Activision-Blizzard Sued By California

[mauserr]

Just, like, don't sleep around at work, don't be baiting people at work, just use your time at work for you know, work. Do what you have to, go home, go to a pub, a concert, whatever. Not sure what so hard about it. You're asking for trouble otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcqY40Kx2RY

Although this did indeed make me cringe hard. They were trying just a bit too hard to be on the edge of being on edge. Maximum edge.

[Katchii]

It's a good thing the players aren't anyone's bosses, then. That's a question for the team internally, not an answer they owe consumers.

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's a question people will still ask, whether it's their business or not. I don't think the people asking are bad people for just asking the question. Whether they're owed the answer is a different discussion. Eventually I believe they are owed the answer. With Blizzard still apparently reeling from this and still figuring it out themselves, now is not a good time to do so and I'll agree asking for the answer now is insensitive. But insensitive is not the same as morally wrong, or whatever description was being attributed to them earlier.

[Chilela]

So (so) many people I know have stopped playing wow, stopped their subscriptions, stopped their wow podcasts, etc. over this and have no intention of ever returning. This is FAR beyond something where adding or removing an in-game NPC will help. Not to say there won't be people that don't care and will continue to play and/or support wow. But the combination of 9.x and The Maw being super-underwhelming had it reeling, and this lawsuit was like the knockout uppercut. The timing of FF and New World actually being quality mmo competition also didn't help. But mostly, this has been self-inflicted by Blizzard.

The odd thing is I'm not sure Blizzard even realizes yet the size of the tsunami that is hitting them. From their lack of response (near victim-blaming) it appears they are really seriously underestimating it. Every wow player I know has moved to FF or New World, and many have made comments to the effect of refusing to ever financially support Blizzard again. Meanwhile Blizzard remains quiet and seems to think this is just a minor issue that will pass if they ignore it, which is colossally wrong.

If we're talking personal experiences, most of my own WoW guild is, at most, on the fence about continuing to play WoW as of now as a direct result of this controversy. The ones that stopped did so well before these allegations dropped, and by extension, for wholly different reasons. Although it's highly probable that it's less likely they return because of them.

I do agree that this is a largely self-inflicted wound, albeit for slightly different reasons. While this lawsuit definitely doesn't help things, the fact that they've spent the last several years courting the same people who would get the most outraged about it may end up coming back to bite them. And the kicker? The subsequent legal battles will likely be wholly irrelevant in their eyes. Even if enough information comes out down the road to reasonably conclude that the allegations presented aren't wholly true, a good chunk of the crowd in question will continue holding their current beliefs about it.

[Forogil]

I listed to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdwT...l=BellularNews
and noticed several interesting points (specifically which teams were involved, that some claiming ignorance did know etc) but unfortunately without sources - we will see what comes of it.

He also stated that a certain field marshal no longer spawn and that other remnants will be scrubbed; I haven't been able to confirm that.

However, he also mentioned that the 'Cosby suite' puts a time on when some things happened; as the allegations about Bill Cosby only came in the public eye in the mid 2010s (I see times between 2014 and 2016; I believe some in the US can give a more exact data). Clearly some allegations against Cosby were known before that - but not public enough to use a reference that others would directly understand. It could possibly be later as the Cosby trial unfolded, but I would guess before late 2017, since the metoo-movement pushed other offenders into the lime-light.

And with the next statement I'm done with another pseudo-discussion. It seems that when some see this they think of the victims, others want to discuss how it impacts their experience in game, and some just want to discuss their pet social issues.

The technical term for an ideology of the superiority of one "race" over another is Racism and people who hold these beliefs and act on them are racist.

Or in other words you continue to argue that racism is only racism if it is ideological and systematic racism; despite the dictionary defining a racist without such qualifications. No-one is denying that such racism is racism - they are only saying that other racism is also racism.

So, when a Blizzard employee has the racist view that Mexican men act in a certain way that is racist (and sexist).
However, it's not part of the law-suit as the law-suit is about systematic sexism, and the mistreatment of Mexican men wasn't that systematically racist and sexist (and since a large part of the law-suit is about compensation it doesn't fit in that perspective either).

- - - Updated - - -

It's like if you happened to get into a car accident and be put out of commission, either temporarily or permanently, and you were working on a major project at work and your boss asked the team you were working on how your situation will affect that project timeline. That's not an evil, morally wrong question....unless it's asked at a very awkward time (which I suppose may be part of the issue here).

I would say it's also a matter of what else you say in that car accident situation.

If you lead with that question it's bad.
If you start by asking how about their status - like if they are hurt, actually listening, and then leading into the question about the work you can get the same information and still seem like an actual human being. You can also throw in some "oh, take the time you need" for bonus points.

[NoiseTank13]

However, he also mentioned that the 'Cosby suite' puts a time on when some things happened; as the allegations about Bill Cosby only came in the public eye in the mid 2010s (I see times between 2014 and 2016; I believe some in the US can give a more exact data). Clearly some allegations against Cosby were known before that - but not public enough to use a reference that others would directly understand. It could possibly be later as the Cosby trial unfolded, but I would guess before late 2017, since the metoo-movement pushed other offenders into the lime-light.

IIRC it was "Crosby" as in Bing Crosby, a notorious womanizer from the 30's to 50's.

[Lynarii]

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's a question people will still ask, whether it's their business or not. I don't think the people asking are bad people for just asking the question. Whether they're owed the answer is a different discussion. Eventually I believe they are owed the answer. With Blizzard still apparently reeling from this and still figuring it out themselves, now is not a good time to do so and I'll agree asking for the answer now is insensitive. But insensitive is not the same as morally wrong, or whatever description was being attributed to them earlier.

I think the reason that people are calling it out as morally wrong is because the implication that the question gives being asked right at this moment is that if it got patches out faster and higher quality, the customer base would be in favor of allowing the sexual harassment to continue. Because that's a big part of what was happening, it got pushed under the rug and hidden not because everyone thought it was okay, but because dealing with it would mean firing otherwise talented people who weren't easy to replace and it would set the games back to do so. It's like that guy on a raid team that everyone knows is an asshole and everyone hates, but he's also top DPS and you're /barely/ making enrages, so even though everyone knows it'd be better with him gone nobody wants to risk regressing a boss or two by pulling the trigger on kicking him.

People may not be intending to give this implication, but the reality is that maintaining quality and timeline 'at all costs' is directly responsible for what happened.

[Forogil]

IIRC it was "Crosby" as in Bing Crosby, a notorious womanizer from the 30's to 50's.

The suit says it was named after the alleged rapist Bill Crosby, which obviously is Bing Crosby's brother - unless they managed to misspell Bill Cosby, which would be really non-shocking in terms of legal documents.

[Specialka]

I think the reason that people are calling it out as morally wrong is because the implication that the question gives being asked right at this moment is that if it got patches out faster and higher quality, the customer base would be in favor of allowing the sexual harassment to continue. Because that's a big part of what was happening, it got pushed under the rug and hidden not because everyone thought it was okay, but because dealing with it would mean firing otherwise talented people who weren't easy to replace and it would set the games back to do so. It's like that guy on a raid team that everyone knows is an asshole and everyone hates, but he's also top DPS and you're /barely/ making enrages, so even though everyone knows it'd be better with him gone nobody wants to risk regressing a boss or two by pulling the trigger on kicking him.

People may not be intending to give this implication, but the reality is that maintaining quality and timeline 'at all costs' is directly responsible for what happened.

Maybe they should not have let them come to work drunk then ? Or let them play at video game on working hours ?

[Levelfive]

https://www.polygon.com/22595703/act...lk-out-lawsuit

Includes some stuff that I hadn't seen posted yet, including the employees' statement of intent:

"Given last week’s statements from Activision Blizzard, Inc. and their legal counsel regarding the DFEH lawsuit, as well as the subsequent internal statement from Frances Townsend, and the many stories shared by current and former employees of Activision Blizzard since, we believe that our values as employees are not being accurately reflected in the words and actions of our leadership.

As current Activision Blizzard employees, we are holding a walkout to call on the executive leadership team to work with us on the following demands, in order to improve conditions for employees at the company, especially women, and in particular women of color and transgender women, nonbinary people, and other marginalized groups.

1. An end to mandatory arbitration clauses in all employee contracts, current and future. Arbitration clauses protect abusers and limit the ability of victims to seek restitution.

2. The adoption of recruiting, interviewing, hiring, and promotion policies designed to improve representation among employees at all levels, agreed upon by employees in a company-wide Diversity, Equity & Inclusion organization. Current practices have led to women, in particular women of color and transgender women, nonbinary people, and other marginalized groups that are vulnerable to gender discrimination not being hired fairly for new roles when compared to men.

3. Publication of data on relative compensation (including equity grants and profit sharing), promotion rates, and salary ranges for employees of all genders and ethnicities at the company. Current practices have led to aforementioned groups not being paid or promoted fairly.

4. Empower a company-wide Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion task force to hire a third party to audit ABK’s reporting structure, HR department, and executive staff. It is imperative to identify how current systems have failed to prevent employee harassment, and to propose new solutions to address these issues."

[downnola]

And with the next statement I'm done with another pseudo-discussion. It seems that when some see this they think of the victims, others want to discuss how it impacts their experience in game, and some just want to discuss their pet social issues.

So, when a Blizzard employee has the racist view that Mexican men act in a certain way that is racist (and sexist).
However, it's not part of the law-suit as the law-suit is about systematic sexism, and the mistreatment of Mexican men wasn't that systematically racist and sexist (and since a large part of the law-suit is about compensation it doesn't fit in that perspective either).

People have left Blizzard over allegations of racism and it's referenced in the lawsuit. I wasn't making up the story about the woman who had to write an essay to justify taking PTO.

Or in other words you continue to argue that racism is only racism if it is ideological and systematic racism; despite the dictionary defining a racist without such qualifications. No-one is denying that such racism is racism - they are only saying that other racism is also racism.

The dictionary doesn't specifically state that Marxism is an ideology either, but that doesn't mean it isn't an ideology.

Definition of ideology
1a: a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture
b: the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program
c: a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture
2: visionary theorizing

Now let's take another look at the definition of racism now that we have a general idea of what an ideology is:

Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
also : behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice
2.a: the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another
specifically : WHITE SUPREMACY sense 2
institutional racism
2.b: a political or social system founded on racism and designed to execute its principles

I don't know, it certainly looks like an ideology to me.

And I'm not arguing that words can only be used in one way. I'm not the one telling people they're wrong and to only look at one entry in the definition of the word (nevermind that the way I want to use the word is simply a footnote in the actual definition), and if that definition doesn't specifically mention other words then your argument is invalid and is a pet pseudo-discussion that I'm totally above, but let me respond a few more times and argue my case, but keep in mind I'm way too good for this silly conversation.

[Rennadrel]

Not sure if posted yet as i have not gone through all pages but this is a pretty good break down of what actually can happen.

Hoeg Law does good really good videos, he's definitely a worthy follow if you are into legal stuff in the tech industry.

[Forogil]

Maybe they should not have let them come to work drunk then ?

Good idea, but the fact that they focused so much on the drinking in the recruitment messages indicate that they didn't realize this.

Or let them play at video game on working hours ?

That's debatable; they can always claim that there was some work-related reason to play video-games - their own to improve the games, competitors' to understand what people like in them.

I'm not saying that those claims are true - only that some will make them.

[Specialka]

Good idea, but the fact that they focused so much on the drinking in the recruitment messages indicate that they didn't realize this.


That's debatable; they can always claim that there was some work-related reason to play video-games - their own to improve the games, competitors' to understand what people like in them.

I'm not saying that those claims are true - only that some will make them.

Obviously, but I fail to see what a wow dev tends to gain by playing Call of Duty. An Overwatch dev maybe, but a wow one ?

[Lynarii]

Obviously, but I fail to see what a wow dev tends to gain by playing Call of Duty. An Overwatch dev maybe, but a wow one ?

In all honesty, I'm okay with the idea of people (especially people who work in jobs that require creativity and thinking) taking breaks and getting some mental stress release during work hours. With the obvious qualifier of 'as long as it doesn't negatively impact their work'. I work in the sciences myself, and I can absolutely say that if you try to overwork me without enough mental downtime, my work by the 8 hour mark is going to require me going back over the next day to check for and fix mistakes that wouldn't have been made in the first place if I had been allowed to destress a bit.

You can say that the people in this specific example were probably abusing their freedom and it WAS negatively impacting their work and you're probably right. But the problem there is in the people who couldn't be responsible with it. Who also seem to be the same people who couldn't be responsible with their hands or their alcohol or anything else they had discretion over.

[Evilfish]

After this shit, especially that dev prick coming out and accusing players of being inhuman for telling them to deal with their own crap, do their damned jobs and deliver what their customers are paying them for, that they are part of the problem, I'm starting to understand the reason behind the Gamer Gate movement.

It's very funny to me that every SJW motherfucker with proverbial skeletons in their closet are throwing that line at you pretty fucking often "you are part of the problem".

I just want to play a fucking game.

[Edge-]

deliver what their customers are paying them for

Your wish is granted: Servers are live.

That's all your subscriptions have ever paid for. Ever.

[Specialka]

In all honesty, I'm okay with the idea of people (especially people who work in jobs that require creativity and thinking) taking breaks and getting some mental stress release during work hours. With the obvious qualifier of 'as long as it doesn't negatively impact their work'. I work in the sciences myself, and I can absolutely say that if you try to overwork me without enough mental downtime, my work by the 8 hour mark is going to require me going back over the next day to check for and fix mistakes that wouldn't have been made in the first place if I had been allowed to destress a bit.

You can say that the people in this specific example were probably abusing their freedom and it WAS negatively impacting their work and you're probably right. But the problem there is in the people who couldn't be responsible with it. Who also seem to be the same people who couldn't be responsible with their hands or their alcohol or anything else they had discretion over.

Oh but we do agree but in this case, it seems it was negatively impacting their work. It seems as they did as they please without any check.

[Ursus]

After this shit, especially that dev prick coming out and accusing players of being inhuman for telling them to deal with their own crap, do their damned jobs and deliver what their customers are paying them for, that they are part of the problem, I'm starting to understand the reason behind the Gamer Gate movement.

It's very funny to me that every SJW motherfucker with proverbial skeletons in their closet are throwing that line at you pretty fucking often "you are part of the problem".

I just want to play a fucking game.

Come on, be honest, you "understood" the reason right from the very beginning.

[Evilfish]

Your wish is granted: Servers are live.

That's all your subscriptions have ever paid for. Ever.

Sorry, not a classic fan. If all I wanted were working servers that's what I'd be. I pay them to keep me entertained, that's why I bother to pay the price of expansions, I want to be amazed and go "wooow" at the new stuff they throw at me and that takes more than just functional servers.

- - - Updated - - -

Come on, be honest, you "understood" the reason right from the very beginning.

Didn't even know what it really was about until a week ago.

[Edge-]

Sorry, not a classic fan.

This applies to live as well. Your subscription has never entitled you to new content, it only entitles you to access to the game.