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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Ok, but what I mean is, in a racial/class pride expansion, then it doesn't do Nightborne players to have their races' story being infiltrated by Night Elves, nor would the average Night Elf player want to always be involved with a Horde race.

    So rather than Tyrande (because I think she needs to sit out and Night Elf Priest players do quests with Belysra Starbreeze who is a lot bigger than the time she's given in-game), what if Night Elf Mage players, with Mordent Evenshade and Nightborne Mage, Warlock and Priest players with Thalyssra meet up and...converse about the old times, good - bad - ugly.
    I reckon that is fair because I saw comments from Highborne fans and it's not so much about the whole thing regarding the Elune worship what people were talking about, it's the fact that Blizzard said "Highborne of Suramar became Nightborne." So maybe a better idea is for Nightborne casters and Night Elf Mages to have a questline that takes them to Zin-Azshari, they converse and the kaldorei go one way and shal'dorei go the other.

    I don't believe it's the direction that the Night Elf Priesthood will go to the Suramar Province.

    Also, we talk about the Valewalker Farodin - I regret to say that unless they change his VA, we won't be seeing his character return as his VA sadly passed in 2018.
    I think players want quality from blizzard. When it comes to what happened with Suramar and the nightborne, night elf fans feel betrayed by blizzard, they need to address that in the nightborne story...

    nightborne fans are night elf fans too, if you like the nightborne, you'd be foolish to think you don't like night elves, you may not like the blue darnasssians because they're alliance or that side of the night elves the Darnassians typically show, but the nightborne show another side, and that is also night elven.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  2. #402
    Herald of the Titans Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    And you think in a sane world anybody would trust them after their "stark" record of "We good now" after Azshara, Elisane and Sylvanas all one after another?
    well, yes; considering Thalyssra and the Nighborne fight against the Elisande and the Nightborne elites
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged custom models that intends to fill the gaps in the Reforged campaign

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    well, yes; considering Thalyssra and the Nighborne fight against the Elisande and the Nightborne elites
    And Elisande fought against Azshara. "Fighting" against someone dosent automatically makes you good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Nightborne joining any faction was a mistake and not just because of the horrific player models. They have more in common with the blood elves to be sure, but said similarities are if anything counterproductive because they overlap in so many of their traits and don't actually add anything to the Horde except being even more arcane than the blood elves which in turn pigeonholes them more into being holy elves. You could have them tip off the night elves while others have a grudge, but for the most part there's simply no reason for them to be involved in the narrative at all.

    The only exception where they would have more connection to a story than the blood elves in BFA was for the confrontation with Azshara but that's purely a hypothetical. What really happened was that they were sacrificed on the altar of Jaina's all consuming spotlight and even in Horde exclusive stories we spend all our screentime with those intolerable fucking gilblins. So we spent the course of the patch where we weren't Sadfang's little helpers with those fish midgets blabbering on about love and peace and making friends with crabs rather than the people who actually lived under Azshara's reign and have their story directly connected to her in origin.
    And Tyrande who was basically Azhara's choice for a groupie but refused it wasnt even there. Because "she will have her time in the spotlight later, in her Night warrior story" (blizz answer btw).

    Instead we got Jaina and a bit of Shandris who is basically a painted high elf now. Upd: Actually she is worse then painted high elf because high elfs are not as pathetic and weak willed, allforgiving doormats as she is.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    But Night Elf fans and Forsaken fans didn't like the narrative so Blizzard backed down and now Night Elves have got their lands back, whilst Forsaken fans are still waiting to return to Lordaeron.
    There are two things to keep in mind.
    1 Blizzar canceled the narrative before Fans can comment. He never offered a new home to the Kaldorei or the Forsoken.

    2 How the fuck Blizzard expected fans to like the narrative. We destroy what represents your race and we give you something of a new race that does not connect in the least with yours.
    It was obvious that the fans were not going to like it.

    It's the equivalent of destroying one faction and then focusing the expansion on the other faction 100% ... literally.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    But Night Elf fans and Forsaken fans didn't like the narrative so Blizzard backed down and now Night Elves have got their lands back, whilst Forsaken fans are still waiting to return to Lordaeron.

    Night Elf fans in particular wanted their race to return to Kalimdor. Most just accepted that Suramar wasn't going to be there's but Suramar itself was not important. Night Elf lands like Ashenvale, Darkshore, Hyjal - these were what Blizzard heard and eventually what Blizzard gave. It had to be one or the other. Either you had the Suramar warfront of kaldorei vs shal'dorei, with Worgen and Sin'dorei aid - or you had the Darkshore Warfront. Their was never going to be the option to have both, because Blizzard would have struggled to tell a convincing story of how the night elves are the main face for two warfronts.

    Now, I believe it's time for the Forsaken to return to their homeland of Lordaeron. Tirisfal needs to be restored and the Forsaken start anew, with Dark Ranger Velonara (or somebody who isn't Calia since Blizzard aren't going to put her as the Forsaken leader - they confirmed this) as their leader.
    If you paid attention you would have noticed that Forsaken already back to Lordaeron.

    And likely they were there since the Battle of Lordaeron, maybe a dew weeks later because apparently Alliance didnt even tried to hold the land they took and just left as soon as Undercity got blighted.

    Unlike Horde Alliance wasnt even trying to take over EK.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    It can, maybe, be a reason to cease fire to end, but that was not the case.


    A cease fire does not end because some people "perceive" an action as a "betrayal", the "betrayal" was also completely arbitrary and subjective, and since Anduin did not allow an attack, he clearly didn't consider to be a cease-fire end material
    Yeah and Anduin is the only one in the alliance brass...oohhh wait he is not. After that both Jaina and Genn where done with the horde. Its even shown ingame. But before they where working with the horde on the broken shore. 1+1=2.
    So starting point, was broken shore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    A)
    It's pretty damned obvious the Hrode is retreating, from Varian's perspective, with all the hornblowing and leaving.

    B)
    I maintain my stance that even if it were the case the situation was retreat first ask questions later. Waiting for Skyfire was very stupid given that they literally just crashed another 2 Skyships in the approach, at least.

    Find the flavor text before Aliance departs for Stormheim.
    A.) and what did genn say?

    B.) What tells the flavor text? That Genn and Rogers had different take on the mission as Anduin.

    Again, they where working with the horde on the broken shore.
    Then Genn and Jaina feel betrayl after Varians death.
    And then Jaina leaves and Genn goes on revenge mission.

    If Varian did not die, or the horde came and helped with the retreat there would be most likely less anger. But they felt betrayed. Ergo, what caused the skism in trust they had....broken shore. Varian could have/would have pulled the leash on Genn.

    But what are we even talking about. With the current knowledge we have. We know that it was all the Jailor and his puppets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I think players want quality from blizzard. When it comes to what happened with Suramar and the nightborne, night elf fans feel betrayed by blizzard, they need to address that in the nightborne story...

    nightborne fans are night elf fans too, if you like the nightborne, you'd be foolish to think you don't like night elves, you may not like the blue darnasssians because they're alliance or that side of the night elves the Darnassians typically show, but the nightborne show another side, and that is also night elven.
    Yeah, as launch druid night elf player. I kinda feel like that. Nightborne felt like a version of highborne. And yes we feel betrayed. We see Sylvanas be redeemd. Our lands are completly destroyed.

  7. #407
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Yeah and Anduin is the only one in the alliance brass...oohhh wait he is not..
    yeah... wait, no, he is the only one, as the high king, everyone have to lower their heads and accept, thats why Gen did behind his back

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    If you paid attention you would have noticed that Forsaken already back to Lordaeron.

    And likely they were there since the Battle of Lordaeron, maybe a dew weeks later because apparently Alliance didnt even tried to hold the land they took and just left as soon as Undercity got blighted.

    Unlike Horde Alliance wasnt even trying to take over EK.
    "likely" is not good enough for me.

    All we saw was a few miserable night elf dark rangers in Tirisfal. We have no comment about the larger civilian Forsaken populace, who are still noted to be in Orgrimmar.
    Mathias and Shaw only note that Tirisfal's Blight is starting to receed but nothing about the civilians or Brill being rebuilt.

    Night Elves had Hyjal. Confirmation that night elf civilians can start moving back.
    Forsaken fans need that confirmation. They aren't "lesser" than you because they don't like the almighty, night elves.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    "likely" is not good enough for me.

    All we saw was a few miserable night elf dark rangers in Tirisfal. We have no comment about the larger civilian Forsaken populace, who are still noted to be in Orgrimmar.
    Mathias and Shaw only note that Tirisfal's Blight is starting to receed but nothing about the civilians or Brill being rebuilt.

    Night Elves had Hyjal. Confirmation that night elf civilians can start moving back.
    Forsaken fans need that confirmation. They aren't "lesser" than you because they don't like the almighty, night elves.
    It is not that the Forsaken are less and it bothers me a lot those who believe that the Kaldorei are the only ones who suffer.

    But don't assume that the Hijal really is something. Saying that "they went to HIjal" is the same as saying that "now Arthas's sister will guide them to a better future." They really have no value until they show it and it is very likely that they never show it.

    Or show it only to destroy it again.

    Other than that. The Forsaken can go to any of their other civilian towns that were not destroyed. (which I agree tastes like nothing.)

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    yeah... wait, no, he is the only one, as the high king, everyone have to lower their heads and accept, thats why Gen did behind his back
    Yes, so ?

    If one person after the betrayl they felt ( and horde could have done more). Hell the archers could have protected the retreat of the alliane. people would still made it out.

    So the act 1 person. by order or not. Did it AFTER broken shore. After the betrayl. If all the allianec made it out. Or with little note worthy cassualties then genn had less things to rage about.

  11. #411
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Yes, so ?
    that means your point is invalid, and the ceas-efire did not end ind arkshore because Gen or Jaina felt betrayed, period.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    that means your point is invalid, and the ceas-efire did not end ind arkshore because Gen or Jaina felt betrayed, period.
    Yes, and seeing as the horrible history with the horde/undead those 2 had. It broke any good will they had. And they left/attacked. But if broken shore did not go as it went. Nothing would have happend.

    So lets make this clear. People claim Stormheim was the start of the War again. False, if you claim it was legion. You should pick the cause of stormheim: broken shore.

  13. #413
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Yes, and seeing as the horrible history with the horde/undead those 2 had. It broke any good will they had. And they left/attacked. But if broken shore did not go as it went. Nothing would have happend. .
    Again, this is politics, not hurt feelings, it does not matter if they dislike, their good will left.

    A cease fire is not about they feeling good, is about stopping hostilities between the two groups and prevent an escalating in a open war, back in vanilla-wtlk there was a lot of skirmishes and conflicts that did not ended the cease-fire, if they ever felt "hurt feelings about it" the war would have started much sooner.

    So lets make this clear. People claim Stormheim was the start of the War again. False, if you claim it was legion. You should pick the cause of stormheim: broken shore.
    Broken shore was not what the start the war again, that is a fact.

    Stormheim was a direct and surprise attack to the enemy war leader, on the back of the opposite leader, that is not just a skirmish against a small tribe.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Again, this is politics, not hurt feelings, it does not matter if they dislike, their good will left.

    A cease fire is not about they feeling good, is about stopping hostilities between the two groups and prevent an escalating in a open war, back in vanilla-wtlk there was a lot of skirmishes and conflicts that did not ended the cease-fire, if they ever felt "hurt feelings about it" the war would have started much sooner.



    Broken shore was not what the start the war again, that is a fact.

    Stormheim was a direct and surprise attack to the enemy war leader, on the back of the opposite leader, that is not just a skirmish against a small tribe.
    But that is just it. The good will left...you just said what i am saying. It made the will to comply with the peace/cease fire go away. So it start the spiral downworth to war again. Aka the starting shot.

    The start of the war it was. It was going up before that. more peace, working as 1 etc.
    After that it went bad again.

    And stormheim could be argeud was just about 1 leader getting a powerful weapon. So kinda braking the truce/cease fire there also. So if someone attacks you to stop that. Who was to blame?

    But again, stormheim would not have happend if broken shore did not went the way it did. So if you say: stormheim is the start of the war.
    And stormheim had a cause....then the cause must be the start of the war.

    I would agree the first blow in real life against each other was thrown there. But the start was before it.

  15. #415
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    But that is just it. The good will left...you just said what i am saying. It made the will to comply with the peace/cease fire go away. So it start the spiral downworth to war again. Aka the starting shot.

    The start of the war it was. It was going up before that. more peace, working as 1 etc.
    After that it went bad again.

    And stormheim could be argeud was just about 1 leader getting a powerful weapon. So kinda braking the truce/cease fire there also. So if someone attacks you to stop that. Who was to blame?

    But again, stormheim would not have happend if broken shore did not went the way it did. So if you say: stormheim is the start of the war.
    And stormheim had a cause....then the cause must be the start of the war.

    I would agree the first blow in real life against each other was thrown there. But the start was before it.
    Dude, you can complain, argue and twist all you want, the ceasefire did not end on darkshore, period, that is canon. Even Anduin confirmed by not letting no one attack the horde, why? BECAUSE CEASE FIRE.

  16. #416
    I think it's less a physical blockade and more a very clear "you would be killed on sight."

    They agreed to a reasonable offer all things considered during the last attempt at a "peace summit" at Hyjal in Shadows Rising which has yet to be met.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

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