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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    Marxism never works out in favor of the common man because people fail to read or understand history. It is the free candy from dictators so that you get in their van. Using a ground up approach to indoctrinate individuals (like Endus) in an attempt to gain a mainstream acceptance is dangerous. These people have no respect for history, or reality.
    I sincerely doubt you know what Marxist socialism is. none of the people who say this crap have ever read anything about it besides what some talking head on Fox News says. you just fear the idea of working class people having any sort of leverage over their business owning overlords, change my mind.

  2. #142
    Pretty sure that "condor" is just one of those libertarian apologists.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    JD Vance takes aim at culture wars, childless politicians


    (source)

    Why not give greater votes to people with a stake in the future? Heck this would do a lot to empower PoC especially.

    Then again, does voting matter when your choices are "flavor of Neo-Liberalism" and nothing else. Voting being a right or a privilege is immaterial if you cannot practically vote for anything other than what the wealthy and powerful already wanted to do.
    What an excellent idea! Then the young should also get a bigger voice. More years to live, more future to worry about, more shares!

    Oh, and the rich, too. They have more to lose, more literal investments in society's future and continuation. Bigly votes for them as well, leggo. I'm sure we can think of more categories of truly deserving people who need to be given natural authority over their inferiors.

    Furthermore, to honor America's history as well the sort of idea you have, let's make the unworthy's votes only count for 3/5th of a superior specimen's vote. T'is only fitting after all.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  4. #144
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Why not give greater votes to people with a stake in the future?
    The fact that you think this is an argument for making your vote count more rather than extending the franchise downwards is hilarious.

    Naked self-interest is naked. What's next, arguing that rich people need more of a voice because "they're more invested in the health of society and the economy"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    What is Marxism beyond looking at the oppressed vs the unoppressed?
    You can just say you didn't pay attention at school, bruh.

    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    Marxism never works out in favor of the common man because people fail to read or understand history. It is the free candy from dictators so that you get in their van.
    Claiming that all public assistance is an authoritarian trap is as stupid as claiming that all anti-smoking legislation is bad because the Nazis also hated smoking, speaking of failing to pay attention in history.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  5. #145
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    He's not that good at articulating the point.

    I'd say only look at a childless, rich politician, and if you think they're policies are short sighted, put a little more stock in that apprehension.
    Given how they govern, it does seem like letting society be ruled by people with zero stake in the future isn't a good plan. Plus if you want to empower say minority voters, especially Hispanic and Black voters, this would be one way to help ensure marginalized voices get heard even louder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    What an excellent idea! Then the young should also get a bigger voice. More years to live, more future to worry about, more shares!

    Oh, and the rich, too. They have more to lose, more literal investments in society's future and continuation. Bigly votes for them as well, leggo. I'm sure we can think of more categories of truly deserving people who need to be given natural authority over their inferiors.

    Furthermore, to honor America's history as well the sort of idea you have, let's make the unworthy's votes only count for 3/5th of a superior specimen's vote. T'is only fitting after all.
    I mean I'm okay with a system that empowers Hispanic and Black voters to have a much stronger voice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Given how they govern, it does seem like letting society be ruled by people with zero stake in the future isn't a good plan. Plus if you want to empower say minority voters, especially Hispanic and Black voters, this would be one way to help ensure marginalized voices get heard even louder.

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    I mean I'm okay with a system that empowers Hispanic and Black voters to have a much stronger voice.
    lol this is concern trolling.

    One person, one vote. Doesn't matter if you are 18 or 80.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post

    I mean I'm okay with a system that empowers Hispanic and Black voters to have a much stronger voice.
    Then make up your mind. Do you want parents to be artificially given more power, or these two minorities in particular?

    Note that both these ideas are bad even just in principle, by the by, but at least stay consistent in your poor logic.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  8. #148
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Wonder how an ill-informed chart would look considering republican voters have a huge amount of walking imbeciles.

    How about it being a privilege that comes linked with the ability of critical thinking?

    How many GOP voters think the election was stolen - every court challenge has been struck down
    How many GOP voters think getting a Covid vaccine should be voluntarily or Covid being a hoax - compared to facts and statistics (who gets it now?)
    How many GOP voters are required to elect space laser Qanon etc. nuts - well its teeming with those in power already and getting worse
    How many GOP voters think Trump is law and order - lost count of how many that got sentenced or indicted within his close circle already
    Last edited by Bakis; 2021-07-25 at 12:36 AM.
    Fox News Media is proud of our 2020 election coverage, which stands in the highest tradition of American journalism, and we will vigorously defend against this baseless lawsuit in court," the media company said in its response.
    Equally outrageously hilarious as sad

  9. #149
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Given how they govern, it does seem like letting society be ruled by people with zero stake in the future isn't a good plan. Plus if you want to empower say minority voters, especially Hispanic and Black voters, this would be one way to help ensure marginalized voices get heard even louder.
    1> There are plenty of ways to have a "stake" in the future of society without having children. This is just a bullshit premise from the ground up, particularly as plenty of people who have kids don't give a single shit about the future, or even their kids.

    2> Families with lots of kids already get more say in how the country develops, because those kids get older, and start voting when they become adults. So you're whining about a supposed imbalance that doesn't even exist.


  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Jesus Christ.

    You literally do not understand even the very basic principles of Marxism, and yet you claim to oppose it. You have literally no idea what you're talking about.

    Just as a big hint; the majority of Marxist philosophy has absolutely nothing to do with "transforming society". If that's all you're thinking it is, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

    There's your Basics 101 introduction.

    The idea that I'm the one "indoctrinated", even though I am not a Marxist and have never claimed to be a Marxist, as opposed to you, who has clearly never read anything by any Marxist author, let alone Marx himself, but feel completely confident in claiming to understand the full swath of Marxist thinking, is frankly just funny.

    Marxism was not about dictatorships. The only way you could be drawing that ridiculous conclusion is by swallowing 70-year-old anti-Soviet propaganda without any critical thought or analysis.

    I'm a history grad. History's one of my major fields. Your issue with me, you'll find, is that I'm generally too well read for simple bullshitting about nonsense propaganda to have any effect on me whatsoever.

    You can't source any of the garbage you're posting, because you're wrong, and no reputable source would back you on any of this.
    I do understand Marxism, Endus, but you are so emotionally attached to it that you can't stand any criticism in regards to it. And that's okay. Everyone grows up differently and some happen to get misguided, happens to the best of us. Just look at what happens to the Soviet Union, Venezuela, or Nazi Germany when people got caught up into toxic ideology.

    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I sincerely doubt you know what Marxist socialism is. none of the people who say this crap have ever read anything about it besides what some talking head on Fox News says. you just fear the idea of working class people having any sort of leverage over their business owning overlords, change my mind.
    The working class never get any leverage, Venezuela is proof of what happens when you fall for false promises. As I stated earlier, until mankind's tendency to flirt with corruption ends, we will always be victims. The Marxist Struggle to achieve a Socialist's dream is the biggest scam you can fall for. Just look at China, they claim to be Communist but the people don't own the means of production, the Communist party does.
    Last edited by BronzeCondor; 2021-07-25 at 04:59 AM.

  11. #151
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    I do understand Marxism
    Which is why you're spending the entirety of your time saying other people don't understand Marxism rather than demonstrating your understanding of it.

    Kinda gauche, but okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    Just look at China, they claim to be Communist but the people don't own the means of production, the Communist party does.
    Wow it's almost as if they aren't actually communist. Shocker.
    Every heartwarming human interest story in America is like "he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine" and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you'd need to pay to prevent it from being used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    so ? Teacher is about teaching, not education.

  12. #152
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Which is why you're spending the entirety of your time saying other people don't understand Marxism rather than demonstrating your understanding of it.

    Kinda gauche, but okay.



    Wow it's almost as if they aren't actually communist. Shocker.
    Isnt the argument often that China and the ussr. Never even considered themselves communist? Instead they had a communist party which represented a goal… communism but at any particular time the country was mixed. I mean didn’t Lenin refer to the current system as literally state capitalism?
    As an aside.

    We have a Democrat party and democracy is what we strive for… we haven’t quite gotten there yet
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  13. #153
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
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    I had never even considered it wouldn't be seen as a right. That's like asking if a store should have doors.
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    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
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    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Given how they govern, it does seem like letting society be ruled by people with zero stake in the future isn't a good plan. Plus if you want to empower say minority voters, especially Hispanic and Black voters, this would be one way to help ensure marginalized voices get heard even louder.
    So here is a challenge, find the politician, that you deem to having been passing the most destructive policies with no regard for the future, and find out what the voting percentage were parents, and then compare it to the one that you deem the least destructive and most caring for the future.

    I'll bet ya there'll be virtually no difference.
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    The working class never get any leverage, Venezuela is proof of what happens when you fall for false promises. As I stated earlier, until mankind's tendency to flirt with corruption ends, we will always be victims. The Marxist Struggle to achieve a Socialist's dream is the biggest scam you can fall for. Just look at China, they claim to be Communist but the people don't own the means of production, the Communist party does.
    China engages in state capitalism... they have socialist programs sure, but they are no where near "communist" in any way shape or form. same as Venezuela except not unlike other capitalist states of old made the choice to focus on one commodity and when said commodity implodes well, shit happens. oh also US sanctions don't help. speaking of Latin America, one country that no one likes to talk about is Cuba! and how even despite over half a century of embargo's by the largest economy in the world has managed to eliminate homelessness give free health care to all it's citizens and be a leader in medical innovation, unlike.... the US.

  16. #156
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    I do understand Marxism, Endus, but you are so emotionally attached to it that you can't stand any criticism in regards to it.
    I have no "emotional attachment" to Marxism. Willful ignorance and rank dishonesty offend me, however, and that's all you've provided. You're lying about basic shit, seemingly just to push people's buttons.


  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I have no "emotional attachment" to Marxism. Willful ignorance and rank dishonesty offend me, however, and that's all you've provided. You're lying about basic shit, seemingly just to push people's buttons.
    Marxism comes from a school of thought that emphasizes the Oppressed vs Unoppressed. That isn't willful ignorance or rank dishonesty, it's the truth. That's why it appeals to so many people. It creates a struggle and pits A vs B. Why do you think CRT is appealing to so many? Because its the victor that gets to write history, the story of the oppressed isn't told.

    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    China engages in state capitalism... they have socialist programs sure, but they are no where near "communist" in any way shape or form. same as Venezuela except not unlike other capitalist states of old made the choice to focus on one commodity and when said commodity implodes well, shit happens. oh also US sanctions don't help. speaking of Latin America, one country that no one likes to talk about is Cuba! and how even despite over half a century of embargo's by the largest economy in the world has managed to eliminate homelessness give free health care to all it's citizens and be a leader in medical innovation, unlike.... the US.
    Cuba isn't a success story. Aren't there mass protests going on in Florida/Cuba about this?

  18. #158
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    Marxism comes from a school of thought that emphasizes the Oppressed vs Unoppressed. That isn't willful ignorance or rank dishonesty, it's the truth. That's why it appeals to so many people. It creates a struggle and pits A vs B.
    See? This, right here, is a lie.

    It recognizes an existing struggle where A is already actively oppressing B. There was no "pitting" of A versus B. That class struggle already existed. Marxism was about casting that class struggle away.

    Which was by no means a unique idea to Marxism, either. Another thing you get wrong.

    Why do you think CRT is appealing to so many? Because its the victor that gets to write history, the story of the oppressed isn't told.
    That's . . . not what CRT is about.

    You're pushing disinformation. Stop listening to people like Tucker Carlson; they're idiots and liars.

    Cuba isn't a success story. Aren't there mass protests going on in Florida/Cuba about this?
    Cuba is an incredibly poor country, due to the continued embargo by the USA, for decades. Given that poverty, it's amazing what they have managed to achieve.

    People protesting in Cuba aren't protesting because of their health care standards. Noting some things Cuba's managed to achieve is not a statement that Cuba's policies on everything are laudable.


  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post

    Cuba isn't a success story. Aren't there mass protests going on in Florida/Cuba about this?
    loooool did you not read the part where it has been under crushing US embargo's and sanctions for the last half century? and even still managed to do more for the average Cuban citizen than the US ever has for theirs? and those protests? maybe if again, the US got the fuck over it's petty little tiff with a country exercising it's right to self govern and lift the sanctions chances are there wouldn't be protests for you know, things that are being deliberately withheld from them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    People protesting in Cuba aren't protesting because of their health care standards. Noting some things Cuba's managed to achieve is not a statement that Cuba's policies on everything are laudable.
    certainly not, but it is a scathing indictment that US foreign policy does more to harm the average citizen of any given country than it does to help.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2021-07-25 at 06:36 PM.

  20. #160
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    We tie the ability to vote to the ability to give consent which in turn is relevant for the ability to enter contracts etc. We call that "The Age of Reasoning".
    So if a minor takes a civic/reasoning test and scores as high as the typical adult or 18 year old then would you let them vote? I personally don't think a reasoning test is necessary but I'm also 100% okay with saying that their voting right should be based on their level of comprehension/merit. Having more options is always good.
    Note, if we would do that Texas would be a blue state tomorrow. So, sure. Let's do it.
    Okay, that part doesn't really matter because there will always be new issues and new changes that mess up statistical correlations and trends in politics. Also even if a new group of people is enfranchised and they heavily lean one way on the political spectrum it would cause centrists to shift a bit in the other direction in order to stabilize politics in a democracy.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-07-26 at 01:04 AM.
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