blunder happned. It's still silly that no one bothered to make sure they are payed the same, given the context of it all. Heck even as HR you should realize what is going on there..

    As for the last paragraph, I actually ment actiblizz, I'm just too used to writing only Blizzard when it comes to fuck ups, that I forgot the proper nomenclature here.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  7. #1947
    Quote Originally Posted by Felis igneus View Post
    Fair enough, though it still just shows that the new position of leader was just a horizontal move in the hierarchy, not a vertical one.
    No, it's absolutely vertical for both, even if it's still a demotion from the previous two titles the heads of Blizzard had. Ybarra was no longer just overseeing one (significant) division, but the whole company. Oneal was no longer overseeing a single studio being folded into Blizzard, but the whole of Blizzard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felis igneus View Post
    It's still silly that no one bothered to make sure they are payed the same, given the context of it all. Heck even as HR you should realize what is going on there..
    Them being under their old contracts for a brief time isn't surprising and makes sense. But that HR was contacted multiple times to rectify the issue and didn't bother to do so until after Oneal turned in her resignation is what makes this actually awful.

  8. #1948
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    No, it's absolutely vertical for both, even if it's still a demotion from the previous two titles the heads of Blizzard had. Ybarra was no longer just overseeing one (significant) division, but the whole company. Oneal was no longer overseeing a single studio being folded into Blizzard, but the whole of Blizzard.
    Blizzard is just a studio as well, a larger, more profitable one admittedly, but it's still just studio head, actually a co-head.

    For Ybarra I would argue it was no movement up, because a(n exec)VP and GM is already right below the CEO or at least the President (depending on what roles your company actually has/uses), so within the overall structure of ActivisonBlizzard he didn't move up. Blizzard effectively lost that position and they created a new position with a new name.

    Since they were originally co-leads you could even argue that depending on their division of work his overall responsibilities didn't increase much. Frankly they could have kept him as EVP&GM of Battle.net and just differentiate that from the rest of the studio and make Oneal just the same for the studio as such and it would have pretty much stayed the same.

    Did they ever state how they split their workload?
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  9. #1949
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    The idea that we need to just tolerate shitty behavior because the end product is good and entertaining is what got us in this position to begin with.

    If consumers actively put energy into buying products produced by companies that showed good behavior, and bear with me because this may surprise you: COMPANIES WOULD BEHAVE.

    Like, JFC. People being a bunch of lazy fuckers who don't give two shits as long as they're entertained is EXACTLY WHY WE'RE HERE.

    Fuckin christ.

    Just...fuck.
    Nobody is tolerating shitty behaviour; we all want it punished equally. Wanting such behaviour to have consequences isn't diminished by the fact that I want Blizzard to deliver good games and for myself to be entertained.

    No, nobody who agrees with me is a "lazy fucker" and my position has got nothing to do with the situation some of these employees find themselves; it boils down to a dozen or more people who can't keep their sexual urge in check. That is all there is to it; get these people out of the picture, bring in a mechanism to make sure it doesn't happen in the future and start doing what you're being paid for. It is a simple task that is ahead of them. Don't forget that thousands of employees were perfectly fine with all of this for years and years, while trying to portray Blizzard's HQ as a sex dungeon for the past few months.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Given that no one was doing any of the things you listed while people were actively sexually harassing people and then putting content in game likely making light of the fact id say it just tells us that the dev's don't like assholes poking fun at them while harassing them.
    Some woman on a portrait in a game doesn't have to have anything to do with someone "making light" of things nor does it have to mean someone is poking fun at someone else; it's simply a female body and the female body has inspired art in various forms for millenia. It's just a whole lot of jaded people who got no clue what they're doing because they have a personal axe to grind with anything even remotely "naughty" and I'm stretching the term here because it's just a low-quality picture of a female. They then also took out "greenskins" out of the game because fictional racism is apparently a problem too.

    They've all lost their compass, from top to bottom, right down the middle of the company hierarchy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Which fuckin sucks, because she's absolutely qualified as shit for the job and has kicked ass running Vicarious Visions.
    Of course they'd find someone who'd look as a senseful pick; it helps cover the intent behind the token promotion.

  10. #1950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Some woman on a portrait in a game doesn't have to have anything to do with someone "making light" of things
    the people in the know who have first hand experience at blizzard disagree so any of your baseless supposition is rather pointless.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #1951
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    In 2018 they had the "Women at Blizzard" panel at Blizzcon. Surprise surprise that lines up pretty well with when California started the lawsuit 3 years ago.
    I remember that and I wanted to bring it up. The woman hosting the panel was blonde if I remember correctly? The VAs were pretty interesting(Laura Bailey being a personal favourite), but the host was extremely annoying with all the obnoxious "female power" vibes that she regurgitated every 30 seconds. The VA cast made me endure at the time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    the people in the know who have first hand experience at blizzard disagree so any of your baseless supposition is rather pointless.
    In that case the people "in the know" are simpletons.

    Most of the people working on these changes now haven't even been around for when these things were first made. Talk about being "in the know".

    They're doing themselves a disfavour, not me. The Warcraft brand is sinking faster than the titanic on a cold Atlantic night and is subject to massive ridicule due to how jaded and ignorant everyone steering the franchise seems to be.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-11-18 at 09:09 PM.

  12. #1952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    In that case the people "in the know" are simpletons.

    Most of the people working on these changes now haven't even been around for when these things were first made.
    or you know there just not ignorant of the situation like you are.

    as to the people working on the changes you have no idea what the make up of the team if or how long they have been there.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #1953
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    or you know there just not ignorant of the situation like you are.

    as to the people working on the changes you have no idea what the make up of the team if or how long they have been there.
    The female portrait being introduced way back when has made it into the game to mock the victims of the Cosby suite gang a decade later? Talk about a stretch of imagination.

    As I've said, jaded simpletons. As much as Bobby represents many things that are and have been wrong with the industry for the past decade, this kind of behaviour by "devs" is a growing cancer on the industry that rinses everything in accordance to the wishes of jaded individuals.

  14. #1954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The female portrait being introduced way back when has made it into the game to mock the victims of the Cosby suite gang a decade later? Talk about a stretch of imagination.
    you you really think any and all sexual harassments started only at the cosby suite?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  15. #1955
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post

    As I've said, jaded simpletons. As much as Bobby represents many things that are and have been wrong with the industry for the past decade, this kind of behaviour by "devs" is a growing cancer on the industry that rinses everything in accordance to the wishes of jaded individuals.
    let's clear this up; swapping pictures of busty women out for bowls of fruit (which doesn't solve the issue of sexual harassment) is a bigger problem in the games industry than wide spread sexual harassment....

  16. #1956
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    let's clear this up; swapping pictures of busty women out for bowls of fruit (which doesn't solve the issue of sexual harassment) is a bigger problem in the games industry than wide spread sexual harassment....
    The problem is that the solution for some people seems to be the removal of said pictures of women. The people harassing others in whichever way should be punished and that's all that needs doing. Starting this virtual crusade that is meant to slap a chastity belt on a fictional universe is pointless.

  17. #1957
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The problem is that the solution for some people seems to be the removal of said pictures of women. The people harassing others in whichever way should be punished and that's all that needs doing. Starting this virtual crusade that is meant to slap a chastity belt on a fictional universe is pointless.
    it is for the company that wants to sweep this issue under the rug. people online focusing on these insignificant changes is exactly what Acti-Blizz wants you to do, instead of talking about.... you know... the absurd amounts of both regular and sexual harassment that goes on at that company. this crusade you're talking about is completely artificial and a product of Blizzard wanting to deflect from the real issue.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2021-11-18 at 09:41 PM.

  18. #1958
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    it is for the company that wants to sweep this issue under the rug. people online focusing on these insignificant changes is exactly what Acti-Blizz wants you to do, instead of talking about.... you know... the absurd amounts of both regular and sexual harassment that goes on at that company. this crusade you're talking about is completely artificial and a product of Blizzard wanting to deflect from the real issue.
    The reason why I mention this is two-fold; not only is it meaningless and trivial for anyone who has been a victim to sexual harassment, but it also tries to divert from said issue by addressing the game itself. I agree with you, but I believe that many of the devs behind these changes think they're doing something amazing and great.

    I also think that many of them are using what befell their colleagues in order to get better pay and benefits; this isn't to say that they don't deserve a decent payment and benefits that should meet their achievements, but many seem to be using this opportunity to get other things done, things that have got nothing to do with the harassment.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2021-11-18 at 09:51 PM.

  19. #1959
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    why do they still have defenders?

    the more info that comes out the more blizzard(and activision kinda) looks more and more pathetic.
    Reactionaries have this pavlovian response to seeing Sexual Abuse allegations against anyone and activate to defend them from 'Lying Woke SJW Feminist Liars' like some sort of sleeper agent. Barely matters who it is, how much evidence is out there, or how otherwise like or disliked either the victims or the accused are.

  20. #1960
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Of course they'd find someone who'd look as a senseful pick; it helps cover the intent behind the token promotion.
    She is a great pick. That Activision tokenized her is purely on Activision, and is gross. It has nothing to do with her, because she kicks ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The problem is that the solution for some people seems to be the removal of said pictures of women.
    That's not a "solution" to anything for anyone. That's just the current team reclaiming the game they're working on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The people harassing others in whichever way should be punished and that's all that needs doing.
    Also, a functional HR department that doesn't defend abusers. Also a culture shift so that abuse and harassment isn't "par for the course". Also new leadership that actually leads by example and doesn't put up with abuse/harassment within the company.

    It's nowhere near as easy/simple as you make it out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Starting this virtual crusade that is meant to slap a chastity belt on a fictional universe is pointless.
    This ain't a virtual crusade and that you're jumping to such a hyperbolic extreme is like, pretty wild.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I also think that many of them are using what befell their colleagues in order to get better pay and benefits; this isn't to say that they don't deserve a decent payment and benefits that should meet their achievements, but many seem to be using this opportunity to get other things done, things that have got nothing to do with the harassment.
    Yeah, all those selfish Activision-Blizzard employees fighting for better pay and benefits for...contract staff who are not employees?

    You don't seem to be paying attention to what's actually happening, or your attention is so focused on the minor changes to in-game artwork and divining the internal thoughts of the dev team that you're missing the forest for the tree.

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