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  1. #81
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Explain how closing polling places is making sure only eligible voters are voting.
    The less votes there are, the less chance there is for there to be any kind of fraud! Next up, the big brain move is to not have anyone vote at all. Can't have ineligible votes then, now can you?

    It's just strongmen duking it out in a thunderdome. Last man standing = president.
    Last edited by Santti; 2021-07-23 at 03:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    It's just strongmen duking it out in a thunderdome. Last man standing = president.
    I, for one, welcome President Dwayne the Rock Johnson?

    Quote Originally Posted by bladeXcrasher View Post
    So does this mean they conceed that gun ownership is not a right but a privilege?
    No; according to Republicans, guns are more essential than voting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Right-to-work legislation. They can fire you for taking time off to vote.
    Side note: I believe the term you mean is "At Will Employment" not "Right-to-work." Both are problematic, of course, but they're different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And it's never taken me more than about 20 minutes to vote in my life, in a whole bunch of different cities, because we have polling stations all over; if you live in the city, even in the suburbs, chances are there's a polling station within walking distance of you.
    *sighs exasperatedly in the general direction of Atlanta*
    Last edited by Gestopft; 2021-07-23 at 04:00 PM.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  3. #83
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Not listed as duties of a citizen. Change my mind.
    For the USA specifically; https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/...s/chapter2.pdf
    "Citizens have a responsibility to participate in the political process by registering and voting in elections."

    So yeah, it's in there.

    And for Canada, to be clear it's not just the USA; https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...tizenship.html

    Yup, listed right in there.

    Both sources are even direct government sources, so no complaining about anything there being some rando's opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    That's poisoning the well. Every time that issue comes up people talk of pedophiles, murderers, terrorists and whatnot.

    Most felonies are shit like DUIs, possession charges (this is where racism comes into play too, as minorities are much more likely to be charged and convincted for possession than white people, despite of the fact that statistically the likelihood of being a user is statistically identical), people who smoked a joint or whatnot shouldn't have their voting rights restricted.
    Honestly, I don't care if serial child rapists and murderers get the vote. For one, I actually believe in representative systems and believe once you start down the path of treating the franchise like a privilege, you end up in positions like the USA. For two, there seriously aren't enough of these kinds of terrible people to actually swing and election by themselves, so where's the grounds for concern?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Some people can’t afford to take a day off. It’s basically voting or stay employed.
    This is the USA's systemic hostility to democracy. Not an argument against democracy itself.

    By comparison, I've voted in every federal election up here in Canuckistan. We don't get a day off, but employers are legally obligated to give staff enough time off to vote. And it's never taken me more than about 20 minutes to vote in my life, in a whole bunch of different cities, because we have polling stations all over; if you live in the city, even in the suburbs, chances are there's a polling station within walking distance of you. Rural stations are further apart, but generally, where there's a school, there's a polling station.


  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Democrats think voting is a fundamental right that should not be restricted and yet they're prejudiced against children and won't give them their rights. That is pure hypocrisy.
    You truly are showing your colors. You really don't know much about anything yet feel the need to comment on everything as if you know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    You mean making sure only eligible voters do vote? Because that's a nice thing to do that makes all the sense in the world. Name another country where people dont need an ID and a registration to vote, which is also not a third world shithole
    Yet of all the votes cast with expanded hours and days, more mail in voting than ever, the few cases of voter fraud that were prosecuted, were people voting illegally for Trump. With Billions of votes cast and only a few hundred cases of fraud in nearly 250 years, it is, and has been, quite easy to say in person voter fraud is statistically irrelevant.

    So pretty much 99.99999999999% of all votes have been cast by eligible voters only. So please explain why regressive policies to stop a problem that has never existed are needed?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuujin View Post
    I don't understand people like you. Do you just forget what you wrote fifteen minutes ago?
    It's all about earning those turnips. He along with the other guy are Russian propaganda trolls.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    I think there is an important distinction to be made here, which is between those who should have the privilege's to vote through the course of legal citizenry and those not legit or legally authorized to do so.

    It could be stated they are one in the same positions, but in terms of practice they aren't.


    Personally any right that can be taken away in my opinion is NOT a right it is always a privilege whether it's honestly addressed in that reality or not.
    I'm sure he would have no issues with allowing toddlers to drive, drink alcohol, and/or operate firearms.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    That is why I said "argue" as in debate. Both points are valid. So maybe we could find a middle ground between them.
    One point is horrible. The other point acknowledges that rehabilitation is important, particular classes of people get locked up unjustly and it alters demographics by removing urban residents to rural areas.

  6. #86
    I’m Dutch, and never heard anyone say our voting is obstructed or non-democratic. I believe its a very important right within our society.

    But in this poll, I would probably fall on the “there should be some requirements to voting” side. Mainly because the question asked is extremely broad in its interpretation.

    I don’t consider the republican wish for voter ID requirements to be so strange. It helps the system security a lot. The problem however, is that unlike the EU, the USA does not have a centralized ID card system.

    In the EU, every 18+ citizen gets an ID card from the government. If you cant afford the costs (about 30 euro if Memory serves) the government will provide it for you.

    So voter identification isn’t bad perse, but voter identification combined with no centralized identification system definitely is.

    Aside from the voter ID thing, excluding people from voting is a slippery slope. Disenfranchisement of convicted fellons is a difficult proposition on its own, but combine that with the USA’s incredibly high rate of incarcerations, and it becomes entirely problematic.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    I don’t consider the republican wish for voter ID requirements to be so strange. It helps the system security a lot. The problem however, is that unlike the EU, the USA does not have a centralized ID card system.

    In the EU, every 18+ citizen gets an ID card from the government. If you cant afford the costs (about 30 euro if Memory serves) the government will provide it for you.

    So voter identification isn’t bad perse, but voter identification combined with no centralized identification system definitely is.
    In general, lots of Democrats don't have a problem with voter ID -in theory, and as long as IDs are freely provided. The issues that come with the GOP voter ID pushes is what else comes with it- a particularly egregious example was in Alabama, where multiple licensing centers were being closed at the same time as new ID requirements coming. out. Or there is Texas, where your handgun license can be used to vote, but not a student ID card.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    I’m Dutch, and never heard anyone say our voting is obstructed or non-democratic. I believe its a very important right within our society.

    But in this poll, I would probably fall on the “there should be some requirements to voting” side. Mainly because the question asked is extremely broad in its interpretation.

    I don’t consider the republican wish for voter ID requirements to be so strange. It helps the system security a lot. The problem however, is that unlike the EU, the USA does not have a centralized ID card system.

    In the EU, every 18+ citizen gets an ID card from the government. If you cant afford the costs (about 30 euro if Memory serves) the government will provide it for you.

    So voter identification isn’t bad perse, but voter identification combined with no centralized identification system definitely is.

    Aside from the voter ID thing, excluding people from voting is a slippery slope. Disenfranchisement of convicted fellons is a difficult proposition on its own, but combine that with the USA’s incredibly high rate of incarcerations, and it becomes entirely problematic.
    You have to look at what they do even more than just what they say.

    When it comes to voting requirements, the GOP weaponizes it when/if they get them passed by selectively closing ID locations making it harder to get them and be selectively including valid forms of ID that minorities will most likely lack.

    In Texas, they tried to make it where your college ID isn't a valid form of ID for voting yet your gun permit is. You can also be forced to drive up to 3 counties away to get your ID with offices that have reduced opening hours making it even harder to get your ID to vote. Trying to make it where minorities and educated people are harder to vote but the countries boys can more easily.

    Then in Georgia you have only to look at the new stuff they did making the news also reminding you that in 2018 they tried to reduce polling locations from 60 down to 6 in minorities areas and even in 2020, if you were in a minority area, you could wait upwards of 11 hours in line just to vote which they now made it illegal for others to provide you food or water in that 11 hour wait time.

    Then in North Carolina, our supreme court actually threw out their voter ID requirements when they first passed them years ago because the GOP were so brazen as to conduct studies to figure out which forms of ID minorities were least likely to have to they could require them with surgical precision to attack voters.

    They even have an episode of Last Week Tonight about it where they even have politicians bragging about how they cut Obama's voter turnout in their states.

    Then you look at how prisons are abused where the prisoner's can't vote but still count towards the districts voting population where we have a few districts are 80% prison inmates just so the conservatives in that area have more power. Or in Florida were something like 15% (Can't remember the exact number but was up there) of the adult black males there couldn't vote due to having a criminal record.They had a referendum on their ballots to allow them the right to vote which passed only for the GOP to try and go around it and require that they must pay all criminal fees before they get that right and Florida is not only a huge welfare queen outright but also one that has huge costs when it comes to their courts.

    I could agree with a Voter ID law in the future, after the address these abuses of them, but as it stands, it would be abused to cut tens of millions of legal voters off the rolls because they don't vote Republican.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    You have to look at what they do even more than just what they say.

    When it comes to voting requirements, the GOP weaponizes it when/if they get them passed by selectively closing ID locations making it harder to get them and be selectively including valid forms of ID that minorities will most likely lack.

    In Texas, they tried to make it where your college ID isn't a valid form of ID for voting yet your gun permit is. You can also be forced to drive up to 3 counties away to get your ID with offices that have reduced opening hours making it even harder to get your ID to vote. Trying to make it where minorities and educated people are harder to vote but the countries boys can more easily.

    Then in Georgia you have only to look at the new stuff they did making the news also reminding you that in 2018 they tried to reduce polling locations from 60 down to 6 in minorities areas and even in 2020, if you were in a minority area, you could wait upwards of 11 hours in line just to vote which they now made it illegal for others to provide you food or water in that 11 hour wait time.

    Then in North Carolina, our supreme court actually threw out their voter ID requirements when they first passed them years ago because the GOP were so brazen as to conduct studies to figure out which forms of ID minorities were least likely to have to they could require them with surgical precision to attack voters.

    They even have an episode of Last Week Tonight about it where they even have politicians bragging about how they cut Obama's voter turnout in their states.

    Then you look at how prisons are abused where the prisoner's can't vote but still count towards the districts voting population where we have a few districts are 80% prison inmates just so the conservatives in that area have more power. Or in Florida were something like 15% (Can't remember the exact number but was up there) of the adult black males there couldn't vote due to having a criminal record.They had a referendum on their ballots to allow them the right to vote which passed only for the GOP to try and go around it and require that they must pay all criminal fees before they get that right and Florida is not only a huge welfare queen outright but also one that has huge costs when it comes to their courts.

    I could agree with a Voter ID law in the future, after the address these abuses of them, but as it stands, it would be abused to cut tens of millions of legal voters off the rolls because they don't vote Republican.
    I agree, that’s why I said voter ID only works with a centralized uniform government mandated ID, like in the civilized world.

    I also agree that the republican party intent with such restrictions differs from what the question entails. But if I were to answer the question, not the possible intent behind it, I would vote for the “some restrictions” option.

    Which is good news, actually. It means that most likely less than 42% of Americans want to burn down democracy.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ponsibilities/



    So, the anti-democracy shift for Republicans continues - 1/3 think it's a right (vs. roughly 80% of Democrats) and 2/3 think it is a "privilege which can be limited".

    And it's primarily older Republicans that hold that view.
    This poll by its own admission omits large swaths of the population. They only used self reported mono racial whites, blacks, and Asians. Biracial people make up a not insignificant proportion of the population, especially multi-racial black/white.

    Kinda curious as to why.
    Last edited by D3thray; 2021-07-23 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Typos

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    One point is horrible. The other point acknowledges that rehabilitation is important, particular classes of people get locked up unjustly and it alters demographics by removing urban residents to rural areas.
    And there goes the dialog, you can't have a discussion with zealots.

  12. #92
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    I'm sure he would have no issues with allowing toddlers to drive, drink alcohol, and/or operate firearms.
    Hahahahaha I am sure too, Hell if there is a state in the Union that will do that very thing My bet is on Florida.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    Hahahahaha I am sure too, Hell if there is a state in the Union that will do that very thing My bet is on Florida.
    Well, if you disregard age...some toddlers already do.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    This poll by its own admission omits large swaths of the population. They only used self reported mono racial whites, blacks, and Asians.
    Where do you see this? I just looked through their methodology and it makes no mention of that - https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-conte...ethodology.pdf

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    And there goes the dialog, you can't have a discussion with zealots.
    Sorry if the facts hurt your feelings. I put up three separate points and you couldn’t even be bothered to make even a single counter argument.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Sorry if the facts hurt your feelings. I put up three separate points and you couldn’t even be bothered to make even a single counter argument.
    That is the point, as I said, your points and mine were valids. But since no discussion is possible with you, good evening, we are done.

  17. #97
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    yet even more proof that right wingers are either ignorant or willfully ignorant.
    I bet that if you took their "privilege away" they would start scream they were losing their rights.

  18. #98
    Legendary! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    That is the point, as I said, your points and mine were valids. But since no discussion is possible with you, good evening, we are done.
    Bring something of merit to discuss and you’ll be treated better. It must be exhausting to have everything you say get blown out of the water by people posting actual facts.
    Blessed are the fornicates, may we bend down to be their whores. Blessed are the rich, may our labor deliver them more.
    Blessed are the envious; bless the slothful, the wrathful, the vain. Blessed are the gluttonous, may they feast us to famine and war.
    What of the pious, the pure of heart, the peaceful, the meek, the mourning, and the merciful? All doomed, all doomed

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    Bring something of merit to discuss and you’ll be treated better. It must be exhausting to have everything you say get blown out of the water by people posting actual facts.
    What are you doing here then ? Every single of your post does not bring anything, but slander or insults. Must be exhausting to hate everyone that does not think like you.

  20. #100
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    It's because republicans don't want people voting if they disagree with them. Fraud isn't a problem even though they claim that's the reason. They just want to make it easier for republicans to win.

    It's similar to their thinking on many issues. Take the current CRT nonsense. It's not even taught in grade school and the vast majority of people had never even heard of it until recently. This is because what they really want to do is pretend blacks liked being slaves, native genocides either didn't take place or were their own fault, etc... They want to teach children an alternate version of history that is completely false.

    At this point you can be certain when a republican gives you a reason for something it's a lie. They real reason is something much shittier.
    This is the fundamental issue. There is good data going back over several major elections showing that, generally speaking, the more people who turn out, the less the GOP wins. And we've seen this in blatant statements from key GOP leaders, even as recently as the 2020 election. Trump and a few others "said the quiet part" by admitting increased voter turnout means the GOP will lose (he actually went so far as to say that if voter turnout increases Republicans would never win an election again). The TX AG admitted that if he had allowed mail-in-ballot registration to be done by mail (read that again just so you get the point clearly) TX would have swung blue.

    The GQP has always been against people voting, unless you happen to be white and either rich and/or uneducated.

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