Page 30 of 32 FirstFirst ...
20
28
29
30
31
32
LastLast
  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    These problems have been running for years/decades in who knows how many companies and are rooted deep there. Can we even change that culture at this point?
    Yes, we can.

    To pretend that none of this can change because it happens often is just being jaded because it's known and few things get changed.

    But that doesn't mean change can happen, because it absolutely can given that there is enough awareness out and enough demand for it.

    There is a case to enact change, especially if people become more aware of where they choose to be employed and what to look out for when deciding where to go. As someone who does work in the industry, news like this informs me and my recommendations to others of potential places of employment. Blizzard is a dream job for many people, and knowing that this shit has happened and has not been addressed will definitely hurt their public image in more than just the customers, but also those seeking employment at a top company.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDeeLyla View Post
    Except it really doesn't, in most cases, not anymore at least... so you have to wonder how deluded they and / or their advisors are, to think that such a move actually works in this day and age...
    No statement will ever be 100% agreeable to those who choose to believe they are not being genuine. They are also in no position to stay quiet and simply give no statement or no comment. That is the reality of it.

    This is the *best case scenario* of the *worst possible situation* they are in. All they can do is damage control for anyone who is on the fence, but ready to judge any act of silence as an admission of guilt. Anyone who isn't on the fence would considered them guilty (or not guilty) regardless of what they say.

    Their hand was already caught in the cookie jar. So admitting fault and taking responsibility for seeking to rectify the problem in the future is really all they can do.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-26 at 08:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  2. #582
    High Overlord Chilela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Funposter Retirement Home
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    isnt segregation considered racist/sexist these days?
    You would think, but for some, the answer has short of shifted to "It depends on who's calling for the segregation".

    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Apparently stock value wasn't affected at all:

    "If you work on the understanding that the market value of a company is found through discovery of all information and data, the current price is arguably the effect the market has decided this law suit has on the company. That’s to say until more data is found or discovered.

    Blizzard is only a portion of the whole business, but it’s clear the markets aren’t overly worried of any massive loss of subs / revenue at least in the medium term. Unfortunately for everyone here blizzard and activision are large enough to pay and make this go away under NDA."
    I wouldn't be surprised if people are speculating that people will be momentarily outraged but still funnel money, and things will just return to business as usual within a few months at absolute most, given the amount of blunders Blizz has gone through, both in and out of the games they produce.

  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    At this point, you might as well delete all games in some way linked to AAA development, really. And I don't mean this sarcastically or anything. This is an industry-wide problem, and just boycotting the latest company that had their shady crap revealed just serves to shift things around a little bit. It seems lately that they all have something going on, be it inhumane crunch, sexual harassments, whatnot. Putting money where the mouth is may be the only way, but it is probably best to only put that money into companies at this point that can somehow prove that they aren't like that and not give any of them the benefit of the doubt.
    Mostly been playing FF14, Oxygen Not Included and some switch titles - AAA has been declining in terms of actual decent output lately and this is an industry wide issue, mostly, as you say. Until real change comes, I won't be touching anything Riot, Activision, EA, and the like produce.

    It's a shame it took this suit to really inspire a big change and I hope it actually comes for the people affected and this isn't just another week of us rumbling and nothing actually comes of it which is my fear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    That's completely fair, dude. And I respect your view point. I'm not really a paying customer at this juncture, so I can't comment.

    I'll probably play Hades instead of Diablo 2 anyway. Feels like a fresher game, but let's see how it goes.
    Hades is pretty solid, I'm more a Hollow Knight man myself - not really comparable to D2 but if you haven't tried it, I highly highly recommend it and the sequel (prequel?) is coming soon.

    I get what you mean though, a lot of people are upset and still shelling money out to them which means that the stakeholders don't care what's being said, money is all they care about.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Inoculate View Post
    Mostly been playing FF14, Oxygen Not Included and some switch titles - AAA has been declining in terms of actual decent output lately and this is an industry wide issue, mostly, as you say. Until real change comes, I won't be touching anything Riot, Activision, EA, and the like produce.

    It's a shame it took this suit to really inspire a big change and I hope it actually comes for the people affected and this isn't just another week of us rumbling and nothing actually comes of it which is my fear.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Hades is pretty solid, I'm more a Hollow Knight man myself - not really comparable to D2 but if you haven't tried it, I highly highly recommend it and the sequel (prequel?) is coming soon.

    I get what you mean though, a lot of people are upset and still shelling money out to them which means that the stakeholders don't care what's being said, money is all they care about.
    Looking at my collection of games, there’s only FIFA from EA. Nothing from Activision. Ubisoft I have the Assassin’s Creed games. But I don’t do whale purchases, so there’s that. I’m boring to them.

  5. #585
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    4,456
    GhostCrawler on that Blizzcon answer 10y ago:

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/ghostcr...lizzcon-323549
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  6. #586
    Stood in the Fire Muxtar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    494
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    Welp, if they are afraid of people's opinions on mmo-champion then that's just the way that it is. I'm not giving up my right to free speech because of how these gaming companies behave. So they'll just have to sort it out themselves.
    No one asks you to give away freedom of speech. But that freedom should be used with responsibility, because it is people's lifes, not just some silly forum banter that will be forgotten next day. And you may as well appear on those people's seat soon enough. Mob lynching works that way, 'there must always be a bad guy' (c)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Spoken like someone who has never owned a business.
    Yep, I didn't own a business and don't want to. So what?

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Muxtar View Post
    No one asks you to give away freedom of speech. But that freedom should be used with responsibility, because it is people's lifes, not just some silly forum banter that will be forgotten next day. And you may as well appear on those people's seat soon enough. Mob lynching works that way, 'there must always be a bad guy' (c)

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yep, I didn't own a business and don't want to. So what?
    Well, I do take responsibility for everything I say on the internet and everything I've said on this thread I stand 100% behind. Simple as that. Bliz deserves to be raked over the coals and their responses aren't going to do them any favors. Their own people are calling them out for it right now as much as we are on mmo champion. Their own people. Metzen has publicly said that Afriasabi's behavior was reprehensible.
    Last edited by Berndorf; 2021-07-26 at 09:49 PM.

  8. #588
    Stood in the Fire Muxtar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    494
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    Well, I do take responsibility for everything I say on the internet and everything I've said on this thread I stand 100% behind. Simple as that.
    Yea, you do take it behind anonymous account without any personal info, sure. I mean that responsibility should be used such way, that you will think twice before jumping on that hype 'burn em all' train with all the mob already there, and at least will think of 'innocent until proven guilty' principle. And mind you, state investigation =/= court verdict, not yet.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Muxtar View Post
    Yea, you do take it behind anonymous account without any personal info, sure. I mean that responsibility should be used such way, that you will think twice before jumping on that hype 'burn em all' train with all the mob already there, and at least will think of 'innocent until proven guilty' principle. And mind you, state investigation =/= court verdict, not yet.
    I wouldn't think twice about anything I've said even if my name and picture were being used on this thread. That's the way I am. We as people get to comment on everything going on in the world and I'm not calling for people to be put in jail. All that I've said so far is that Bliz has a serious problem with it's work environment and that if they are smart they will fire Brack and most of the other top brass. Look at what current employees are saying.

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    GhostCrawler on that Blizzcon answer 10y ago:

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/ghostcr...lizzcon-323549
    Unpopular opinion, but I don't think there was anything wrong with the original response other than a matter of being tactless and untasteful at the time. I don't see this as a matter of discrimination at all, considering they are the designers of the game and they pick and choose what the females in the game look like. I don't think there's anything really to apologize for in terms of an actual stance.

    Was the answer tasteless and creepy? Yeah, of course. But it's not what I consider a step in the direction of harassment or 'frat boy culture' as pertains to the lawsuit. I believe bad jokes and bad responses can be differentiated from sexually deviant behaviour. I personally do not evaluate this to being to the level of a rape joke, cube crawl or any type of actual deviant behaviour, to me it's a bunch of jokes in bad taste and that's about it.

    Overall though, I am happy to see GC owning up to it and still giving a response regardless, only that I don't think it is particularly damning to say the least. I don't see that particular event being any more than simply being cringeworthy response material.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    Well, I do take responsibility for everything I say on the internet and everything I've said on this thread I stand 100% behind. Simple as that. Bliz deserves to be raked over the coals and their responses aren't going to do them any favors. Their own people are calling them out for it right now as much as we are on mmo champion. Their own people. Metzen has publicly said that Afriasabi's behavior was reprehensible.
    Metzen also appointed him as his successor. He is trying to coves his new product, nothing else.

    Some thrall - garrosh vibes ;P

  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Unpopular opinion, but I don't think there was anything wrong with the original response other than a matter of being tactless and untasteful at the time. I don't see this as a matter of discrimination at all, considering they are the designers of the game and they pick and choose what the females in the game look like. I don't think there's anything really to apologize for in terms of an actual stance.

    Was the answer tasteless and creepy? Yeah, of course. But it's not what I consider a step in the direction of harassment or 'frat boy culture' as pertains to the lawsuit. I believe bad jokes and bad responses can be differentiated from sexually deviant behaviour. I personally do not evaluate this to being to the level of a rape joke, cube crawl or any type of actual deviant behaviour, to me it's a bunch of jokes in bad taste and that's about it.

    Overall though, I am happy to see GC owning up to it and still giving a response regardless, only that I don't think it is particularly damning to say the least. I don't see that particular event being any more than simply being cringeworthy response material.
    It's not wrong in the legal sense but it is wrong in terms of how they seem to view their female audience and in terms of what it reflects about how they view women npcs/players imo. Personally I never got the whole 'every npc needs to be a blood elf in a bikini' mindset. That's just me speaking as a man in his 40's who may outgrew that way of thinking 20 years ago. I feel like a lot of the men who worked for Bliz and who were speaking for them at Blizzcons never outgrew that early 20's mentality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Metzen also appointed him as his successor. He is trying to coves his new product, nothing else.

    Some thrall - garrosh vibes ;P
    That may be true. You still have both former employees and current employees saying some pretty harsh stuff about the company though. Which says a lot imo. Obviously including women as well.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    It's not wrong in the legal sense but it is wrong in terms of how they seem to view their female audience and in terms of what it reflects about how they view women npcs/players imo. Personally I never got the whole 'every npc needs to be a blood elf in a bikini' mindset. That's just me speaking as a man in his 40's who may outgrew that way of thinking 20 years ago. I feel like a lot of the men who worked for Bliz and who were speaking for them at Blizzcons never outgrew that early 20's mentality.
    Well, that's hard to really differentiate as 'frat boy culture', because yes, admittedly there was plenty of immaturity all around in the dev team.

    I agree that they're a bit tone deaf and immature, but my point is that the article in question was pointing out specific discrimination, while my view on this is that they are not particularly discriminating women here, more that they're just being dumbasses mocking fans for the sake of mocking fans. And we actually see this being fairly common when faced with *any* question they don't particularly feel like answering legitimately.

    Of course I'm not saying it's a good response or a good way of handling PR, but more that we can't pinpoint this as being discrimination on the basis of it literally being a cherry picked statement and an example of bad behaviour that has been isolated and taken out of context of how they usually tend to reply 'immaturely' to other fans. We can definitely say they were immature and not very tactful, I simply wouldn't go as far as equating this as particularly discriminating. The response itself of wanting Sylvanas to look like how she does and not change her is still a creative decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well, that's hard to really differentiate as 'frat boy culture', because yes, admittedly there was plenty of immaturity all around in the dev team.

    I agree that they're a bit tone deaf and immature, but my point is that the article in question was pointing out specific discrimination, while my view on this is that they are not particularly discriminating women here, more that they're just being dumbasses mocking fans for the sake of mocking fans. And we actually see this being fairly common when faced with *any* question they don't particularly feel like answering legitimately.

    Of course I'm not saying it's a good response or a good way of handling PR, but more that we can't pinpoint this as being discrimination on the basis of it literally being a cherry picked statement and an example of bad behaviour that has been isolated and taken out of context of how they usually tend to reply 'immaturely' to other fans. We can definitely say they were immature and not very tactful, I simply wouldn't go as far as equating this as particularly discriminating. The response itself of wanting Sylvanas to look like how she does and not change her is still a creative decision.
    I agree with that. Its just an example of them being somewhat tonedeaf as you say and not really seeming to understand why women were asking these kinds of questions.

  15. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by Muxtar View Post
    Yea, you do take it behind anonymous account without any personal info, sure. I mean that responsibility should be used such way, that you will think twice before jumping on that hype 'burn em all' train with all the mob already there, and at least will think of 'innocent until proven guilty' principle. And mind you, state investigation =/= court verdict, not yet.
    Hell, that's even *if* we get to a court verdict.

    Chances are this will all be settled out of court, so we won't be able to really validate any of the evidence.

    Blizzard is going to do all in their power to prevent any 'truth' from getting out into the public eye.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Hell, that's even *if* we get to a court verdict.

    Chances are this will all be settled out of court, so we won't be able to really validate any of the evidence.

    Blizzard is going to do all in their power to prevent any 'truth' from getting out into the public eye.
    It'll be a really tricky one to settle out of court, because they can't play the 'we have more money to drag this through the levels' card.

    The State of California will see this is a big statement case to contest, so time will tell how it rolls out.

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    It'll be a really tricky one to settle out of court, because they can't play the 'we have more money to drag this through the levels' card.

    The State of California will see this is a big statement case to contest, so time will tell how it rolls out.
    Not tricky. They just pay whatever is being asked and put try to it behind them as quickly as possible. The bigger issue right now is their own employees calling them out and telling them their public response was terrible.

  18. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora View Post
    There isn't much more to say other than he's a failed CEO and carries that failure with him to Dreamhaven.
    He's a pretty successful CEO, he built a multi billion dollar company. But hey, let's cancel him and his new studio.

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    Not tricky. They just pay whatever is being asked and put try to it behind them as quickly as possible. The bigger issue right now is their own employees calling them out and telling them their public response was terrible.
    Could be one of the routes. Will be a fuck load of money to pay out at that juncture. It'll be a huge scalp for the State Attorneys.

  20. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Could be one of the routes. Will be a fuck load of money to pay out at that juncture. It'll be a huge scalp for the State Attorneys.
    Not sure it will be that much for Bliz. Has an amount actually been named yet?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •