Wide partisan divide on whether voting is a right or a privilege

[Yuujin]

People who can't be bothered to vote never deserved such right in the first place

No. It's just the us voting system is archaic and ultimately dumb. Any valid argument fails within a broken system like this

Except that's not what you said. So don't try to backpedal.

Except you should probably stop talking to strawman in your head and read what people say. But that's just you flaming

I don't understand people like you. Do you just forget what you wrote fifteen minutes ago?

[Specialka]

That's poisoning the well. Every time that issue comes up people talk of pedophiles, murderers, terrorists and whatnot.

Most felonies are shit like DUIs, possession charges (this is where racism comes into play too, as minorities are much more likely to be charged and convincted for possession than white people, despite of the fact that statistically the likelihood of being a user is statistically identical), people who smoked a joint or whatnot shouldn't have their voting rights restricted.

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That argument automatically fails to hold any value once you realize that

1. People have jobs and other obligations and in the US voting day is not a holiday or even a weekend day.
2. Access to voting is restricted via things like few polling stations at remote locations, requirement for pre-registration instead of automatic eligibility and by restrictions on alternative means of voting.

So yeah. Your arguments are dumb.

And obviously not voting you can't be hassle to take a day off and then letting the Republican be elected then blaming it on the system

[Specialka]

I wonder what people think felons are going to vote for that's so dangerous to society. You think they'll be able to vote themselves out of prison, or vote to have their records expunged? Good luck with that.

One could argue that being convicted means you lose your right as a citizen until you have done your time in jail.

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Some people can’t afford to take a day off. It’s basically voting or stay employed.

Obviously, it should be changed. In my country, voting day is always sunday and you can also allow someone else to vote for you once you have declared him at the police station.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Their fundamental right to vote... Citizens are equal but society doesn't want to give everyone the right to vote.

For Republicans I can understand their reasoning because they think voting is a privilege to be earned, even though I disagree with their position.

I think there is an important distinction to be made here, which is between those who should have the privilege's to vote through the course of legal citizenry and those not legit or legally authorized to do so.

It could be stated they are one in the same positions, but in terms of practice they aren't.


Personally any right that can be taken away in my opinion is NOT a right it is always a privilege whether it's honestly addressed in that reality or not.

[bladeXcrasher]

So does this mean they conceed that gun ownership is not a right but a privilege?

[Doctor Amadeus]

So does this mean they conceed that gun ownership is not a right but a privilege?

If we are talking about whether you have something that is your right, it isn't.

[Glorious Leader]

Personally any right that can be taken away in my opinion is NOT a right it is always a privilege whether it's honestly addressed in that reality or not.

Thats silly. Its also dangerous. All rights can be taken away. None of this is actual natural law so maybe ought to accept the reality that rights flow from political authority and political authority is given by the consent of the governed. Well at least theoretically in a democracy.

[Specialka]

There are states where felons can’t vote after they’ve been released. Are you walking back your claim that people who don’t vote should lose the right to vote? How about mocking them for being pissed when Republicans get elected because they literally suppress the vote to ensure that it happens?

And I am pretty sure that this mindset is the issue (we can't vote because ...), but you do you.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Thats silly. Its also dangerous. All rights can be taken away. None of this is actual natural law so maybe ought to accept the reality that rights flow from political authority and political authority is given by the consent of the governed. Well at least theoretically in a democracy.

No it's not silly it's reality. You can try to intellectually jerk yourself off about it but the truth is if it's a right I have, there isn't anything to discuss concerning conditions.

I have to eat, I have to evacuate my biological matter, those are rights god given rights, and you can't take them, if you do then there is no point in a discussion because I wouldn't be alive to contest.

The founding fathers were very smart and arguably evil men, but they also sold a lot of bullshit.


A RIGHT is a RIGHT it can't be taken from you. We can either observe those rights, OR we become Germany 1940's

[Glorious Leader]

A RIGHT is a RIGHT it can't be taken from you. We can either observe those rights, OR we become Germany 1940's

Of course it can. Its not immutable, its not gravity. Its incredible naive to take this view. Its also dangerous because instead of acknowledging that rights are constructs of the political process you get this quasi religious bullshit worship of them.

[Ivanstone]

And obviously not voting you can't be hassle to take a day off and then letting the Republican be elected then blaming it on the system

Right-to-work legislation. They can fire you for taking time off to vote.

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One could argue that being convicted means you lose your right as a citizen until you have done your time in jail.

The criminal justice system is supposed to rehabilitate prisoners. One way you rehabilitate them is having them participate in democracy.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Of course it can. Its not immutable, its not gravity. Its incredible naive to take this view. Its also dangerous because instead of acknowledging that rights are constructs of the political process you get this quasi religious bullshit worship of them.

Well it is you seem to be confused, a right is not something you can control or seek to, that is the point. There are things YOU NEED to LIVE period whether they are by physical means or psychological. Is is a LIE to pretend otherwise which has more to do with authority than anything else.

We Feed Prisoners because they NEED those things it is a RIGHT!

We Feed Soldiers Because they NEED FOOD it is their right, if we don't they DIE simple as that.


They do NOT have the Rights to freedom of Speech, You can live without it, and the great many idiots we have going around, most would live a lot better off without it.

[Specialka]

Right-to-work legislation. They can fire you for taking time off to vote.

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The criminal justice system is supposed to rehabilitate prisoners. One way you rehabilitate them is having them participate in democracy.

That is why I said "argue" as in debate. Both points are valid. So maybe we could find a middle ground between them.

[Azadina]

People who can't be bothered to vote never deserved such right in the first place

Quite a statement for komrade komissar coming from Russia, where voting is just as useful as it is in North Korea.

[Yadryonych]

No, it’s not a mindset. It’s actual barriers that exist with more being erected in dozens of states.

You mean making sure only eligible voters do vote? Because that's a nice thing to do that makes all the sense in the world. Name another country where people dont need an ID and a registration to vote, which is also not a third world shithole

[Santti]

Explain how closing polling places is making sure only eligible voters are voting.

The less votes there are, the less chance there is for there to be any kind of fraud! Next up, the big brain move is to not have anyone vote at all. Can't have ineligible votes then, now can you?

It's just strongmen duking it out in a thunderdome. Last man standing = president.

[Gestopft]

It's just strongmen duking it out in a thunderdome. Last man standing = president.

I, for one, welcome President Dwayne the Rock Johnson?

So does this mean they conceed that gun ownership is not a right but a privilege?

No; according to Republicans, guns are more essential than voting.

Right-to-work legislation. They can fire you for taking time off to vote.

Side note: I believe the term you mean is "At Will Employment" not "Right-to-work." Both are problematic, of course, but they're different things.

And it's never taken me more than about 20 minutes to vote in my life, in a whole bunch of different cities, because we have polling stations all over; if you live in the city, even in the suburbs, chances are there's a polling station within walking distance of you.

*sighs exasperatedly in the general direction of Atlanta*

[Endus]

Not listed as duties of a citizen. Change my mind.

For the USA specifically; https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/...s/chapter2.pdf
"Citizens have a responsibility to participate in the political process by registering and voting in elections."

So yeah, it's in there.

And for Canada, to be clear it's not just the USA; https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...tizenship.html

Yup, listed right in there.

Both sources are even direct government sources, so no complaining about anything there being some rando's opinion.

That's poisoning the well. Every time that issue comes up people talk of pedophiles, murderers, terrorists and whatnot.

Most felonies are shit like DUIs, possession charges (this is where racism comes into play too, as minorities are much more likely to be charged and convincted for possession than white people, despite of the fact that statistically the likelihood of being a user is statistically identical), people who smoked a joint or whatnot shouldn't have their voting rights restricted.

Honestly, I don't care if serial child rapists and murderers get the vote. For one, I actually believe in representative systems and believe once you start down the path of treating the franchise like a privilege, you end up in positions like the USA. For two, there seriously aren't enough of these kinds of terrible people to actually swing and election by themselves, so where's the grounds for concern?

Some people can’t afford to take a day off. It’s basically voting or stay employed.

This is the USA's systemic hostility to democracy. Not an argument against democracy itself.

By comparison, I've voted in every federal election up here in Canuckistan. We don't get a day off, but employers are legally obligated to give staff enough time off to vote. And it's never taken me more than about 20 minutes to vote in my life, in a whole bunch of different cities, because we have polling stations all over; if you live in the city, even in the suburbs, chances are there's a polling station within walking distance of you. Rural stations are further apart, but generally, where there's a school, there's a polling station.

[Beefhammer]

Democrats think voting is a fundamental right that should not be restricted and yet they're prejudiced against children and won't give them their rights. That is pure hypocrisy.

You truly are showing your colors. You really don't know much about anything yet feel the need to comment on everything as if you know.

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You mean making sure only eligible voters do vote? Because that's a nice thing to do that makes all the sense in the world. Name another country where people dont need an ID and a registration to vote, which is also not a third world shithole

Yet of all the votes cast with expanded hours and days, more mail in voting than ever, the few cases of voter fraud that were prosecuted, were people voting illegally for Trump. With Billions of votes cast and only a few hundred cases of fraud in nearly 250 years, it is, and has been, quite easy to say in person voter fraud is statistically irrelevant.

So pretty much 99.99999999999% of all votes have been cast by eligible voters only. So please explain why regressive policies to stop a problem that has never existed are needed?

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I don't understand people like you. Do you just forget what you wrote fifteen minutes ago?

It's all about earning those turnips. He along with the other guy are Russian propaganda trolls.

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I think there is an important distinction to be made here, which is between those who should have the privilege's to vote through the course of legal citizenry and those not legit or legally authorized to do so.

It could be stated they are one in the same positions, but in terms of practice they aren't.


Personally any right that can be taken away in my opinion is NOT a right it is always a privilege whether it's honestly addressed in that reality or not.

I'm sure he would have no issues with allowing toddlers to drive, drink alcohol, and/or operate firearms.

[Ivanstone]

That is why I said "argue" as in debate. Both points are valid. So maybe we could find a middle ground between them.

One point is horrible. The other point acknowledges that rehabilitation is important, particular classes of people get locked up unjustly and it alters demographics by removing urban residents to rural areas.