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  1. #161
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post

    Pointing to Genn and equating his actions to the multiple genocides carried out by the Horde, specifically as lead by the Forsaken, is not a great argument to make.

    one(mostly Sylvanus doing) is not "multiples", cause i don't believe you are counting the forsaken campaing in cata as "genocide"

    Cause you know, dwarves bomb an entire tribe of taurens, and im not talking about taurujo, that is way more of a genocide

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    I’m sorry but none of those characters except Varian were revered. Most just popped out of the nether to then get killed “tragically”. Rhonin also wasn’t Alliance.
    And the Horde didn’t even get Varian killed - they were getting slaughtered and retreated. If they’d remained that extra minute and a half to properly die, would that have somehow saved Varian from getting Gul’dan’d?

    The only faction that actually loses revered/important characters is the Horde.
    Again, and again, and again.
    What? Sira was killed by the Horde and made an undead by Sylvanas. So was Delaryn and Arthas's sister Calia and Derek Proudmoore. And which lands did the Horde lose exactly?


  3. #163
    @Eggroll Hordies keep crying about losing characters, and I got tired of replying in detail, so I just saved a post. Feel free to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Horde loses characters? You don't say?

    Horde fans: We want to crush the Alliance for existing! DA WER IN WERCREFT!
    Blizz writers, well known for being hippies: War is bad, maaaaaaaaaan.
    Horde fans: BLOOD! THUNDER! CHICKEN TENDIES!
    Blizz writers: Your endgame is everyone NotHorde dead. Alliance endgame is you stop murdering them for a while. Your endgame can't happen.
    Horde fans: We lust for mountains of skulls and rivers of blood! Also, don't you dare blame the war on our aggression.
    Blizz writers: OK, Alliance wins because we're not flushing our business model. Everything is blamed on $hordecharacter so the Horde itself is blameless.
    Horde fans: *surprised Pikachu face*
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  4. #164
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    What? Sira was killed by the Horde and made an undead by Sylvanas. So was Delaryn and Arthas's sister Calia and Derek Proudmoore. And which lands did the Horde lose exactly?
    two nobodies or lowly ranks. Calia still is alive and derek was dead over 30 years ago LOL

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    If you read A Good War the army returns before the Horde even gets to Darkshore but they never get off their ships. As they arrive the Horde uses their azerite weapons to destroy most of their ships killing everyone on them. A handful do escape but the bulk burned like Stannis on the Blackwater.

    Thats not counting the losses taken by the night elves in Darkshore during the battle or in the retaking of Darkshore.
    Not really. Only a few Ships arrive. Shandris never gets to be in the fight.
    The Horde manages to defeat what would be the "outpost" and venser would not be the right thing to do.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Hordies LOVE to push the idea that the debts of the Old Horde were paid up with Hyjal, but somehow Hyjal didn't square any grievances the Horde had. That makes the Horde hypocrites but good.

    You want to claim the Night Elves are fair game for an event more than a decade (would need to check on exact in game time) ago? Cool, the Horde is fair game for everything the Old Horde pulled. Exact same logic, but I expect attempts at weaseling out of it.
    Anyway it's obvious that the Night Elves will never get any real justice for the many atrocities that the Horde inflicted on them, just like the Draenei never got any justice for the genocide and other atrocities that orcs and their allies did to them.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    What? Sira was killed by the Horde and made an undead by Sylvanas. So was Delaryn and Arthas's sister Calia and Derek Proudmoore. And which lands did the Horde lose exactly?
    Actually Calia was made that wierd lightundead thing by Anduin and Faol

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    It was a blue comment stating that the refugee story would continue "at another time" but I am currently looking for it.
    That can mean anything, really, also just 5 Night elf themed shacks in Elwynn forest...

    ...or a throwaway mention in some novel, more likely.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    In the new Exploring Kalimdor book, Velen tells Zekhan and Rexxar that even as explorers and cartographers, they are not allowed into Night Elf lands "for clear reasons".

    What does this spell out for any future expansion that takes place on EK or Kalimdor? We have yet to see an event that would really convince them to let the Horde players into their lands, and it runs against the ongoing theme of neutrality that seems like it will be continued in the future. See: Calia being groomed for the position of Forsaken queen, who likely would let Alliance in her lands.

    Is this just a reason to hide Night Elf zone development from lore, or will this Night Elf blockade continue into the future?
    Well, this should not come as a surprise to anyone. The Nightelves might like to keep what is left of their population alive and allowing the Horde in their lands has repeatedly done the opposite, ever since Thrall's Horde set foot on Kalimdor.

    The Horde has a lot to make up for and by now they have done nothing. Thrall is the only member of the Horde who even tried to apologize, the rest doesn't give a crap or would rather keep murdering Night Elf babies for the fun of it, so there is no Neutrality. There is a bigger thread at the moment, thanks to the Horde supporting a psychopathic mass murder YET AGAIN, but there is no reason to think that killing Sylvanas would mend the relationship between Horde and Alliance.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    two nobodies or lowly ranks. Calia still is alive and derek was dead over 30 years ago LOL
    The two nobodies were nobodies only to the Horde. Calia is pretty much as undead as every Forsaken and Derek is still an Alliance character the Horde claimed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    Actually Calia was made that wierd lightundead thing by Anduin and Faol
    But she was killed by Sylvanas, wasn't she?

    And which Horde characters did the Alliance kill lately? And what lands did the Horde lose, despite losing a war twice?... nothing comes to mind.
    Last edited by Eggroll; 2021-07-26 at 01:52 PM.


  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    And you think that imprisoning or punishing the leader of another nation within the Alliance will do what, exactly?
    Oh, so in the Alliance the law means nothing if you're rich and powerful? Nice excuse dude. Don't complain that the Horde retaliates then.

  12. #172
    Warchief Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Oh, so in the Alliance the law means nothing if you're rich and powerful? Nice excuse dude. Don't complain that the Horde retaliates then.
    It's good to see you continue to ignore the surrounding context and try to equate what Genn did to the multiple genocides committed by the Horde. Nice.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    It's good to see you continue to ignore the surrounding context and try to equate what Genn did to the multiple genocides committed by the Horde. Nice.
    Hordies have trouble with political structures more complex than "you do what me say or die" warchiefs and cultures more sophisticated than "Me want, me take." The ones that do understand more realize the Horde is wrong, and therefore resort to anything to avoid admitting that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    But she was killed by Sylvanas, wasn't she?

    And which Horde characters did the Alliance kill lately? And what lands did the Horde lose, despite losing a war twice?... nothing comes to mind.
    Yeah, the event kind of suffers from the narrator meta-absolving Anduin of any blame, despite the fact he brought Calia, the heir by claim of succession to Lordaeon, there in secret probably assuming nobody will recognise her? The two people that did had vastly different reactions and one is specifically justified by him being her close personal friend in life. The other one was absolutely horrified and immideately went to tell Sylvanas, who assumed the worst and was affirmed in it by Calia's subsequent actions. But we can't have the golden boi look bad so any interesting political implications, which could have been explored were dropped instantly making Calia's death pretty much meaningless outside of making her some wierd thing that goes against established interactions of light and undead, because reasons?


    Most notably the recent ones would be King Rastakhan and Nathanos Blightcaller.

    Which are more notable than any kills Horde scored against the Aliance since King Llane Wryn and as you may notice the Aliance still has the majority of it's OG leadership. Anduin, Tyrande&Malf, Mekatorque, Velen, Greymane and arguably Magni, altho he is in the Thrall zone.

    Meanwhile Horde:
    Cairne - dead by poison
    Vol'jin - dead by Felguard
    Thrall - fucked off to green jesus(comparable to MAgni)
    Kael'thas - suddenly a villain that betrayed everyone and had to be killed twice... so far.
    Sylvanas - storytelling disaster still ongoing
    Grommash - sacrificed himself twice
    Gallywix - now a fugitive
    and so forth not even counting the pre-Thrall iterations.


    As far as the zones go that was mostly Blizzard correcting a Vanilla disparity based on them working on the Eastern Kingdoms first and just giving Aliance way more stuff initially.

  15. #175
    Warchief Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Hordies have trouble with political structures more complex than "you do what me say or die" warchiefs and cultures more sophisticated than "Me want, me take." The ones that do understand more realize the Horde is wrong, and therefore resort to anything to avoid admitting that.
    It's not even to say that the Alliance has not done bad things, there's plenty of examples that can be pointed to as being war crimes or just general atrocities, but the Genn example just breaks down on so many levels (most notably the results of each action and the concept of individual vs. collective action).
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  16. #176
    It means nothing because the Night Elves have always been incredibly protective of their lands. Literally nothing has changed.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    Which are more notable than any kills Horde scored against the Aliance since King Llane Wryn and as you may notice the Aliance still has the majority of it's OG leadership. Anduin, Tyrande&Malf, Mekatorque, Velen, Greymane and arguably Magni, altho he is in the Thrall zone.

    Meanwhile Horde:
    Cairne - dead by poison
    Vol'jin - dead by Felguard
    Thrall - fucked off to green jesus(comparable to MAgni)
    Kael'thas - suddenly a villain that betrayed everyone and had to be killed twice... so far.
    Sylvanas - storytelling disaster still ongoing
    Grommash - sacrificed himself twice
    Gallywix - now a fugitive
    and so forth not even counting the pre-Thrall iterations.
    In short, the Alliance has a legitimate right to demand the head of the Horde.
    Horde has a legitimate right to demand BLIZZARD's head.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    It's good to see you continue to ignore the surrounding context and try to equate what Genn did to the multiple genocides committed by the Horde. Nice.

    Attacking the head of a state can be even more damaging than killing civilians.

    Also Teldrassil wasn't genocide, but I get that it supports your narrative.

    Genocide is when you target a specific group and want to exterminate them because of being in that group. Like what Hitler did.

    Sylvanas didn't go to war thinking " Man I sure hate Night Elves I want to kill them all "

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by starstationprofm View Post
    Also Teldrassil wasn't genocide
    Too bad Blizzard disagrees.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Too bad Blizzard disagrees.
    Blizzard doesn't get to decide what Genocide means.

    Their grasp of the English language is not my problem.

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