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  1. #541
    It goes - with saying - me too

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    I just wanted to mention that it is possible for people to not know about horrible behavior by coworkers. I had a horrible year at one unit in the marines, and my husband had no clue what the culture was like. Our coworkers respected him (possibly feared his reactions), he was a dude, and he only ever heard others talking shit one time about the women. He was in the unit for 3 years, and had no idea. Most of the bosses had no clue either, and the two ding dongs in leadership who participated made sure not even a hint made it up the chain. So yes, I believe Metzen, and (most) of the others. They had HR, they had policies in place, there were over 1,000 employees, and I'm sure he was NOT involved in day-to-day personnel management. In a unit of 50, guys were able to hide it, I'm sure it was much easier in offices spread around the world.
    Yeah, I definitely have to agree with you and I'm at least willing to suspend my (mostly useless) judgement on Metzen's culpability because of that. My squadron in the air force had a similar situation going on. I was largely kept in the dark about sketchy shit that was going on after duty hours because I had a reputation for bringing the hammer down on anyone that I found pulling it. Unfortunately, many people teach their kids from a young age that no one likes a tattle-tail or a narc, so a lot of people are basically conditioned not to speak up about serious situations like this and they'll actively avoid anyone that will blow the lid off of it. Not to mention the rest of the complicated emotions that a victim feels about speaking up. That can definitely lead to instances where leadership/mid-line supervisors don't know about a lot of insidious crap that's going on. At that point I'm not sure who you should blame except for the d-bags that are committing the crimes.

    That said, I don't know the full situation at Blizzard. I'm sure that it's a little bit different in every company. So if a bunch of their employees/former employees say that they tried to reach out to these Blizzard execs and found no help, or if said execs were aware of how ineffective their reporting system was, then I'd be inclined to believe those employees that are calling them out. I haven't seen anyone directly attack Metzen yet, but I definitely saw one woman lighting up Morhaime on twitter.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexosaurus View Post
    Yeah, I definitely have to agree with you and I'm at least willing to suspend my (mostly useless) judgement on Metzen's culpability because of that. My squadron in the air force had a similar situation going on. I was largely kept in the dark about sketchy shit that was going on after duty hours because I had a reputation for bringing the hammer down on anyone that I found pulling it. Unfortunately, many people teach their kids from a young age that no one likes a tattle-tail or a narc, so a lot of people are basically conditioned not to speak up about serious situations like this and they'll actively avoid anyone that will blow the lid off of it. Not to mention the rest of the complicated emotions that a victim feels about speaking up. That can definitely lead to instances where leadership/mid-line supervisors don't know about a lot of insidious crap that's going on. At that point I'm not sure who you should blame except for the d-bags that are committing the crimes.

    That said, I don't know the full situation at Blizzard. I'm sure that it's a little bit different in every company. So if a bunch of their employees/former employees say that they tried to reach out to these Blizzard execs and found no help, or if said execs were aware of how ineffective their reporting system was, then I'd be inclined to believe those employees that are calling them out. I haven't seen anyone directly attack Metzen yet, but I definitely saw one woman lighting up Morhaime on twitter.
    Multiple people have come forward saying Morhaime knew and did nothing, which is the issue. If he was actually in the dark, it would be a different matter. This is more a case of him ignoring it, in the hope that it would go away. Pure douchebag behaviour.

  4. #544
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    I just wanted to mention that it is possible for people to not know about horrible behavior by coworkers. I had a horrible year at one unit in the marines, and my husband had no clue what the culture was like. Our coworkers respected him (possibly feared his reactions), he was a dude, and he only ever heard others talking shit one time about the women. He was in the unit for 3 years, and had no idea. Most of the bosses had no clue either, and the two ding dongs in leadership who participated made sure not even a hint made it up the chain. So yes, I believe Metzen, and (most) of the others. They had HR, they had policies in place, there were over 1,000 employees, and I'm sure he was NOT involved in day-to-day personnel management. In a unit of 50, guys were able to hide it, I'm sure it was much easier in offices spread around the world.
    It is possible but there are a number of things that need to be pointed out here: Where were the team leaders and supervisors during the cubicle crawls? Were they reporting up to their bosses? If so, why were they largely ignored? How does an office environment descend to "frat-house" level with management not knowing?

    It doesn't pass the smell test that you can have that sort of stuff going on in an office environment, never mind the tales of drug use and the rest that we're all familiar with (Hi Chris Metzen...), and the management team is completely ignorant about it. A management team I might add that are all pretty much gamers themselves and often claimed that they were close to the artists, developers and the rest who are on the ground. "We're close but didn't know about this." Hard to swallow.

    Have to wait for details as this moves forward barring a settlement that locks all of this away.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Multiple people have come forward saying Morhaime knew and did nothing, which is the issue. If he was actually in the dark, it would be a different matter. This is more a case of him ignoring it, in the hope that it would go away. Pure douchebag behaviour.
    Oh yeah, the tweets that Cher Scarlett sent out seemed pretty damning as far as Morhaime goes. I've kind of already written him off.

    Metzen is the big 'question mark' in my books. I'd like to believe him because he seems like a nice and thoughtful person on the surface, but we'll see if anyone comes forward/calls him out specifically.

    EDIT ---
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    How does an office environment descend to "frat-house" level with management not knowing?
    That's probably my biggest hang-up on them being "in the dark." If this was going on at work, then I do find it a little harder to believe that they didn't know about some of the allegations in the suit. That said, I really have no idea how their offices are set up or how present someone like Metzen was around the office (especially during his mental breakdown and/or drugs? phase).
    Last edited by Rexosaurus; 2021-07-26 at 01:48 AM.

  6. #546
    High Overlord Zinstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    cant they just segregate men and women at blizzard everyone can still do their jobs without any risk of feelings being hurt
    .....yea because segregation in general has worked very well in the past.... do you honestly think the issue would magickly be "fixed" if blizzard separated their workers based on sex? Do you honestly believe that this situation came about just because a bunch of people just got "hurt feelings"?

    If the answer in your mind to ether of those questions are yes... then you clearly haven't been paying attention.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexosaurus View Post
    Oh yeah, the tweets that Cher Scarlett sent out seemed pretty damning as far as Morhaime goes. I've kind of already written him off.

    Metzen is the big 'question mark' in my books. I'd like to believe him because he seems like a nice and thoughtful person on the surface, but we'll see if anyone comes forward/calls him out specifically.
    I didn't read all her tweets but I think in one she said he knew and told someone to "take care of it" which she thought ment firing her or what ever. How much of that is her interpretation? If someone's job is to do dishes and I ask them to take care of it and someone thinks I ment for the person to throw them away clearly they are misinterpreting my intent.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It is possible but there are a number of things that need to be pointed out here: Where were the team leaders and supervisors during the cubicle crawls? Were they reporting up to their bosses? If so, why were they largely ignored? How does an office environment descend to "frat-house" level with management not knowing?

    It doesn't pass the smell test that you can have that sort of stuff going on in an office environment, never mind the tales of drug use and the rest that we're all familiar with (Hi Chris Metzen...), and the management team is completely ignorant about it. A management team I might add that are all pretty much gamers themselves and often claimed that they were close to the artists, developers and the rest who are on the ground. "We're close but didn't know about this." Hard to swallow.

    Have to wait for details as this moves forward barring a settlement that locks all of this away.
    Well there is the saying "When the cat's away, the mice will play". And I think there was a report that like 40-50% of all internet usage at jobs in the US is non work related which I think kinda shows alot of people are overestimating the ability of a supervisor to know all the shit that's going down around them. Especially when they have multiple things to do besides just watching over a single group of people. I think another good example everyone should be familiar with is teachers in school. We all were kids once and unless you were homeschooled I guarantee you know of some incidents where in a confined space students did shit that the teacher didn't notice. Hopefully not sexual assault levels of bad but I'm sure you know several things a teacher was blissfully unaware of. I'm not sure how many of the dudes that allegedly did the stuff in question were so ballsy as to try and grab a titty in front of a higher up unless that person was doing the same thing. It will be interesting to see how this plays out and if alot of the higher ups were just kept out of the loop or what.

  8. #548
    I mean it's not like we can tell him "get in your time machine, go back 3 years and fix this then!" People can say it's hollow, but he's not in a position to do more.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Sylvanas will just give her own head to Tyrande.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  9. #549
    Funny how everybody always never saw it or heard about it. Just like the Weinstein, Epstein situations.
    Especially Metzen claiming he never had dealings with Afrasiabi non-work-related when it's clear from their Blizzcon interactions they were close buddies.

  10. #550
    Right now it's not really a 'did they know' situation it's more of a 'what did they do' situation. Obviously those in power who did nothing are to blame, those who had no power or very little were ignored. And seeing as how Mike (Seemingly) had wind of this going on and did nothing... Yeah, this makes me look very unwelcoming to Blizzard, let alone old Blizzard. I'm hoping a few key members and leads are exempt from this culture and shit - but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

  11. #551
    Bloodsail Admiral Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varjo410 View Post
    Funny how everybody always never saw it or heard about it. Just like the Weinstein, Epstein situations.
    Especially Metzen claiming he never had dealings with Afrasiabi non-work-related when it's clear from their Blizzcon interactions they were close buddies.
    I have this dark feeling that metzen and samwise are actually one of the worst of them all. They really stress this overly manly man behaviour of dwarfs and orcs in some of their fantasies. But yeah. Just a feeling
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  12. #552
    Stood in the Fire Muxtar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    This is such a ridiculous amount of hyperbole. At worst some people will stop buying their games and the people who are named in the lawsuit will find it harder to find new jobs though some of them probably already have. People are allowed to voice opinions on the internet. That does not = 'mob justice'. Just as we as consumers can use whatever sense of corporate responsibility we want to apply to companies to decide whether we want to buy their products.
    These 'opinions on the internet' ruin people's careers and future, because way too many companies which are afraid of public reaction (and profit decrease), hurry to fire people 'in advance'. Most recent and vivid example is the case of Kael'Thas voice actor, which was fired immediately, but later it was clarified that accusations were false. And guess what? He didn't get his job or reputation back.
    It is not just 'opinions on the internet' at all.

  13. #553
    Why people pretend they actually care?

  14. #554

  15. #555
    Not shocking someone is calling Metzen out the guy always shot from the hip and when you mix that with being so coked out he probably thought he was thrall for a big period at the company he's definitely going to have said some stupid shit.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  16. #556
    Metzen's probably culpable from a perspective of sheer inaction and ignorance. It's a stink show across the board.

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Metzen's probably culpable from a perspective of sheer inaction and ignorance. It's a stink show across the board.
    And the vultures emerges in throves.

    Its like people have been waiting dormantly for something like this for ages

  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    And the vultures emerges in throves.

    Its like people have been waiting dormantly for something like this for ages
    What the fuck are you on about? I've always thought highly of Metzen, but I'm also aware that lasting cultural change in an organisation can be really tricky. I'm not asking for Metzen's head on a pike. Far from it. I'm hoping he'll be aware of how important it is to take workplace culture seriously. That's about it. The only people who deserve 'comeuppance' are the ones who did the harassing and/or tried to slide it under the rug.

    The people who didn't know better just ought to learn from their mistakes. Nothing more, nothing less.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Monoliith View Post
    I have chosen to believe this statement overall, and hope that he means it.

    And after the way the "good guys" have been treating the VICTIMS of these people on social media, I want nothing to do with them. Use your energy to spread positivity to the victims, don't waste it on the victimizers. It will do nothing except give them ammunition in court to explain why THEY are suddenly the victim. And for the love of god, if you can't say anything polite or kind to the people who work at/with blizzard, but are VERY OBVIOUSLY not part of this culture, keep your mouth shut.

    Do not start replying to me with hate comment's, ill just report and block you without reading it.
    but how will you know its a hate comment if you don't read it? :thinking:

  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    What the fuck are you on about? I've always thought highly of Metzen, but I'm also aware that lasting cultural change in an organisation can be really tricky. I'm not asking for Metzen's head on a pike. Far from it. I'm hoping he'll be aware of how important it is to take workplace culture seriously. That's about it. The only people who deserve 'comeuppance' are the ones who did the harassing and/or tried to slide it under the rug.

    The people who didn't know better just ought to learn from their mistakes. Nothing more, nothing less.
    I'm talking about this: "Metzen's probably culpable from a perspective of sheer inaction and ignorance"

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