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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It is possible but there are a number of things that need to be pointed out here: Where were the team leaders and supervisors during the cubicle crawls? Were they reporting up to their bosses? If so, why were they largely ignored? How does an office environment descend to "frat-house" level with management not knowing?
    There's a lot of "it depends" here.

    But as someone who works in a corporate office cubicle farm, it's not THAT hard for it to fly under the radar. The team, their team leaders, supervisors, managers and the higher up executives don't all sit together, or even close together, most of the time, cubicles take up space so teams can be spread out across entire floors, or between floors and/or buildings, where some folks don't even see or hear each other all day. And even if they did, offices are a thing, so if the higher ups are in their office with the door closed while something stupid is going on outside, they wouldn't even be remotely aware of it unless someone specifically told them about it and even then unless someone explicitly said that what happened was offensive, not OK, etc... they wouldn't necessarily do anything about it.

    I know it seems like all of this stuff could and should have bee caught by many people, but in a cubicle farm, it's VERY easy to get immersed in the work you're doing on the job. There have been several videos of developer offices showing people with headphones on, I know I wear some at work to drown out all the office banter and bullshit when I have something I really need to work on.

    It doesn't pass the smell test that you can have that sort of stuff going on in an office environment, never mind the tales of drug use and the rest that we're all familiar with (Hi Chris Metzen...), and the management team is completely ignorant about it. A management team I might add that are all pretty much gamers themselves and often claimed that they were close to the artists, developers and the rest who are on the ground. "We're close but didn't know about this." Hard to swallow.
    I will agree with this, but also say it's possible that they knew about some of this stuff happening but never truly understood just how bad it was and thought that it was being dealt with by the appropriate people. High up executives don't tend to get involved in HR issues like this unless they absolutely have to, that's what HR is for. It's obvious it was egregious enough that they SHOULD have gotten involved, but obviously something kept them from doing so. Whether that's incompetence on their part or something else is yet to be seen.

    I'm not excusing them, they failed, period. Just saying I understand that there's a lot of things and reasons why they could have failed, though really, none of those reason are excusable, but identifying why and how something failed is one of the first steps in correcting the problem.

  2. #562
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Apparently stock value wasn't affected at all:

    "If you work on the understanding that the market value of a company is found through discovery of all information and data, the current price is arguably the effect the market has decided this law suit has on the company. That’s to say until more data is found or discovered.

    Blizzard is only a portion of the whole business, but it’s clear the markets aren’t overly worried of any massive loss of subs / revenue at least in the medium term. Unfortunately for everyone here blizzard and activision are large enough to pay and make this go away under NDA."
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  3. #563
    Warchief Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I have this dark feeling that metzen and samwise are actually one of the worst of them all. They really stress this overly manly man behaviour of dwarfs and orcs in some of their fantasies. But yeah. Just a feeling
    Dwarves and Orcs in Warcraft are actually kinda tuned down from other fantasy universes, like D&D and Pathfinder.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Apparently stock value wasn't affected at all:

    "If you work on the understanding that the market value of a company is found through discovery of all information and data, the current price is arguably the effect the market has decided this law suit has on the company. That’s to say until more data is found or discovered.

    Blizzard is only a portion of the whole business, but it’s clear the markets aren’t overly worried of any massive loss of subs / revenue at least in the medium term. Unfortunately for everyone here blizzard and activision are large enough to pay and make this go away under NDA."
    Realistically, why would it be? Most players aren't going to care about the underlying issues, they're going to play the game if it's fun. If the game isn't fun or enjoyable, then they won't play it.

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    Dwarves and Orcs in Warcraft are actually kinda tuned down from other fantasy universes, like D&D and Pathfinder.
    well to be fair they toned down the ripping off Games Workshop.

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Apparently stock value wasn't affected at all:

    "If you work on the understanding that the market value of a company is found through discovery of all information and data, the current price is arguably the effect the market has decided this law suit has on the company. That’s to say until more data is found or discovered.

    Blizzard is only a portion of the whole business, but it’s clear the markets aren’t overly worried of any massive loss of subs / revenue at least in the medium term. Unfortunately for everyone here blizzard and activision are large enough to pay and make this go away under NDA."
    They know Bobby will just throw another lootbox somewhere into his machine and make up any loss such a thing will cost. His only concern right now is probably that he doesn't want this stuff to make it up towards him, because having his fucking disgusting devil face right next so sexual harassment claims would make the devil horns look like nothing .

    ALOT of players are also locked into subs etc, so if they can weather the storm they might barely lose anything.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  7. #567
    Sexual or racial harassment unfortunately is a problem of our society not the problem of a distinct company. Women (and also men) are harrassed everywhere at work, at the sports club, at the night club, in public areas. The allegations described in the lawsuit don't seem very special to me. The secretary that pleases the boss almost is a cliché. Sexual interactions during business trips, x-mas parties or company trips probably happen every day. While some of them are consensual others are not.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Muxtar View Post
    These 'opinions on the internet' ruin people's careers and future, because way too many companies which are afraid of public reaction (and profit decrease), hurry to fire people 'in advance'. Most recent and vivid example is the case of Kael'Thas voice actor, which was fired immediately, but later it was clarified that accusations were false. And guess what? He didn't get his job or reputation back.
    It is not just 'opinions on the internet' at all.

    Welp, if they are afraid of people's opinions on mmo-champion then that's just the way that it is. I'm not giving up my right to free speech because of how these gaming companies behave. So they'll just have to sort it out themselves.

  9. #569
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Sider View Post
    Sexual or racial harassment unfortunately is a problem of our society not the problem of a distinct company. Women (and also men) are harrassed everywhere at work, at the sports club, at the night club, in public areas. The allegations described in the lawsuit don't seem very special to me. The secretary that pleases the boss almost is a cliché. Sexual interactions during business trips, x-mas parties or company trips probably happen every day. While some of them are consensual others are not.
    It looks like it's a big portion worse at blizzard as for example for my last company I worked for (very big internet IT company). There you need to constantly earn badges in sexual harassment prevention courses and so on. Employee integrity and respect and equality are their highest values. Those sex club or bl*w j*b Ratings are Kind of on another level. I think you can not compare these to other IT companies outside of the gaming industry. Sadly unequal payment is real everywhere
    Vynd | Zorn | Pheraz | Silwyna | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  10. #570
    I don't believe for a second that the co-founder of this company called Blizzard Entertainment was completely unaware of this shit going down.

    However, they founded this company, fresh from college, with probably almost no professional experience worth mentioning. I can imagine they never really had any education regarding proper leadership skills etc. and approached their roles with complete naivety and generally lacked the maturity to be aware of what was needed from them as leadership and role models. That doesn't excuse anything. They had ample time to learn and grow, and apparently they didn't.


  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Muxtar View Post
    These 'opinions on the internet' ruin people's careers and future, because way too many companies which are afraid of public reaction (and profit decrease), hurry to fire people 'in advance'. Most recent and vivid example is the case of Kael'Thas voice actor, which was fired immediately, but later it was clarified that accusations were false. And guess what? He didn't get his job or reputation back.
    It is not just 'opinions on the internet' at all.
    Spoken like someone who has never owned a business.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Will you also stop playing Blizzard games though?
    Already have, deleted everything off my harddrive, even my older games like SC2. I won't ever give them another dime. Canceled D2R preorder and won't be playing D4. I actually put my money where my mouth is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    Common courtesy? absolutely. Respect is a totally different thing. You have to actually do something worthy of respect to receive it. Respect goes above and beyond the golden rule.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Use some common fucking sense. re-read shit you don't initially understand instead of making a foolish post.

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    At what point did i ever say people should be harassed or threatened at work? There are rules against that behavior in workplaces, yes? So if it's going on then someone isn't "respecting" or abiding by the rules and should be fired.
    You use respect when you feel it fits your little viewpoint. I'd expect nothing less from someone who proudly uses Jinpachi as a role-model. Same as someone using Dexter. You see someone strong, unlike yourself, and want people online to view you that way and spout ignorant claims and opinions then backtrack meanings and definitions you yourself used a few posts up.

    Go troll somewhere else, little man.

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Inoculate View Post
    Already have, deleted everything off my harddrive, even my older games like SC2. I won't ever give them another dime. Canceled D2R preorder and won't be playing D4. I actually put my money where my mouth is.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You use respect when you feel it fits your little viewpoint. I'd expect nothing less from someone who proudly uses Jinpachi as a role-model. Same as someone using Dexter. You see someone strong, unlike yourself, and want people online to view you that way and spout ignorant claims and opinions then backtrack meanings and definitions you yourself used a few posts up.

    Go troll somewhere else, little man.
    That's completely fair, dude. And I respect your view point. I'm not really a paying customer at this juncture, so I can't comment.

    I'll probably play Hades instead of Diablo 2 anyway. Feels like a fresher game, but let's see how it goes.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by Inoculate View Post
    Already have, deleted everything off my harddrive, even my older games like SC2. I won't ever give them another dime. Canceled D2R preorder and won't be playing D4. I actually put my money where my mouth is.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You use respect when you feel it fits your little viewpoint. I'd expect nothing less from someone who proudly uses Jinpachi as a role-model. Same as someone using Dexter. You see someone strong, unlike yourself, and want people online to view you that way and spout ignorant claims and opinions then backtrack meanings and definitions you yourself used a few posts up.

    Go troll somewhere else, little man.
    At this point, you might as well delete all games in some way linked to AAA development, really. And I don't mean this sarcastically or anything. This is an industry-wide problem, and just boycotting the latest company that had their shady crap revealed just serves to shift things around a little bit. It seems lately that they all have something going on, be it inhumane crunch, sexual harassments, whatnot. Putting money where the mouth is may be the only way, but it is probably best to only put that money into companies at this point that can somehow prove that they aren't like that and not give any of them the benefit of the doubt.

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    At this point, you might as well delete all games in some way linked to AAA development, really. And I don't mean this sarcastically or anything. This is an industry-wide problem, and just boycotting the latest company that had their shady crap revealed just serves to shift things around a little bit. It seems lately that they all have something going on, be it inhumane crunch, sexual harassments, whatnot. Putting money where the mouth is may be the only way, but it is probably best to only put that money into companies at this point that can somehow prove that they aren't like that and not give any of them the benefit of the doubt.
    Eh, that's a bit jumping the gun.

    I'm not going to demonize Nintendo for making Breath of the Wild 2 on the basis that this is an 'industry wide problem'. We need to be careful to address problems when they are actually problems, and not just generalize the entire industry as some universally broken system.

    'One bad apple can spoil the bunch' is not intrinsically true or applicable to the entire industry.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-26 at 07:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Eh, that's a bit jumping the gun.

    I'm not going to demonize Nintendo for making Breath of the Wild 2 on the basis that this is an 'industry wide problem'. We need to be careful to address problems when they are actually problems, and not just generalize the entire industry as some universally broken system.

    'One bad apple can spoil the bunch' is not intrinsically true or applicable to the entire industry.
    I also don't really agree with the notion that hitting the company in their pockets will do anything to change the corporate culture.

    The only thing that will is the consistent speaking of truth to power, and holding those at the top accountable for their actions.

    The culture in many industries needs addressing. Crunch, discrimination, etc etc. People need to be treated better.

  17. #577
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I also don't really agree with the notion that hitting the company in their pockets will do anything to change the corporate culture.

    The only thing that will is the consistent speaking of truth to power, and holding those at the top accountable for their actions.

    The culture in many industries needs addressing. Crunch, discrimination, etc etc. People need to be treated better.
    These problems have been running for years/decades in who knows how many companies and are rooted deep there. Can we even change that culture at this point?
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-07-26 at 07:53 PM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    These problems have been running for years/decades in who knows how many companies and are rooted deep there. Can we even change that culture at this point?
    Somehow it needs to change. Commoditising people is NOT cool, and maybe companies need the threat of collective bargaining.

  19. #579
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Somehow it needs to change. Commoditising people is NOT cool, and maybe companies need the threat of collective bargaining.
    Unionizing could help.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    This is a PR statement to placate those who think silence admits guilt, thats it.
    Except it really doesn't, in most cases, not anymore at least... so you have to wonder how deluded they and / or their advisors are, to think that such a move actually works in this day and age...

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