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  1. #41
    Pit Lord D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    The Republicans are fascists. While nothing is ever simple, it's almost simple here where the majority white are afraid of losing power. So now they somehow justify voting as a privilege since well the first voting was super majority white men in the US.

    I just have found this overall stupid that you truly had the power for lets say past 250 years plus and you just can't allow our country to change. Simply put "the Browning of America". My simple explanation is they fucked over the minority for the 250 plus years and likely know that its coming to them. Do two wrongs make a right? No.
    They ASSUME its coming, even though its not, or as a black woman once famously put it, "They are lucky we just want equality and not revenge."
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  2. #42
    Stood in the Fire tehdang's Avatar
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    It’s encouraging that 95% of both parties are united on legally qualified people that want to vote being able to cast a ballot.

    No real breakdown on the “fundamental right” bit. Felons voting? Some poisoning of the debate based on what voting measures are called anti-democratic these days? And “comes with responsibilities” captures people that think you’re responsible for showing up on Election Day unless you have a valid excuse, or postmarking a mail-in ballot before a certain date ahead of the election.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  3. #43
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    It’s encouraging that 95% of both parties are united on legally qualified people that want to vote being able to cast a ballot.
    The problem is that Republicans want to restrict "legal qualification" to "people that vote for them". Which you're well aware of but continue to pretend isn't the case, speaking of poisoning the debate.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  4. #44
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    It’s encouraging that 95% of both parties are united on legally qualified people that want to vote being able to cast a ballot.

    No real breakdown on the “fundamental right” bit. Felons voting? Some poisoning of the debate based on what voting measures are called anti-democratic these days? And “comes with responsibilities” captures people that think you’re responsible for showing up on Election Day unless you have a valid excuse, or postmarking a mail-in ballot before a certain date ahead of the election.
    There really isn't any good arguments that would justify limiting the franchise, if you're gonna claim to be based on democratic principles. A limited franchise leads you into oligarchy territory.

    Generally, the only times the franchise is limited is when A> there is gross discrimination that dehumanizes those who are denied the vote, or B> you don't believe you can win fairly so you try and disenfranchise groups who mostly vote for your opponents. A or B. Take your pick.


  5. #45
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    I don't know if you ever called yourself a libertarian but you are most certainly an anarchist.
    No he is no way shape or form an anarchist. He's in favor of the grossest hierarchy and dominion ever conceived.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    No he is no way shape or form an anarchist. He's in favor of the grossest hierarchy and dominion ever conceived.
    I know what he actually is but you aren't allowed to call people that. Also I kind of got my terms mixed up and defaulted to that.

  7. #47
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    No he is no way shape or form an anarchist. He's in favor of the grossest hierarchy and dominion ever conceived.
    He is a contrarian, is what he is. He takes the most ridiculous and least supported positions he can think of, and argues in favor of it. If an argument came over whether fire is hot or not, he'd be the one to argue that it's not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  8. #48
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There really isn't any good arguments that would justify limiting the franchise, if you're gonna claim to be based on democratic principles. A limited franchise leads you into oligarchy territory.
    Since PC2 brought up children and apparantly babies..

    There may be people who are incapable of forming an oppinion, people who if given the right to vote would by virtue of their situation and not their choices simply gove their vote away (or have their vote taken away more precisely) so others could have effectively more votes.. babies spring to mind, if they voted their vote would probably, in most cases, be an extra vote made by a parent

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Felons voting?
    I wonder what people think felons are going to vote for that's so dangerous to society. You think they'll be able to vote themselves out of prison, or vote to have their records expunged? Good luck with that.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    I wonder what people think felons are going to vote for that's so dangerous to society. You think they'll be able to vote themselves out of prison, or vote to have their records expunged? Good luck with that.
    And also: if you think felons voting is going to have a noticeable effect on the election...maybe we should worry more about why there are so many felons.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  11. #51
    I'd say this is a debate as old as democracy, resulting in the many many shades of democracy found across the World today.

    Historically my country has clearly been on the privilege perspective, and funnily enough, not too long ago I had to use that very same word to describe our difficult path to citizenship to a neighbor, who arrived from Latin America with his Swiss wife a few years ago.

    This is in no small part due to the fact that voting rights came with corresponding heavy duties, one having to be part of our militia-based army for most of adult life, if not into old age the higher you ranked. Decades of peace and the fall of the Berlin Wall severely eroded those facts, first with women being granted the right to vote in the 70s, then our armed forces shrinking from a Cold War 700k to the current 120k (for a population of 8M). Nowadays 20% of men are deemed unfit for any service, only about a third serving in the army, as a growing proportion opt for a form of substitute civil service. Interestingly it is being discussed to extend service obligations to women (an initiative of center-right parties).

    As for lowering further voting age, it is an old debate, understandably confronted with the fact that youth tend to be prime targets for both extremes of the political spectrum.
    "Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outwards, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang on Essays on Mind and Matter

  12. #52
    Voting is a right and a duty for any citizen. Change my mind.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    He is a contrarian, is what he is. He takes the most ridiculous and least supported positions he can think of, and argues in favor of it. If an argument came over whether fire is hot or not, he'd be the one to argue that it's not.
    He'd go like "you can't predict the fire is hot and burns your hand based on experience from the past where fire burned your other hand"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Voting is a right and a duty for any citizen. Change my mind.
    Not listed as duties of a citizen. Change my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    He'd go like "you can't predict the fire is hot and burns your hand based on experience from the past where fire burned your other hand"

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not listed as duties of a citizen. Change my mind.
    It is not listed in some country but it should be. And I would like to remind people that quite a few people died in most country to get all citizen the right to vote. Voting is more or less a way to honor their sacrifice.

  15. #55
    Pandaren Monk Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Not listed as duties of a citizen. Change my mind.
    People who can't be bothered to vote never deserved such right in the first place
    Lives matter

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Felons voting?
    That's poisoning the well. Every time that issue comes up people talk of pedophiles, murderers, terrorists and whatnot.

    Most felonies are shit like DUIs, possession charges (this is where racism comes into play too, as minorities are much more likely to be charged and convincted for possession than white people, despite of the fact that statistically the likelihood of being a user is statistically identical), people who smoked a joint or whatnot shouldn't have their voting rights restricted.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    People who can't be bothered to vote never deserved such right in the first place
    That argument automatically fails to hold any value once you realize that

    1. People have jobs and other obligations and in the US voting day is not a holiday or even a weekend day.
    2. Access to voting is restricted via things like few polling stations at remote locations, requirement for pre-registration instead of automatic eligibility and by restrictions on alternative means of voting.

    So yeah. Your arguments are dumb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  17. #57
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    2. Access to voting is restricted via things like few polling stations at remote locations, requirement for pre-registration instead of automatic eligibility and by restrictions on alternative means of voting.
    It should be noted that efforts to address this are almost always 100% opposed by Republicans.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #58
    Pandaren Monk Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    That argument automatically fails to hold any value once you realize that

    1. People have jobs and other obligations and in the US voting day is not a holiday or even a weekend day.
    2. Access to voting is restricted via things like few polling stations at remote locations, requirement for pre-registration instead of automatic eligibility and by restrictions on alternative means of voting.

    So yeah. Your arguments are dumb.
    No. It's just the us voting system is archaic and ultimately dumb. Any valid argument fails within a broken system like this
    Last edited by Yadryonych; 2021-07-23 at 12:07 PM.
    Lives matter

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    I wonder what people think felons are going to vote for that's so dangerous to society. You think they'll be able to vote themselves out of prison, or vote to have their records expunged? Good luck with that.
    People are stupid. They feel good knowing they can vote but other people can't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    No. It's just the us voting system is archaic and ultimately dumb. Any valueable argument fails within a broken system like this
    Except that's not what you said. So don't try to backpedal.

  20. #60
    Pandaren Monk Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    Except that's not what you said. So don't try to backpedal.
    Except you should probably stop talking to strawman in your head and read what people say. But that's just you flaming
    Lives matter

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