Activision-Blizzard Sued By California

[qwerty123456]

By pirating their products. Sure, Jan.



You seem to be confusing criticising people resisting investigation or consequences because of attachment to a product with telling people not to consume the product. Lol.

Are you dense? Clearly you are supporting a product by pirating it just not financially. And I'm sure all your stuff is pirated.

No I'm saying if you really had morals you wouldn't support immoral products/production of products.

You are trying to justify peoples suffering just because you would be ok if the company got shut down. "Slavery is bad. As soon as slavery is abolished I'm going to get rid of mine."

There's a pretty damned big difference between "I oppose anything being done to resolve these issues if it impedes my enjoyment", which is the position I was arguing against, and "I will simultaneously push for conditions to be improved while continuing to exist in society", which is what you and others are attacking me for and claiming to be "hypocrisy".

He didn't say that though.

And consuming products made through slave labor and other horrible things isn't pushing to improve conditions its maintaining the status quo. Infact its helping reinforce it since they make more money. It's not like its water or something you are forced to consume or die.

[unfilteredJW]

Are you dense? Clearly you are supporting a product by pirating it just not financially. And I'm sure all your stuff is pirated.

No I'm saying if you really had morals you wouldn't support immoral products.

You are trying to justify peoples suffering just because you would be ok if the company got shut down. "Slavery is bad. As soon as slavery is abolished I'm going to get rid of mine."

It’s like you are going out of your way to be the cartoon shown.

[Elegiac]

No I'm saying if you really had morals you wouldn't support immoral products.

Your point being...what? Everyone has no morals therefore nobody should ever point out an injustice?

Wow, I wonder what status quo that assertion serves. /s

You are trying to justify peoples suffering

Isn't your complaint literally that people are pointing out unethical business conduct? Fairly sure that's the exact opposite of "justifying people's suffering".

[Endus]

He didn't say that though.

Post history says otherwise;
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53322912

Literally where I started that comment chain. For that reason.

And consuming products made through slave labor and other horrible things isn't pushing to improve conditions its maintaining the status quo. Infact its helping reinforce it since they make more money. It's not like its water or something you are forced to consume or die.

This is "Mr. Gotcha" bad-faith bullshit, and doesn't deserve an answer. It's baiting, not discussion.

[qwerty123456]

Your point being...what? Everyone has no morals therefore nobody should ever point out an injustice?

Wow, I wonder what status quo that assertion serves. /s



Isn't your complaint literally that people are pointing out unethical business conduct? Fairly sure that's the exact opposite of "justifying people's suffering".

No... I was point out claiming someone is horrible for wanting their game over the people who make it while doing the same thing except a thousand times worse is hypocritical.

My complaint isn't about pointing out unethical business conduct. Calling out someone else for not giving a shit while you are doing the exact thing with a different product is what I'm calling out. It's good to call out bullshit.

Post history says otherwise;
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53322912

Literally where I started that comment chain. For that reason.


This is "Mr. Gotcha" bad-faith bullshit, and doesn't deserve an answer. It's baiting, not discussion.

Clearly you can't read because:

"do you people actually want Blizzard as a whole to go under with all their IPs, or do you just want a reform? The vigorous fervor people have with wanting more exciting bad news headlines makes it seem like the former. And that's obviously not just for this site, but everywhere right now."
Doesn't say anything about :
"I oppose anything being done to resolve these issues if it impedes my enjoyment".

So who really is the bad faith actor here? I just called out your bullshit.

[Elegiac]

No... I was point out claiming someone is horrible for wanting their game over the people who make it while doing the same thing except a thousand times worse is hypocritical.

Sure, provided you repeatedly ignore the people do not want their movies over the people that make them but simply do not have a choice because we live in a Late Capitalist hellscape where the industry standard is pretty shit.

You'll note that not one person here has actually called anyone out for still playing Blizzard games; what is being criticised is aforementioned complaining that said unethical conduct is a non issue because the games are more important.

I really do think it's a function of you taking the criticism personally and kneejerking, tbh.

Calling out someone else for not giving a shit while you are doing the exact thing with a different product is what I'm calling out.

Except... we do give a shit about that other product. You are literally just rehashing the Mister Gotcha argument and hoping it becomes less meme-worthy the more it's repeated. Lol.

[Endus]

Clearly you can't read because:

"do you people actually want Blizzard as a whole to go under with all their IPs, or do you just want a reform? The vigorous fervor people have with wanting more exciting bad news headlines makes it seem like the former. And that's obviously not just for this site, but everywhere right now."
Doesn't say anything about :
"I oppose anything being done to resolve these issues if it impedes my enjoyment".

So who really is the bad faith actor here? I just called out your bullshit.

Their position holds up "Blizzard going under with all their IPs" as a "bad thing" as if that were grounds to oppose seeking justice for those injured by the toxic culture at Blizzard.

So no; you didn't call out anything. That post says pretty much what I paraphrased. That you shouldn't seek to address these kinds of issues, because it might impact on people's enjoyment.

They even made it clearer in their later response;

People don't want to lose their things, so hopefully the servers and IP don't go anywhere

You claim there's some material difference to be had between my paraphrase, and what they said. What is it? Be specific. Don't just hand-wave and claim they're totes different, because I'm looking at them, and they are not.

Edit: Also, to make clear (again) the material difference; I have never made a case that any corporate abuses by any company are "worth it" or something I'll overlook if I can continue to get the products they make which I enjoy. I support Johannsen suing Disney, and have openly said so in other threads here. I hope the Mouse loses that case. That's completely separate from my enjoyment of the MCU films. I am in no way arguing that the company should be given a "free pass" or their conduct deemed acceptable based on my desire for their product. With Disney or any other company.

That's the difference.

[qwerty123456]

Their position holds up "Blizzard going under with all their IPs" as a "bad thing" as if that were grounds to oppose seeking justice for those injured by the toxic culture at Blizzard.

So no; you didn't call out anything. That post says pretty much what I paraphrased. That you shouldn't seek to address these kinds of issues, because it might impact on people's enjoyment.

They even made it clearer in their later response;


You claim there's some material difference to be had between my paraphrase, and what they said. What is it? Be specific. Don't just hand-wave and claim they're totes different, because I'm looking at them, and they are not.

Edit: Also, to make clear (again) the material difference; I have never made a case that any corporate abuses by any company are "worth it" or something I'll overlook if I can continue to get the products they make which I enjoy. I support Johannsen suing Disney, and have openly said so in other threads here. I hope the Mouse loses that case. That's completely separate from my enjoyment of the MCU films. I am in no way arguing that the company should be given a "free pass" or their conduct deemed acceptable based on my desire for their product. With Disney or any other company.

That's the difference.

A paraphrase? Lol. Nowhere does either comment say he opposes anything being done. He was asking do people really want justice or just to burn everything to the ground then states" People don't want to lose their things, so hopefully the servers and IP don't go anywhere" how is that opposing anything done? The only thing that is opposing is completely dismantling the company. The material difference is they never mentioned "no justice" where you think he claims he opposes anything being done to resolve these issues if it impedes my enjoyment. Those are your words. Can you not see the difference between saying I hope the company doesn't go under and fuck every employee if it means I can play my game?

By supporting a company and paying them you support their misdeeds. Disney isn't water you don't need it. And there is alot more shit than just Scarlet's lawsuit.

[Rozz]

This is starting to derail, so lets get back on topic.

[draynay]

If you're defending Yuppie you really need to reevaluate your stance regardless of how much you like trying to gotcha Endus.

This is starting to derail, so lets get back on topic.

Haha, I thought I was the king of understatement, its really circling the drain in this thread aint it?


Anyway, closer to the topic, I don't see why people are failing to grasp that there is nuance between "blizz must die" and "blizz did nothing wrong". False dichotomies are some of the most stale and uninteresting arguments on the internet.

[Metrox]

If it can be proven that Bobby Kotick himself knew about this in years past, but had a role in dismissing/downpaying etc, then shit could get really interesting....

However, Mr Kotick no doubt has a team of extremely expensive lawyers who will make sure he gets as much distance + plausible deniability as he needs, to not be personally implicated or exposed legally.

I did read the SOX document for the year 2016 and Bobby is the one signing off on it. I know that we all agree to things like EULA's without reading them, but in the courtroom we are responsible for the things we agree/certify to. Bobby is the Guild Leader in this one and his raid team is staring at a boss they haven't encountered before. With the second lawsuit, it might be the Twin Emps for the frat boy raiding team.

[starlord]

tbh i think it would be good for blizz to fade out and make room for new games. mmos as a genre have been strangled by WoW.

[YUPPIE]

To the other person demanding I explain myself and my apparent indifference to the suffering of others:

Yes, I do value personal satisfaction (read: satisfaction; I have been diagnosed as someone fundamentally incapable of genuine happiness or peace of mind) over what happens with other people in the world. In this case, it's video games, which have laid out the foundation for a lot of escapism and fleeting "good times" in a questionable life.

I do at least recognize what is morally dubious or bad, which in this case is Blizzard's upper management. However, if put into a choice where

1. The entire company has to go down for justice to be found and everyone associated has to part ways, the servers and IPs all shutting down forever

2. The worst people in charge are axed but there is no real justice or change, the cycle may possibly renew itself, but the IPs and servers stay

I would choose the latter because it is more meaningful to me to keep my things. In the same sense, if I had to give up my computers and electronic tablets with tons of my needs because they were made on slave labor, to remain true to idealism and human decency, I would not do it. It doesn't change anything in a world already rotten to the core, and all it does is deprive me of what makes me feel sort of alive.

Those are some of my beliefs all laid out.

[unfilteredJW]

To the other person demanding I explain myself and my apparent indifference to the suffering of others:

Yes, I do value personal satisfaction (read: satisfaction; I have been diagnosed as someone fundamentally incapable of genuine happiness or peace of mind) over what happens with other people in the world. In this case, it's video games, which have laid out the foundation for a lot of escapism and fleeting "good times" in a questionable life.

I do at least recognize what is morally dubious or bad, which in this case is Blizzard's upper management. However, if put into a choice where

1. The entire company has to go down for justice to be found and everyone associated has to part ways, the servers and IPs all shutting down forever

2. The worst people in charge are axed but there is no real justice or change, the cycle may possibly renew itself, but the IPs and servers stay

I would choose the latter because it is more meaningful to me to keep my things. In the same sense, if I had to give up my computers and electronic tablets with tons of my needs because they were made on slave labor, to remain true to idealism and human decency, I would not do it. It doesn't change anything in a world already rotten to the core, and all it does is deprive me of what makes me feel sort of alive.

Those are some of my beliefs all laid out.

Lots of words to say "I'm a selfish cunt."

[Cthulhu 2020]

tbh i think it would be good for blizz to fade out and make room for new games. mmos as a genre have been strangled by WoW.

Blizz is too big to fail, but I have a somewhat similar view on this. I realize that there are people who want to play WoW til the day they die and would do so willingly no matter how bad the game got. So I think they deserve recognition. It would be great if Blizzard sold the warcraft IP, or if Activision released Blizzard from their partnership, allowing them to pursue some real game design. But I don't see activisionblizzard letting go of the warcraft IP either. They'll drag it in the grave with them, knowing they can milk the warcraft IP in the future off of nostalgic hardcore fans.

[Mayhem]

tbh i think it would be good for blizz to fade out and make room for new games. mmos as a genre have been strangled by WoW.

how have they been strangled?

I vividly remember swtor and how much fun it was until I started to recognize past bugs that wow had, that and absolutely no endgame content.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Honestly at this point I don't care to much about good or bad game concepts with this subject because the more pressing issue seems to be who is good or bad people and handling that first.

[uuuhname]

woot, one war criminal down.

[segara82]

I consider it a real possibility that at this point with 2 major lawsuits Activision will just absorb Blizzard to get rid of the name and the associated shame. Maybe sell a few parts for a quick cash infusion to pay off the suing parties.

[Woobels]

I consider it a real possibility that at this point with 2 major lawsuits Activision will just absorb Blizzard to get rid of the name and the associated shame. Maybe sell a few parts for a quick cash infusion to pay off the suing parties.

I've read somewhere this is already happening, Activision is going to take over as many of the leadership positions as possible in the Blizzard side of things over the coming couple years. This was always the plan but current happenings is accelerating it.