Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    It's already long established that Frostmourne took Arthas' soul the moment he touched it, and that the blade took away his positive traits and capacity for empathy and regret.
    You seem to be under the assumption that 'long established lore' actually means anything anymore to the current team of writers.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    Actually that soul fragment was still within the blade during Legion, when the Frost DK went to reforge it into the Blades of the Fallen Prince and it spoke to you in certain specific places throughout the xpac.
    that was an echo, you are confusing things.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Arthas didn't have the power to order him to leave uther said so him self and if arthas attacked him he'd be doing his paladinly duty in subduing him when he wasn't in the right state of mind. Uther actions come across as nothing but him fleeing for a title he could have stayed and seen if arthas was right he could have tried to help in any way he could he could have tried to stop arthas, instead he went to the king because he was worried he no longer has a title next to his name,

    I disagree on this part, as leader of Silver hand Uther should have the authority to stop Arthas at stratholme but he did not, the reason was that outside Silver Hand, Arthas as prince and future king out rank Uther, that's the reason why Uther didn't simply arrest Arthas, he simply did not have the authority nor the power to do that the moment Arthas used, 'im the prince and future king' card

  4. #44
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    5,437
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    In his rush to excuse the beloved waifu, Danuser just excused Arthas. Don't expect to see that because it would require consistency.
    Second reply and we already have a shill mentioning Danuser. Love it.
    Hi

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Yes, you can meet him and do flashback quest for the 'good' part of Arthas way back in Wrath. This stupid soul split plotline is transparently based on this, down to the same writer (Golden) having written both the first good/bad Arthas soul separation in her book and now being a part of the team doing this story. Back then though the game recognized that it didn't absolve Arthas, especially as in the book he personally stabbed that part of himself so he could be sole Lich King.
    But now it DOES absolves him! Ah, the joy of justification…

    Now all we need is his soul, reformed and meeting Sylvanas as she forgives him for everything and says how she holds no grudges for Silvermoon. Oh and on behalf of all forsaken too. All is water under the bridge now.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Second reply and we already have a shill mentioning Danuser. Love it.
    Please do explain to me in what universe my comment could be construed as shilling for Blizzard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    But now it DOES absolves him! Ah, the joy of justification…

    Now all we need is his soul, reformed and meeting Sylvanas as she forgives him for everything and says how she holds no grudges for Silvermoon. Oh and on behalf of all forsaken too. All is water under the bridge now.
    They'll be quipping and offering dailies by 9.2, don't you worry. Why do you think Uther's story in 9.1 is about how he should show more compassion for Arthas after he killed everyone Uther'd ever met? An Arthas redemption has been set from Day 1 when they revealed he was a good boy who only ended up in the Maw because Uther dropped him there, the only question was if Afrasiabi was still in charge, as if he was we wouldn't be getting the Sylvanas one to go with it.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    They'll be quipping and offering dailies by 9.2, don't you worry. Why do you think Uther's story in 9.1 is about how he should show more compassion for Arthas after he killed everyone Uther'd ever met? An Arthas redemption has been set from Day 1 when they revealed he was a good boy who only ended up in the Maw because Uther dropped him there, the only question was if Afrasiabi was still in charge, as if he was we wouldn't be getting the Sylvanas one to go with it.
    Sylvanas one is there because Danuser will bawl, shriek and crawl around Blizz office if they so much suggest axing her.

    Plus i bet he also threatens to “leak” some more dirt about Blizzard “inner policies” if they try and sink his waifu.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Sylvanas one is there because Danuser will bawl, shriek and crawl around Blizz office if they so much suggest axing her.

    Plus i bet he also threatens to “leak” some more dirt about Blizzard “inner policies” if they try and sink his waifu.
    Oh, Sylvanas's lolredemption was definitely the result of Danuser taking over for Afrasiabi. You only need to compare the earlier versions of Shadowlands where she sounds like her BFA version giving vague threats in a smarmy voice to her live version where she's exchanging motive rants and being sad with Anduin.

    Redeeming either is crap and defeats the point of the character. Redeeming Arthas will always be worse, but it hardly matters, since we'll be getting both.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Oh, Sylvanas's lolredemption was definitely the result of Danuser taking over for Afrasiabi. You only need to compare the earlier versions of Shadowlands where she sounds like her BFA version giving vague threats in a smarmy voice to her live version where she's exchanging motive rants and being sad with Anduin.

    Redeeming either is crap and defeats the point of the character. Redeeming Arthas will always be worse, but it hardly matters, since we'll be getting both.
    Also cant wait for them to smear and demonize Tyrande for not being nice to “whole” Sylvanas and not buying it.

    And even funnier how Thrall essentially managed to negotiate peace between night elfs and Horde (lol) at a cost of “sylvanas head” and now we not getting even that.

    First it was “wait for your revenge against the horde” then “wait for your revenge against bad part of the horde” then “wait for your revenge against Sylvanas” then “wait until Horde gets “revenge” against Sylvanas” and now its literally nothing. Wait was TOTALLY “worth it”!

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Also cant wait for them to smear and demonize Tyrande for not being nice to “whole” Sylvanas and not buying it.

    And even funnier how Thrall essentially managed to negotiate peace between night elfs and Horde (lol) at a cost of “sylvanas head” and now we not getting even that.

    First it was “wait for your revenge against the horde” then “wait for your revenge against bad part of the horde” then “wait for your revenge against Sylvanas” then “wait until Horde gets “revenge” against Sylvanas” and now its literally nothing. Wait was TOTALLY “worth it”!
    She won't be demonized about it because she's already been neutered or will be in about two weeks when she realizes that the person who torched her home city to feed Satan actually wasn't responsible for her actions and is a-okay and focuses on 'rebuilding'. Her conversion to Anduinism precedes Sylvanas's.

    It's dimly possible they make a night elf strawman the way the blood elves got a strawman being mad about Jaina who Jaina got to beat up.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    She won't be demonized about it because she's already been neutered or will be in about two weeks when she realizes that the person who torched her home city to feed Satan actually wasn't responsible for her actions and is a-okay and focuses on 'rebuilding'. Her conversion to Anduinism precedes Sylvanas's.
    I always wondered - “rebuilding” for what? Just so Horde had something to break next time they invade?

    And yeah, its no wonder FF14 now has the same amount of subscribers as WoW. Pissing at your fanbase like that and then calling it liquid gold is a recipe for disaster. Making someone unsub after ten years of fanboyism and also to quit playing or buying other Blizz games takes some “talent” on devs side.

  13. #53
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    17,481
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    I disagree on this part, as leader of Silver hand Uther should have the authority to stop Arthas at stratholme but he did not, the reason was that outside Silver Hand, Arthas as prince and future king out rank Uther, that's the reason why Uther didn't simply arrest Arthas, he simply did not have the authority nor the power to do that the moment Arthas used, 'im the prince and future king' card
    Prince is a pretty powerless ranking when it comes to stuff like this arthas could push around peasants or commoners but against high ranking commanders and nobles he’d have no power over uther unless the king gave him such which we know he didn’t.

    Sure he could do something In the future when he’s king but as uther said he’s not king yet so he could have acted.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kauko View Post
    Where did I say you dont?
    You said his soul was split before the sword and to read the books because he was a depressed kid

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    I always wondered - “rebuilding” for what? Just so Horde had something to break next time they invade?

    And yeah, its no wonder FF14 now has the same amount of subscribers as WoW. Pissing at your fanbase like that and then calling it liquid gold is a recipe for disaster. Making someone unsub after ten years of fanboyism and also to quit playing or buying other Blizz games takes some “talent” on devs side.
    Actually SWToR has double the paying players of WoW and ff14

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Actually SWToR has double the paying players of WoW and ff14
    Hello Kitty Island Adventure going under in 2017 was just a ruse to conceal that it was running all three plus GW2 and ESO.

    On topic and also regarding Arthas, with the benefit of hindsight and retcons we can assume that the Jailer was a sliver in somebody's eye in Legion given the Memory of Arthas comments, which we can now relate to the Maw's army and to the Jailer being in the hat respectively:

    Memory of Arthas whispers: See the spirits writhe and twist...
    Memory of Arthas whispers: The numberless shades forsaken by time.
    Memory of Arthas whispers: The dead outnumber the living, and always will.
    Memory of Arthas whispers: You believe that you are in control, that your will is your own...
    Memory of Arthas whispers: Yet you do as He commands.
    Memory of Arthas whispers: You exist by His whim alone.
    Memory of Arthas whispers: You imagine yourself to be free, but you will always be His instrument...
    Memory of Arthas whispers: The infinite darkness is patient. We will all be claimed in the end.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-07-24 at 08:07 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  16. #56
    Arthas was not stabbed or attacked by Frostmourne.

    He simply wielded it, and it took his soul. It did not rend, sever, or break his soul whatsoever - It simply took it. The whole thing.

    Uther was stabbed by Frostmourne, and this is what sundered his soul. (Either that or the Light did, but given that Sylvanas ALSO had her soul severed, I doubt it was the Light.)
    Sylvanas... MAY have been stabbed. We have conflicting stories, but the idea is, Sylvanas was killed by Frostmourne, and thus the blade sundered her soul.

    The bigger question I have is, Terenas should have two versions of himself. The one which went to the Afterlife, and the other, which was stored in Frostmoune until the blade was shattered. King Terenas should therefore have a split soul like Uther and Sylvanas.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Prince is a pretty powerless ranking when it comes to stuff like this arthas could push around peasants or commoners but against high ranking commanders and nobles he’d have no power over uther unless the king gave him such which we know he didn’t.

    Sure he could do something In the future when he’s king but as uther said he’s not king yet so he could have acted.
    The Kingdom of Lordaeron was a monarchy, except the king, Arthas was direct superior to anyone in that kingdom, not only peasants, follow your logic Uther could have simple arest Arthas and laugh his threats, he was not a green comander he was the freaking OG paladin and Commander of Silver hand

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Arthas was not stabbed or attacked by Frostmourne.

    He simply wielded it, and it took his soul. It did not rend, sever, or break his soul whatsoever - It simply took it. The whole thing.

    Uther was stabbed by Frostmourne, and this is what sundered his soul. (Either that or the Light did, but given that Sylvanas ALSO had her soul severed, I doubt it was the Light.)
    Sylvanas... MAY have been stabbed. We have conflicting stories, but the idea is, Sylvanas was killed by Frostmourne, and thus the blade sundered her soul.

    The bigger question I have is, Terenas should have two versions of himself. The one which went to the Afterlife, and the other, which was stored in Frostmoune until the blade was shattered. King Terenas should therefore have a split soul like Uther and Sylvanas.
    The latest Bolvar short story does specifically state that it takes constant willpower to defy the Jailer, and Arthas' likely have in immediately given he took the blade to gain power, as opposed to Bolvar taking the crown to contain it.

    The important aspect here though is that the argument of Arthas' culpability hinges on whether to assume the old lore is still applicable, which I would argue it isn't given we have new lore that if not contradicts it, at least changes important facets of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Oh, Sylvanas's lolredemption was definitely the result of Danuser taking over for Afrasiabi. You only need to compare the earlier versions of Shadowlands where she sounds like her BFA version giving vague threats in a smarmy voice to her live version where she's exchanging motive rants and being sad with Anduin.

    Redeeming either is crap and defeats the point of the character. Redeeming Arthas will always be worse, but it hardly matters, since we'll be getting both.
    I would argue redeeming Sylvanas is worse, simply because of the sheer amount of time and retcons since Arthas relevant last.

    Arthas also has a specific moment where the writers can credibly say he was no longer in control, and therefore not entirely culpable.
    Sylvanas does not have a similar moment. Maybe that moment could be when she is stabbed by the blade, but more importantly it would require retconning recent events, not old events like with Arthas.

    Redeeming Arthas would always be easier than redeeming Sylvanas, simply because of the sheer time between the acts that made them evil in the narrative.
    As soon as Sylvanas redemption became even a possibility Arthas' redemption became a certainty, and that is even discounting the Uther cinematic that also made an Arthas redemption narrative suicide to avoid.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    You said his soul was split before the sword and to read the books because he was a depressed kid

    - - - Updated - - -

    Then you didn't understand what I meant. If your soul is split it doesn't mean you don't have a soul.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Prior to the plague and the trauma that came with it he was a pretty straight up and down good boy.
    He was also brash and arrogant. Invincible's death was his fault.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •