Page 6 of 22 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
16
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    The elves attacked first without any provocation in WC3. The Horde established a trade agreement with them to harvest lumber under the guidance of druids, which the elves unilaterally broke after the Wrathgate, despite it being revealed to be a Legion plot to frame them. Then later accused them of slaughtering druids, which was a frameup that the Twilight Hammer pulled, despite the Wrathgate setup being fresh in people's minds. How many times can the elves be duped into believing the orcs to be attackers and lashing out at them before the orcs get tired of diplomacy and just go to take what they want. Seems the answer is three times.
    The Orks could have asked their Tauren allies about Ashenvale. Remember, the Orcs are green because of the demon blood they drank in WC1.
    For the elves, they just looked just like another kind of demonic creature, even if they were informed about the Orcs. Why would they think anything else about Orcs from the stuff they have done in WC1 and WC2. The Orcs knew that they were not welcome in these woods but they still pushed forward even drank demon blood to archive their goals.

    The diplomacy stuff aside. Garrosh probably did not even want to try, he loved the old Horde that just goes to war and take what they want.
    Orcs had no claim for anything in Ashenvale, it was their choice to settle into a dessert. Garrosh did not just take the resources, they butchered the Night Elfs brutally in Cataclysm. What kind of diplomacy is that where you just attack the other side of you don't get what you want?

    Looking at all the small fights between Horde and Alliance in Vanilla the Orcs did not exactly improve their standing with the Night Elf, they actively pushed them to join the Alliance.

    And finally with BfA we saw again that distrust in Orcs and the Horde was right. The Horde not only butchered civilians down in every village between Ogrimmar and Teldrassil, they also burned down the tree with mostly civilians on it.


    Also, see what VladlTutushkin said.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    The Orks could have asked their Tauren allies about Ashenvale. Remember, the Orcs are green because of the demon blood they drank in WC1.
    For the elves, they just looked just like another kind of demonic creature, even if they were informed about the Orcs. Why would they think anything else about Orcs from the stuff they have done in WC1 and WC2. The Orcs knew that they were not welcome in these woods but they still pushed forward even drank demon blood to archive their goals.

    The diplomacy stuff aside. Garrosh probably did not even want to try, he loved the old Horde that just goes to war and take what they want.
    Orcs had no claim for anything in Ashenvale, it was their choice to settle into a dessert. Garrosh did not just take the resources, they butchered the Night Elfs brutally in Cataclysm. What kind of diplomacy is that where you just attack the other side of you don't get what you want?

    Looking at all the small fights between Horde and Alliance in Vanilla the Orcs did not exactly improve their standing with the Night Elf, they actively pushed them to join the Alliance.

    And finally with BfA we saw again that distrust in Orcs and the Horde was right. The Horde not only butchered civilians down in every village between Ogrimmar and Teldrassil, they also burned down the tree with mostly civilians on it.


    Also, see what VladlTutushkin said.
    To add to that. Despite that most horde players will never "agree" that this is canon (as if opinion of players matters to blizz), "War Crimes" has Garrosh talking to Anduin where Andy just asks him, hypothetically, if all that war, slaughter and everything else could have being avoided if Alliance just caved in and GAVE him a King's ransom of resources and land enough to ensure Horde's economic prosperity.

    To which Garrosh said that NO, that would change fuck nothing since war was as much about reinforcing the "true way" of the Horde as Garrosh envisioned it and about going to war with Alliance in the same vein that for example in real life Germany opposed "judeo bolshevism" or Crusades opposed "heathens who hold Holy Land".

    It was his Holy War, his Jihad, his Push to the East. He wouldnt just give up the fight if resources and some land concessions were given to him.

    Sylvanas even comes to the similar conclusion when she muses how drowning Stormwind in blood will "sate the Horde's bloodlust" for a very long time.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Ok my bad then.



    It still doesn't work. The aggression "jump" is simply absurd.
    We could only manage to go from "zug zug I'm bad" to "work work I'm bad".
    thats my whole point from the start. ( you are still missing it).
    The agression needs a other catalyst ( cause/spark) for the war. Thats why i said. si 7 ( or sylvannas planted some evidence) to make it look like the alliance started the war. Or did some bad things.

    Right now the story is from "peace" to mass murder war in 2 seconds flat.

    A couple of quests /lore ingame that gives better motivation.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    thats my whole point from the start. ( you are still missing it).
    The agression needs a other catalyst ( cause/spark) for the war. Thats why i said. si 7 ( or sylvannas planted some evidence) to make it look like the alliance started the war. Or did some bad things.

    Right now the story is from "peace" to mass murder war in 2 seconds flat.

    A couple of quests /lore ingame that gives better motivation.
    I understand your point.
    What you don't get is that even with evidence there is no way it can scale that much. The problem is not that Sylvanas started a war or that he tried to conquer the Kaldorei. That's normal.
    Because it is more assumed that the Alliance if he did things to start a war, Genn in essence starts the war in legion. Another thing is that Blizzard ignored them to make Sylvanas 100% bad.

    The problem is that I aimed catapults at civilians who had surrendered. I shot them and killed them all and no one said anything.

  5. #105
    If Night Elf lands are blocked to the Horde, then what does that mean for the Zorum'gar Post, Splintertree Post and the Tauren camps around Feralas (if this zone is still considered land of the kaldorei.)

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    If Night Elf lands are blocked to the Horde, then what does that mean for the Zorum'gar Post, Splintertree Post and the Tauren camps around Feralas (if this zone is still considered land of the kaldorei.)
    Jack shit, like the previous times the Horde was blocked from an area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    If Night Elf lands are blocked to the Horde, then what does that mean for the Zorum'gar Post, Splintertree Post and the Tauren camps around Feralas (if this zone is still considered land of the kaldorei.)
    If Ashenvale is now in night elven hands then outposts like Zoram'gar must be empty anyway. And in Feralas tauren live very far off from night elfs so they likely dont run into each other often.

  8. #108
    I understand but A: this is a Fantasy Game and you have to suspend disbelief. and B: As I said those races opinions were heavily shaped by the zealotry and or madness of the current Horde Leadership.
    If Vol'Jin had survived I believe things would have gone in a much different direction. I would like to believe that the fact that Night Elves used to be Trolls at some distant point to perhaps to count for something if there had been a reigning troll Leader who wasn't consumed by hatred and or insanity.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    If Vol'Jin had survived I believe things would have gone in a much different direction. I would like to believe that the fact that Night Elves used to be Trolls at some distant point to perhaps to count for something if there had been a reigning troll Leader who wasn't consumed by hatred and or insanity.
    Night Elfs and Trolls don't have good relations. Zandalari uses Night Elf skulls as toy for their kids. The only race the Horde got, with good relations with Night are Tauren. But even with Baine as Warchief, I don't think Night Elfs should let Horde into their woods.
    I don't get why people want the Night Elfs to let Horde into their land? That would make things actively more boring imho.
    Last edited by Hellspawn; 2021-07-25 at 06:06 PM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Night Elfs and Trolls don't have good relations. Zandalari uses Night Elf skulls as toy for their kids. The only race the Horde got, with good relations with Night are Tauren. But even with Baine as Warchief, I don't think Night Elfs should let Horde into their woods.
    I don't get why people want the Night Elfs to let Horde into their land? That would make things actively more boring imho.
    Funny how they hate night elves (and basically how game often puts the blame of Azharan Empire on them) when of all survivng branches of elven people they are the farthest from those times and one that hates the Empire the most.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    And if you remember Tyrande didnt showed up, only nelf troops there were those that signed up with Shandris and her cock-sucking ways.

    Basically what Hellspawn already said.
    Funny think that since Tyrande basically went AWOL and the only NE forces in Darkshore were Shandrys's and Maiev's, which they brought following rumors about Tyrande doing the ritual.

    Also the fleet was there and joined the battle during WoT, by the time Saurfang&co flanked them through Felwood from the north..

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Warsong Clan kept attacking night elves since Vanilla, hence the Warsong Gulch backstory. Thrall knew about it but feared that if he cracks down on Warsong and orders them to stop other orcs will stop respecting him so he just did nothing.

    Also night elfs first asked Garrosh if he knew anything to which he said that he dosent care and EVEN if those were his orcs who did that he wouldnt punish them because he dosent see anything wrong with the slaughter. Hence why elfs cut the trade.

    Orcs only have themselves to blame for their shitty attitude and bad planning, when they got Azshara they wasted ALL resources there in three years. A zone that was literally untouched by industry before that. Because they dont care about efficiency, smart use of materials or anything else. They even allowed goblins to poison local water sources.
    Again, night elves attacked first. All the way back in the orc campaign of WC3. Anything the Warsong do is retaliation for being attacked by elves and a demigod without provocation.

    Also elves cut the trade after Wrathgate, not the druid slaughter.

    Where would you go to log? A densely packed forest, or a coastal grassland with a few trees here and there?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    The Orks could have asked their Tauren allies about Ashenvale. Remember, the Orcs are green because of the demon blood they drank in WC1.
    For the elves, they just looked just like another kind of demonic creature, even if they were informed about the Orcs. Why would they think anything else about Orcs from the stuff they have done in WC1 and WC2. The Orcs knew that they were not welcome in these woods but they still pushed forward even drank demon blood to archive their goals.

    The diplomacy stuff aside. Garrosh probably did not even want to try, he loved the old Horde that just goes to war and take what they want.
    Orcs had no claim for anything in Ashenvale, it was their choice to settle into a dessert. Garrosh did not just take the resources, they butchered the Night Elfs brutally in Cataclysm. What kind of diplomacy is that where you just attack the other side of you don't get what you want?

    Looking at all the small fights between Horde and Alliance in Vanilla the Orcs did not exactly improve their standing with the Night Elf, they actively pushed them to join the Alliance.

    And finally with BfA we saw again that distrust in Orcs and the Horde was right. The Horde not only butchered civilians down in every village between Ogrimmar and Teldrassil, they also burned down the tree with mostly civilians on it.


    Also, see what VladlTutushkin said.
    Even orcs who didn't drink, like Durotan, were made green simply the overuse of fel in the planet they were on. Just like blood elves who never tapped fel got green eyes. The elves didn't know anything about the orcs at this point, nto even about WC1 and 2. "Oh hey, these guys attacked us out of nowhere just a few miles from our new capital to keep us from getting wood to build our homes. Guess we better leave." THAT's your logic?

    And again, we're not talking Cata diplomacy. We're talking about the trade agreement they had from WC3 all the way through Wrath that the elves unilaterally broke after Wrathgate. You know, when the Legion framed the Horde and it was quickly discovered? And yet mere months later it's so easy for the Twilighr Hammer to do the same. I read Vlad, he was completely wrong too. Folks completely miss or ignore events.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Again, night elves attacked first. All the way back in the orc campaign of WC3. Anything the Warsong do is retaliation for being attacked by elves and a demigod without provocation.

    Also elves cut the trade after Wrathgate, not the druid slaughter.

    Where would you go to log? A densely packed forest, or a coastal grassland with a few trees here and there?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Even orcs who didn't drink, like Durotan, were made green simply the overuse of fel in the planet they were on. Just like blood elves who never tapped fel got green eyes. The elves didn't know anything about the orcs at this point, nto even about WC1 and 2. "Oh hey, these guys attacked us out of nowhere just a few miles from our new capital to keep us from getting wood to build our homes. Guess we better leave." THAT's your logic?

    And again, we're not talking Cata diplomacy. We're talking about the trade agreement they had from WC3 all the way through Wrath that the elves unilaterally broke after Wrathgate. You know, when the Legion framed the Horde and it was quickly discovered? And yet mere months later it's so easy for the Twilighr Hammer to do the same. I read Vlad, he was completely wrong too. Folks completely miss or ignore events.
    Orcs were breaking that agreement since Vanilla. Warsong Clan was attacking even after the peace and trade treaty. Elves could have thrown the treaty in Thrall's face at any moment from Vanilla to Cata and yet they did it only in Cata.

    Also Horde has access to many lumber rich zones, from Feralas, Ungoro, Azshara (lorewise it has lots of trees, not as dense as Ashenvale but its still good enough) and now all kinds of allies from Broken Isles to Zandalar.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Even orcs who didn't drink, like Durotan, were made green simply the overuse of fel in the planet they were on. Just like blood elves who never tapped fel got green eyes. The elves didn't know anything about the orcs at this point, nto even about WC1 and 2. "Oh hey, these guys attacked us out of nowhere just a few miles from our new capital to keep us from getting wood to build our homes. Guess we better leave." THAT's your logic?
    Outside of this Broxigar fellow, who was only instrumental in winning WotA and personally knew Malf, Illidan and Tyrande to say the least.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Yeah, Horde got the message "Horde is bad"... because they are. But Alliance, especially night elves had to actually pay the price.

    You guys want to be the tough, ugly, edgy, bad guys, but also but god forbid someone is calling you out for it.
    It's like wanting to have your cake and eat it, too. Make a choice.

    It would be more interesting if the writers were actually able to make the story more ambiguous, morally gray. But they are constantly going for
    Game of Thrones shock and awe.
    Alliance bias keeps people like you strong. But worry not., the regime of Blizzard will be overthrown and the Hrode will killyou alliance scum off for good. No mercy. You all will die.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    Alliance bias keeps people like you strong. But worry not., the regime of Blizzard will be overthrown and the Hrode will killyou alliance scum off for good. No mercy. You all will die.
    Its not enough that both EU and US forums laugh at you and treat you as a clown, you also want to make a detour to MMOchamp? You not a clown at this point, you are a whole traveling circus.

  17. #117
    I don't even care. Lock us out of your lands lorewise. Whatever. I can't blame them... I sure can blame BLizzard for a fucking lot about this mess, but it seems like Blizzard can be blamed for a LOT of gross missconduct so i feel like this is kind of... Ya know?

    Im also significantly done to have alliance players act like i, as a player who plays both bot does prefer horde, have no right to be irritated about the whole story development because the Bitchqueen burned down originally unwanted shrubbery. As if having that happen and getting Saurfang killed is doing us any good or something anyone wanted.
    If you are offended by something i said, im probably at least 45% sorry about it and there is a 3% Chance it was not on purpose!

    Victim to Blizzard-Marketing since 2004

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Its not enough that both EU and US forums laugh at you and treat you as a clown, you also want to make a detour to MMOchamp? You not a clown at this point, you are a whole traveling circus.
    I don't care. What matters is that the alliance suffers.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    I don't care. What matters is that the alliance suffers.
    So far only your reputation have suffered.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Yeah, Horde got the message "Horde is bad"... because they are. But Alliance, especially night elves had to actually pay the price.

    You guys want to be the tough, ugly, edgy, bad guys, but also but god forbid someone is calling you out for it.
    It's like wanting to have your cake and eat it, too. Make a choice.

    It would be more interesting if the writers were actually able to make the story more ambiguous, morally gray. But they are constantly going for
    Game of Thrones shock and awe.
    In turn, i will call you shallow, boring and uncreative for playing different flavors of human in form of "purple human with sharper ears" in generic-fantasy-castle.jpg and should call you worse things for looking down on other players for not wanting that. Don't be so full of yourself. You don't know why people join the Horde or like the Horde as players and judging by that bullshit post, there is not much else you know period. If you think what i said is insulting and needlessly rude, compare it to what you said and ask if that's fair.

    Needless to say i don't actually think that about Alliance players - i spend probably just about the same amount of time active on both sides and people can and should play what they want, but that description is just as accurate as you think yours is. You want to be the prince in shining armor? The tragic hero? Deal with getting your teeth kicked and work for it.

    Thanks for proving my point i made JUST before reading your post tho.
    Last edited by SoundOfGuns; 2021-07-25 at 08:36 PM.
    If you are offended by something i said, im probably at least 45% sorry about it and there is a 3% Chance it was not on purpose!

    Victim to Blizzard-Marketing since 2004

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •