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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Did Blizzard just forget that a lot of their fans are adults now, and that we appreciate a little bit of nuance or moral ambiguity?
    Absolutely agree. So glad they didn't just do the obvious thing and killing her. There are so many questions to ask now.

    1. Will she be in out of commission like Uther did when he got back his piece of his soul?
    2. How do we get her out of it?
    3. When she's back, which leaders are willing to trust her?
    4. How does she prove to us she's not lying?
    5. How do we prove to those skeptical leaders she's not lying?
    6. What is the catch?
    7. Where the hell is Nathanos?

  2. #62
    It was fine, it was just about what I expected and I wasnt really disappointed.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Blightrose View Post
    It was fine, it was just about what I expected and I wasnt really disappointed.
    This is my opinion as well. Wow's story telling has always been cheesy, campy and very predictable. To me that was part of it's appeal. Why is it a big issue now? What was the straw that broke the camel's back in this particular instance?

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by catalystical View Post
    Absolutely agree. So glad they didn't just do the obvious thing and killing her. There are so many questions to ask now.

    1. Will she be in out of commission like Uther did when he got back his piece of his soul?
    2. How do we get her out of it?
    3. When she's back, which leaders are willing to trust her?
    4. How does she prove to us she's not lying?
    5. How do we prove to those skeptical leaders she's not lying?
    6. What is the catch?
    7. Where the hell is Nathanos?
    Yes, looking forward to 9.2 for those. It is interesting for me.

    I do hope Blizzard will put her into doghouse for good 2 expansions or so.

    I am sure that in the end we all will be holding hands with her like a big happy family, as if nothing happened. But I most certainly also hope that Blizzard puts her on a path of reflection where she owns up her shit and works her ass off to try and earnestly pay for all that via some eventual anti-hero path. And the whole thing takes good 2-3 expansions like Jaina's identity crisis, for example.

    The worst thing that could happen is Blizz going ingame the easy way of "oh all the atrocities were that other Sylvanas with red eyes, totally not our new good Sylvanas with blue eyes, blue eyes means good and nice let's hug."
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by jcf190 View Post
    This is my opinion as well. Wow's story telling has always been cheesy, campy and very predictable. To me that was part of it's appeal. Why is it a big issue now? What was the straw that broke the camel's back in this particular instance?
    Because you can have a cheesy, campy and predictable story that is still fun and enjoyable (like pretty much the whole MoP expansion).

    This time it's extremely inconsistent, cheesy in an annoying way where everyone speaks...very...slow... with stone faces and "epic" phrases that mean nothing, and simply boring. Oh no, the reality is going to be unmade by some random evil guy with no backstory! Compare that to going against Garrosh, and MoP blows this out of the water.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    You think Legion had good main story?
    Better than TBC, Cata, WoD, BfA and SL. Legion's story was no masterpiece, but better than most what WoW has to offer. It was easily the best thing about Legion.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2021-07-23 at 12:01 PM.

  7. #67
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Warcraft lore and stories have hardly been Shakespeare from the start. People watch B movies despite them being campy and cringe inducing and enjoy them. This twist was telegraphed 6 months ago and was fine then when she had doubts about giving Anduin the sword and it was fine when she realised how the Jailer was just using her.

    I have no problems with any of the stories of Shadowlands so far. I think you're setting some rather unrealistic expectations on a fantasy game guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Better than TBC, Cata, WoD, BfA and SL. Legion's story was no masterpiece, but better than most what WoW has to offer. It was easily the best thing about Legion.
    To be fair, none of the expansions up until Legion really had an overarching narrative plot linking everything together. The previous expansions had a theme and a target but no interlinking story. BFA was the same, it's just a shame that every story about a war between the Horde and the Alliance is pretty boring.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Maybe she, for some reason, doesn't know that Jailer is responsible for the Lich King, or Arthas going all wack..

    But she sure as fuck knows who Kel'thuzad is, and why she'd ever accept working with him is beyond me.
    What??? If WE know the Jailer made the Lich King, so does she.... I mean she sucked out Anduin's soul just like Arthas sucked out hers.
    AND as she pointed out in the raid trailer - she didn't do it as a "servant".

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    Quote Originally Posted by catalystical View Post
    Absolutely agree. So glad they didn't just do the obvious thing and killing her. There are so many questions to ask now.

    1. Will she be in out of commission like Uther did when he got back his piece of his soul?
    2. How do we get her out of it?
    3. When she's back, which leaders are willing to trust her?
    4. How does she prove to us she's not lying?
    5. How do we prove to those skeptical leaders she's not lying?
    6. What is the catch?
    7. Where the hell is Nathanos?
    How about she gets executed for the genocide and the artrocities she committed. She is not fit to be a leader. She is a psychopath.


  9. #69
    the main writer is called Daloser for a reason

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    The issue here is that they spent the last two expansions basically having her serve him as her major plot points and making Anduin serve as well... but... yeah she will never serve... again? I guess...
    To be as charitable to the writers as possible I reckon that Sylvanas might, up until the Jailer proclaimed that actually his goal all along had been domination, have believed that they were partners, working together both with vested interests in the breaking of the wheel that is life and death.

    Then boom with the realization that the Jailer wasn't going to do that and in fact just wanted to rule she decided that she'd never serve him.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    To be as charitable to the writers as possible I reckon that Sylvanas might, up until the Jailer proclaimed that actually his goal all along had been domination, have believed that they were partners, working together both with vested interests in the breaking of the wheel that is life and death.

    Then boom with the realization that the Jailer wasn't going to do that and in fact just wanted to rule she decided that she'd never serve him.
    The Jailer is the very reason she had to endure this fate of hers - at this point there's no way she could not be aware of that.


  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    The Jailer is the very reason she had to endure this fate of hers - at this point there's no way she could not be aware of that.
    Was the Jailer in control of Arthas and the Lich King?
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  13. #73
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    At least Jaina earned her growth somewhat, so I don't want to throw it all out either.

    Still it's insulting the way Blizzard keeps writing these female characters. Someone else provides them power, power goes to their head, power is taken away, woopsie.
    Jaina still has her power, alleria still has her power, azshara still has her power. The only people who have this are tyrande and sylvanas.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Better than TBC, Cata, WoD, BfA and SL. Legion's story was no masterpiece, but better than most what WoW has to offer. It was easily the best thing about Legion.
    Lets visit Burning Legions "home world". The biggest army in the entire universe. Where small crew of "lightforged" fighters survived due to help of few broken draenei who hide in caves spying on army that uses space ships and interdimensional portals. And then handful of heroes come, destroy everything. Fight "world soul in physical" form. And then all of a sudden, without ANY clue or hint, Sargeras, leader of the Burning Legion appears grinding his c0ck on our planet, does 0 dmg to it with his MASSIVE BURNING BODY, but gives a random stab and gets yeeted away into tiny crystal prison.

  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catalystical View Post
    1. Will she be in out of commission like Uther did when he got back his piece of his soul?
    2. How do we get her out of it?
    3. When she's back, which leaders are willing to trust her?
    4. How does she prove to us she's not lying?
    5. How do we prove to those skeptical leaders she's not lying?
    6. What is the catch?
    7. Where the hell is Nathanos?
    9.2 will feature an exciting new system: Trust
    You will be able to prove yourself to Sylvanas that you have the best interests of reality in mind, willing to work alongside the master strategist herself, proving to the leader of the Horde and Alliance that she was a hero all along
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Warcraft lore and stories have hardly been Shakespeare from the start. People watch B movies despite them being campy and cringe inducing and enjoy them. This twist was telegraphed 6 months ago and was fine then when she had doubts about giving Anduin the sword and it was fine when she realised how the Jailer was just using her.

    I have no problems with any of the stories of Shadowlands so far. I think you're setting some rather unrealistic expectations on a fantasy game guys.

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    To be fair, none of the expansions up until Legion really had an overarching narrative plot linking everything together. The previous expansions had a theme and a target but no interlinking story. BFA was the same, it's just a shame that every story about a war between the Horde and the Alliance is pretty boring.
    Cata, MoP and WoD were the "Garrosh arc". MoP in particular was the foundation for most new WoW characters we have now. Jaina, Anduin, Wrathion, Baine... All those characters (and probably much more, I just picked the first that came to mind) were set up in MoP. Jaina existed before, yes, but had hardly any relevance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    Lets visit Burning Legions "home world". The biggest army in the entire universe. Where small crew of "lightforged" fighters survived due to help of few broken draenei who hide in caves spying on army that uses space ships and interdimensional portals. And then handful of heroes come, destroy everything. Fight "world soul in physical" form. And then all of a sudden, without ANY clue or hint, Sargeras, leader of the Burning Legion appears grinding his c0ck on our planet, does 0 dmg to it with his MASSIVE BURNING BODY, but gives a random stab and gets yeeted away into tiny crystal prison.
    As I said, no masterpiece. But compare this to:
    TBC: We need a beautiful race for the Horde, let's make Kael a loot piniata and his followers join the Horde. Oh, Illidan? Yeah, loot piniata, ignore everything he did in WC3. In essence TBC did not advance the WoW lore at all, it was just an expansion that focussed on gameplay and burned characters left and right.
    Cata: Oh, a big Dragon is mad! Hey, Ragnaros is back! And the dragon aspects are important...ish? Also we solve the entire situation through time travel.
    WoD: Let's visit Draenor, through time/dimension/something travel, spend the entire time fighting the evil Orcs there only for their leader to declare independence from... Whom? They rejected Mannoroth in the trailer...
    BfA: Teldrassil burns, but it's not Sylvannas' fault. Sike, gotcha, totally her fault. But she is morally grey. Sike, gotcha again! Expectations subverted. Ah, the Alliance could win the war after conquering Dazaralor. But that would be evil. Not that it would prevent future bloodbaths... Better idea: sent the entire Alliance fleet after one ship. That could not posssibly be a trap. Oh, it was a trap! Curse you Sylvanas. Oh, and she is working with Queen Azshara for Nzoth. Oh, Queen Azshara turns on Nzoth the second he emerges. And Sylvanas gets kicked out of the Horde for having a tantrum, which makes all their warcrimes forgettable... Also Wrathion is there for some reason.
    SL: Sylvie abducts Anduin and a few unimportant side characters, but is nice enough to show us the way to save them, instead of just waiting until her Master (which was also the master of her sworn enemy) is ready to attack. But, they get too keep Anduin which promtly gets mindcontrolled and is now able to wield a sword that extracts sigils. Why is he needed? Noone knows. Well, Thanos gets his 5 infinity stones and the second he's victorious Sylvie realizes, that the soul destroying, mind controlling, torture towers building, chain wielding master of domination magic might not be the good guy and especially not her partner. So what does she do? Play along and wait for an opportune moment to spoil his plans? No, she shoots an arrow at him, doing exactly zero damage...

    Yeah, in comparison Legions story is pretty good.

  17. #77
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Cata, MoP and WoD were the "Garrosh arc". MoP in particular was the foundation for most new WoW characters we have now. Jaina, Anduin, Wrathion, Baine... All those characters (and probably much more, I just picked the first that came to mind) were set up in MoP. Jaina existed before, yes, but had hardly any relevance.
    They were all Garrosh arcs but were all interlinked loosely. Cata had plots on Deathwing and the Old Ones. MoP had plots about the Sha's and the Klaxxi, WoD was about the Iron Horde and then changed to the Legion because no one wanted to fight Garrosh again. Legion was the first which had an actual plot that stayed relevant right the way through. BFA followed on, SL again has (so far) had a relevant plot about the Jailer and stopping him.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Look; you don’t need a fortune teller to see where the story is going. Having Sylvanas just decide “actually the Jailer IS evil, sorry y’all”, that was genuinely one of the most cringe-inducing videos I could imagine.

    Like... we know Blizzard has talented writers. How the fuck does a cutscene like that even happen? How many people had to green light every step of the process for that stupid cutscene become reality?

    This is like Diablo 3 (vanilla)’s story all over again. The “greatest tactician in Hell” giving you constant updates on his plans, the “Lord of Lies” is so obviously communicating to you the whole time in Act 2.

    Did Blizzard just forget that a lot of their fans are adults now, and that we appreciate a little bit of nuance or moral ambiguity?
    Blizzard's literally been telling you guys that Sylvanas "isn't actually evil" for years now, not sure what y'all were expecting lol

  19. #79
    Zone story, as in smaller storylines contained in a patch or so, have always been better to me than the main story. Yes, even during WOTLK. Remember Arthas showing up like a goddamned saturday cartoon villain? Pepperidge farm remembers...

    I wonder why that is. Why can smaller storylines be so much more engaging than the one supposedly carrying the game forward? Weird as hell.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by jcf190 View Post
    This is my opinion as well. Wow's story telling has always been cheesy, campy and very predictable. To me that was part of it's appeal. Why is it a big issue now? What was the straw that broke the camel's back in this particular instance?
    I'm not sure if wiping away genocide really fits the definition of "campy" or "cheesy."

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