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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Could be one of the routes. Will be a fuck load of money to pay out at that juncture. It'll be a huge scalp for the State Attorneys.
    Not sure it will be that much for Bliz. Has an amount actually been named yet?

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    It'll be a really tricky one to settle out of court, because they can't play the 'we have more money to drag this through the levels' card.

    The State of California will see this is a big statement case to contest, so time will tell how it rolls out.
    It's all about money. So yes, they can lose a shit ton of money, at the cost of keeping everything quiet, as they always have. The alternative is arguably worse, and their brand damaged further by not only admission of guilt, but knowingly lying to the public with PR statements of deniability. It's arguably the worse case scenario.

    Settlement out of court is going to be the way it's likely going to be handled in any case where-they-don't-come-out-on-top.

    At best, they spin the whole situation as being something in the past, and how they're 'forging a new path of diversity and inclusion' in the future, yadda yadda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    Not sure it will be that much for Bliz. Has an amount actually been named yet?
    Nope, but given the amount of witnesses they're going to be bringing in, it'll be an interesting one for sure.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    He's a pretty successful CEO, he built a multi billion dollar company. But hey, let's cancel him and his new studio.
    I'm as against cancel culture as anyone but there's also a point where people say '**** this guy or **** this company' and stop buying what they are selling which I've done with a few companies over the years. Cancel culture to me is more when someone says something people don't like and so try to get them fired or kept from getting a new job. Things like fostering highly toxic work environments over decades is kind of a different thing imo. For some people that is enough to say 'I'm not supporting them anymore'.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's all about money. So yes, they can lose a shit ton of money, at the cost of keeping everything quiet, as they always have. The alternative is arguably worse, and their brand damaged further by not only admission of guilt, but knowingly lying to the public with PR statements of deniability. It's arguably the worse case scenario.

    Settlement out of court is going to be the way it's likely going to be handled in any case where-they-don't-come-out-on-top.

    At best, they spin the whole situation as being something in the past, and how they're 'forging a new path of diversity and inclusion' in the future, yadda yadda.
    I agree. 'We hear you, we recognise you (we will forget about you in 6 months!)'

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    I'm as against cancel culture as anyone but there's also a point where people say '**** this guy or **** this company' and stop buying what they are selling which I've done with a few companies over the years. Cancel culture to me is more when someone says something people don't like and so try to get them fired or kept from getting a new job. Things like fostering highly toxic work environments over decades is kind of a different thing imo. For some people that is enough to say 'I'm not supporting them anymore'.
    Completely agree here, and I find myself in this very boat.


    I've never really contributed to any boycott against Blizzard when they decidedly make poor business choices. That's really up to how they handle their business, whether it's banning players or announcing a game people aren't asking for or pushing out some unfinished shitty release. That's all shitty business practice, but it's still business, and I don't see them particularly being *wrong* in making those choices, albeit as bad ones. I can still enjoy the other products.

    But knowing what we do now of the people involved and the potential criminality of the scandals involved... it sours my enjoyment of their product in a way that I have never been faced with before. And to know that this stuff was going on for years after the fact it had been known by so many people... Jesus. There's literally a line to be drawn in the sand, and this crosses that line. There's no excuse for that level of unfair treatment and abuse of their employees. I am the few who legitimately own Reforged despite knowing the absolutely shit state the game is in, and I refunded it as I do not find any personal enjoyment of the game any more due to recent events (which includes the Bloomberg article about Reforged).

    The only solice I take in this is knowing that plenty of the content creators I follow had already made moves towards migrating to other games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Inoculate View Post
    Already have, deleted everything off my harddrive, even my older games like SC2. I won't ever give them another dime. Canceled D2R preorder and won't be playing D4. I actually put my money where my mouth is.

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    You use respect when you feel it fits your little viewpoint. I'd expect nothing less from someone who proudly uses Jinpachi as a role-model. Same as someone using Dexter. You see someone strong, unlike yourself, and want people online to view you that way and spout ignorant claims and opinions then backtrack meanings and definitions you yourself used a few posts up.

    Go troll somewhere else, little man.
    that post was full of projection. 2/10 for trying. Words aren't violence, you don't have to be threatened by them.

  8. #608
    Stood in the Fire Muxtar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Hell, that's even *if* we get to a court verdict.

    Chances are this will all be settled out of court, so we won't be able to really validate any of the evidence.

    Blizzard is going to do all in their power to prevent any 'truth' from getting out into the public eye.
    Well, that is real possibility, knowing how this stuff usually is figured out. And it is shame, but this is how real world works.
    As for me, I tend to think that there indeed were numerous cases of mistreatment of women in Blizzard, because way too much people have spoken up, and you can't make up all these stories with names in them. But still I won't jump to conclusions like most of the mob that all accusations are true by default and all persons in question are guilty by default as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    I wouldn't think twice about anything I've said even if my name and picture were being used on this thread. That's the way I am. We as people get to comment on everything going on in the world and I'm not calling for people to be put in jail. All that I've said so far is that Bliz has a serious problem with it's work environment and that if they are smart they will fire Brack and most of the other top brass. Look at what current employees are saying.
    Well, this is where I agree with you.
    As for Brack, as far as I understood, that initial response was from Activision lawyers, not the Brack himself. I personally see him as honest guy, just not competent enough to hold such important position, especially in such difficult times.
    But hey, speaking about that Activision response - every defendant has right to deny accusations, and to not run with hands held high yelling 'I'm guilty!'. So I don't get all that hate towards Activision response. Surely there is problem inside the company, but at the same time they don't have to bow down to DFEH and accept all that they are accused of.
    Last edited by Muxtar; 2021-07-27 at 06:23 AM.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    He's a pretty successful CEO, he built a multi billion dollar company. But hey, let's cancel him and his new studio.
    Yes, he is successful. But unfortunately, as we have seen many times in AAA industry, being successfully very often also means you are scummy.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-07-27 at 07:53 AM.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Yes, and by the looks of it, especially (part of) the WoW team, since Afrasiabi is singled out as one of the biggest offenders.
    Yes, and even more directly it calls out Afrasiabi with the title "Senior Creative Director for WoW" so it isn't something from his Titan days.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Eh, that's a bit jumping the gun.

    I'm not going to demonize Nintendo for making Breath of the Wild 2 on the basis that this is an 'industry wide problem'. We need to be careful to address problems when they are actually problems, and not just generalize the entire industry as some universally broken system.

    'One bad apple can spoil the bunch' is not intrinsically true or applicable to the entire industry.
    I mean, it is an industry where crunch, unreliable working situations, vastly disproportionate pay and apparently (sexual) harassments are the norm - and that's just the worker's side. We also got many of them preying on vulnerable people with gacha mechanics as well.
    How many scandals like this one does it take to acknowledge that there are problems in the industry in general? Yeah, one bad apple shouldn't just colour the opinion of a whole industry, but when every few months there is another controversy like this one, just saying "but the rest of them are not doing it" falls short as well. I mean, that is precisely why a lot of people now seeking to boycott actiblizz were doing so until a few weeks ago.

    At least Nintendo has already done quite a bit to show that it isn't like, say, EA. Aside from the gacha stuff they put into games aimed at kids, which I am a bit iffy on, but they seem like a responsible company to work for at least. But we only know that because they took public actions, like leadership taking paycuts and responsibility to help the workers.
    It is sad that such proof is kind of needed, but without it, then what? Boycott those who are found out and support those that manage to hide it/overlook the less egregious offenses?

  12. #612
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Yes, he is successful. But unfortunately, as we have seen many times in AAA industry, being successfully very often also means you are scummy.
    Indeed. CDPR is a good example: they make great games (aside from the massive Cyberpunk blunder lol), but they treat their workers like utter #$&%.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    I mean, it is an industry where crunch, unreliable working situations, vastly disproportionate pay and apparently (sexual) harassments are the norm - and that's just the worker's side. We also got many of them preying on vulnerable people with gacha mechanics as well.
    ---
    It is sad that such proof is kind of needed, but without it, then what? Boycott those who are found out and support those that manage to hide it/overlook the less egregious offenses?
    And as I suggested, we take everything as a case by case scenario and address them as they come, not just do a blanket 'Boycott the industry/triple A games because this is happening in some of the top studios'. That it happens industry wide does not mean it is pervasive in every corner of the industry, and we need to understand the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  14. #614
    Meh. Yes it's bad that women had to deal with this. And blizzard should rightfully be sued.

    But this, "let's cancel everything" culture isn't good for anyone. It doesn't matter whether the transgression is great or minor everyones out for blood. Ya'll are just as bad as those you're cancelling. It's hilarious you don't realize it.

    Even funnier, that you've absolutely adopted a guilty until proven innocent mindset have no ability to perceive that you've done so, and will be absolutely fine with this until it turns on you.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Muxtar View Post
    Well, that is real possibility, knowing how this stuff usually is figured out. And it is shame, but this is how real world works.
    As for me, I tend to think that there indeed were numerous cases of mistreatment of women in Blizzard, because way too much people have spoken up, and you can't make up all these stories with names in them. But still I won't jump to conclusions like most of the mob that all accusations are true by default and all persons in question are guilty by default as well.

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    Well, this is where I agree with you.
    As for Brack, as far as I understood, that initial response was from Activision lawyers, not the Brack himself. I personally see him as honest guy, just not competent enough to hold such important position, especially in such difficult times.
    But hey, speaking about that Activision response - every defendant has right to deny accusations, and to not run with hands held high yelling 'I'm guilty!'. So I don't get all that hate towards Activision response. Surely there is problem inside the company, but at the same time they don't have to bow down to DFEH and accept all that they are accused of.
    I think that they(Bliz employees) are aware of what standard operating procedure is for companies accused of wrong doing but what they are saying is that that's not good enough. Many of them are likely women who have already experienced it or know someone who has and that sort of reply just doesn't cut it for them. It comes off as basically saying all of those people are lying about what they've experienced while working at Blizzard and Blizzard wanting to minimize their own culpability which means lack of acknowledging that there is a problem in the first place.
    Last edited by Berndorf; 2021-07-27 at 05:25 PM.

  16. #616
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    I think that they(Bliz employees) are aware of what standard operating procedure is for companies accused of wrong doing but what they are saying is that that's not good enough. Many of them are likely women who have already experienced it or know someone who has and that sort of reply just doesn't cut it for them. It comes off as basically saying all of those people are lying about what they've experienced while working at Blizzard and Blizzard wanting to minimize their own culpability which means lack of acknowledging that there is a problem.
    It isn't even "minimising" in some cases. For example, that Townsend lady's letter... I can't tell if it's more disgusting than it is ridiculous, or the other way around. It basically reads as "Nothing like that can happen here because I am a woman and it hasn't happened to me! Actually, we're so perfect that nothing bad can even happen here! Now moving along!" - all of that while trying to drive the crowd away, desperately hoping that no one will notice the carfire just behind her.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    It isn't even "minimising" in some cases. For example, that Townsend lady's letter... I can't tell if it's more disgusting than it is ridiculous, or the other way around. It basically reads as "Nothing like that can happen here because I am a woman and it hasn't happened to me! Actually, we're so perfect that nothing bad can even happen here! Now moving along!" - all of that while trying to drive the crowd away, desperately hoping that no one will notice the carfire just behind her.
    Even more hysterical / disgusting when it comes from a woman in an executive position with the power to fire people who would have even tried, and who has only been with the company for 4 months. Acti/Blizz leadership is comic-book-level.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Meh. Yes it's bad that women had to deal with this. And blizzard should rightfully be sued.

    But this, "let's cancel everything" culture isn't good for anyone. It doesn't matter whether the transgression is great or minor everyones out for blood. Ya'll are just as bad as those you're cancelling. It's hilarious you don't realize it.

    Even funnier, that you've absolutely adopted a guilty until proven innocent mindset have no ability to perceive that you've done so, and will be absolutely fine with this until it turns on you.
    This is not an example of cancel culture. I am totally against cancel culture. Which is essentially censoring people who express opinions we don't like and trying to force them out of public view. What we are talking about here is a company which completely misran itself and allowed people with very toxic and harmful forms of behavior to run rampant through their company over a long period of time. To the point that their own former employees are admitting it and their current employees are calling Bliz out on their responses and attempts at trying to act as though this is a frivilous lawsuit. Their own company is revolting. We as consumers are perfectly within our rights to stop supporting such a company. This isn't cancel culture. This is simply standing up for your own principles if you choose to stop giving them money. This isn't a single person that people dislike and want to censor from their reality(which I don't agree with). This is telling a large corporation to get its **** together and acknowledge how badly they ran their company.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    This is not an example of cancel culture. I am totally against cancel culture. Which is essentially censoring people who express opinions we don't like and trying to force them out of public view. What we are talking about here is a company which completely misran itself and allowed people with very toxic and harmful forms of behavior to run rampant through their company over a long period of time. To the point that their own former employees are admitting it and their current employees are calling Bliz out on their responses and attempts at trying to act as though this is a frivilous lawsuit. Their own company is revolting. We as consumers are perfectly within our rights to stop supporting such a company. This isn't cancel culture. This is simply standing up for your own principles if you choose to stop giving them money. This isn't a single person that people dislike and want to censor from their reality(which I don't agree with). This is telling a large corporation to get its **** together and acknowledge how badly they ran their company.
    Just as bad - because you have no way of knowing who enabled this in leadership and rank and file. Now, ALL of blizzard is being painted as a demon, when in reality it was like upper/middle management exclusively.

    Painting with a broad brush, without all of the facts, is just as bad as painting with a small brush. Granted we will have the facts after the case when evidence is presented, but until then it's absolutely speculation and hearsay.

  20. #620

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