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  1. #1

    Woah; the legendary crafting system is extremely offensive to new/returning crafters

    If you enter or re-enter the game now for the first time in this expansion or after a long hiatus: you're gonna face a situation that you need to spend HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of gold just to get the first few ranks and then you make ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on the auction house while you level those first ranks.

    The technical reason that it is completely broken and the proof that I'm right is that if you entered the expansion during the launch and did that crafting for the first couple of weeks you could make MULTIPLE MILLIONS with the ~3rd+ rank so it's a system that breaks the further you are from the launch.
    Last edited by epigramx; 2021-07-24 at 09:36 AM.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Offensive is a strong word. I'd go with frustrating and will leave you out of pocket. But that's about it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by exsanguinate View Post
    So you want it for free?
    It's not even a FREE MARKET. Blizzard SHOEHORNED there a vendor item (orboreal shard) that needs MULTIPLE MILLIONS burned to their npcs with absolutely 0 player interaction causing that cost due to true demand and supply.

    Hence: before you praise Blizzard about this "brilliant" system and before you troll others with "you want it for free?": first realize how the system works (shoehorned to be technically expensive by force).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Offensive is a strong word. I'd go with frustrating and will leave you out of pocket. But that's about it.
    It is offensive because it's real people (the devs) that designed it on purpose causing the problem to other people (the players). This isn't items that are expensive because of true supply and demand between players and other players; this is clearly shoehorned by the devs to be expensive by force. The reasons are obvious: a mat from a vendor costs millions to reach high ranks (orboreal shard) and of course to reach a high rank you need hundreds of crafts with the first few dozens of crafts worth approximately 0 on the ah.
    Last edited by epigramx; 2021-07-24 at 09:33 AM.

  5. #5
    It's cheaper to buy the higher ranked base piece, than to upgrade it per rank using a crafted item you bought each time.

  6. #6
    You missed one important part: vendor item also gets cheaper with rep.

    That means if player has played for a while, he's exalted with vendor and gets vendor item cheaper, thus he spends less on producing goods. Considering that vendor item is about half of price of item, that's a huge problem. Difference is in thousands of gold per crafted item.

    Yep, Blizzard royally screwed professions this expansion. Made them dull and punishes players for missing expansion start.
    "Those who can convince you to believe absurdities can convince you to commit atrocities." ~Voltaire
    I feel the above truly reflect what is happening in the US and its allies, or has been happening for some time.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    It's cheaper to buy the higher ranked base piece, than to upgrade it per rank using a crafted item you bought each time.
    It's still frustrating, because you can't make gold now that easily with it and after the launch it didn't even need that much intelligence to do it (apart maybe from those that made a few extra million by crafting high ranks the first ~5 days but those were very few anyway). That's why I put in the title "returning crafters" (I know if someone does not want to craft at all anyway: it's not a huge deal to them).

  8. #8
    Warchief Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exsanguinate View Post
    So you want it for free?
    I don't think it's that people want to train it for free, mostly that it's a needless money sink that no one asked for. It was OK during the start of the expansion when you could recoup costs, but now it's just an unnecessary black hole that leaves most players simply better off just buying from the AH (i.e.: it is essentially dead content for new players while still being actively developed).
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoDruid View Post
    You missed one important part: vendor item also gets cheaper with rep.

    That means if player has played for a while, he's exalted with vendor and gets vendor item cheaper, thus he spends less on producing goods. Considering that vendor item is about half of price of item, that's a huge problem. Difference is in thousands of gold per crafted item.

    Yep, Blizzard royally screwed professions this expansion. Made them dull and punishes players for missing expansion start.
    That does approximately nothing to the discussion. E.g. I levelled a new character now and after a few days it's ~112g and on exalted or a goblin it would be 100g. So who cares for a measly ~10% discount on only one of the mats: it's still extremely broken compared to the first weeks of the launch.

  10. #10
    or you just buy the item for your legendary and find other source of gold... i havent crafted single piece of basic legendary item and im fine...

    people whine so much about the smallest inconveniences its ridiculous...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    I don't think it's that people want to train it for free, mostly that it's a needless money sink that no one asked for. It was OK during the start of the expansion when you could recoup costs, but now it's just an unnecessary black hole that leaves most players simply better off just buying from the AH (i.e.: it is essentially dead content for new players while still being actively developed).
    It's very annoying even if you determine that it's worth buying the item, because you may be a crafter that knows there is a very small chance to make a big profit until the expansion is over but you can't be sure.
    And it's also extremely unfair that whoever had a high rank in the first week or month STILL makes millions from it and others are left holding their bags.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    or you just buy the item for your legendary and find other source of gold... i havent crafted single piece of basic legendary item and im fine...

    people whine so much about the smallest inconveniences its ridiculous...
    Newsflash: the game has crafters. I know that since you hate crafting: you don't give a shit since you buy the items anyway; as the expansiojn goes on: it's not going to be that expensive to YOU anyway.
    But it's extremely stupid as a system for anyone that crafts and likes to craft; they need MILLIONS to make the first few ranks and they make ZERO out of that process now; the early ones make tons.

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It's not even a FREE MARKET. Blizzard SHOEHORNED there a vendor item (orboreal shard) that needs MULTIPLE MILLIONS burned to their npcs with absolutely 0 player interaction causing that cost due to true demand and supply.

    Hence: before you praise Blizzard about this "brilliant" system and before you troll others with "you want it for free?": first realize how the system works (shoehorned to be technically expensive by force).

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    It is offensive because it's real people (the devs) that designed it on purpose causing the problem to other people (the players). This isn't items that are expensive because of true supply and demand between players and other players; this is clearly shoehorned by the devs to be expensive by force. The reasons are obvious: a mat from a vendor costs millions to reach high ranks (orboreal shard) and of course to reach a high rank you need hundreds of crafts with the first few dozens of crafts worth approximately 0 on the ah.
    Again, I disagree with offensive. Just frustrating. You aren't required to grind them all the max level. Also you're inflating the cost of Orboreal Shards. They're 125g each which can be reduced by rep. This means to reach level 4 it costs you 87,500g. To craft a level 4 it's 56,250g in shards.

    This is based on 8 shards for rank 1 to rank 2 x the 15 crafted items. 15,000. It's not bank breaking.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Newsflash: the game has crafters. I know that since you hate crafting: you don't give a shit since you buy the items anyway; as the expansiojn goes on: it's not going to be that expensive to YOU anyway.
    But it's extremely stupid as a system for anyone that crafts and likes to craft; they need MILLIONS to make the first few ranks and they make ZERO out of that process now; the early ones make tons.
    newsflash: UNDERSTANDING of system doesnt mean i hate crafting, i craft things daily, mainly potions, but some armor (as my main is blacksmith) too, yet i havent crafted single legendary base item, precisely bcs i knew i have few weeks at best to get the money back or ill loose craploads of money as the price will PLUMMET, as it happens with everything at the begining of every single expansion (and patch in smaller sense)

    if you "love" to craft bland items, which legendary bases are, sucks for you, but its in no way necessary or unavoidable (you can STILL make gold from crafting, for example the new 230ilvl pieces) so either PLAY THE GODDAMN GAME, or dont complain if you miss on new expansion bonanza, its 8th expansion, crafting earn craploads of gold every single expansion IN THE BEGINING, when even trade mats are being sold for obscene amounts of money, if you havent figured that yet after so many years you are not capable to use it to your advantage anyway, so just buy your legendary base and be glad you didnt play in begining, bcs with your lack of understanding of basic economics you would loose your pants more likely than made a profit...

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Ladey Gags's Avatar
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    It’s literally there to push people to spend money on WoW tokens. It’s such a blatantly obvious P2W (inb4 AHUUDDUURRR AKKKSHUUALLLYY ITS NOT PAYTOWINNN AHUURRDDUUURRR) mechanism that I’m surprised there isn’t more outrage, but considering retail WoW’s playerbase today that’s not saying much.

    Its only purpose is for blizzard to make money on people who don’t grind gold (aka most players). Expect more player power goldsinks like this in the future.
    Last edited by Ladey Gags; 2021-07-24 at 10:02 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Again, I disagree with offensive. Just frustrating. You aren't required to grind them all the max level. Also you're inflating the cost of Orboreal Shards. They're 125g each which can be reduced by rep. This means to reach level 4 it costs you 87,500g. To craft a level 4 it's 56,250g in shards.

    This is based on 8 shards for rank 1 to rank 2 x the 15 crafted items. 15,000. It's not bank breaking.
    It's the big picture that contributes to making it offensive. You know the probability they did a mistake in what is "fun" is ~0. It's very likely the true reason of the cost is heavily influenced by them making gold from people buying tokens to buy gold with real money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    newsflash: UNDERSTANDING of system doesnt mean i hate crafting, i craft things daily, mainly potions, but some armor (as my main is blacksmith) too, yet i havent crafted single legendary base item, precisely bcs i knew i have few weeks at best to get the money back or ill loose craploads of money as the price will PLUMMET, as it happens with everything at the begining of every single expansion (and patch in smaller sense)

    if you "love" to craft bland items, which legendary bases are, sucks for you, but its in no way necessary or unavoidable (you can STILL make gold from crafting, for example the new 230ilvl pieces) so either PLAY THE GODDAMN GAME, or dont complain if you miss on new expansion bonanza, its 8th expansion, crafting earn craploads of gold every single expansion IN THE BEGINING, when even trade mats are being sold for obscene amounts of money, if you havent figured that yet after so many years you are not capable to use it to your advantage anyway, so just buy your legendary base and be glad you didnt play in begining, bcs with your lack of understanding of basic economics you would loose your pants more likely than made a profit...
    It's not even that simple (financially) which makes it confusing on top. The probability of going under by starting to craft now is high: but there is a chance to still end up with profit in the long them; but you don't know that for sure and you know whoever started near the launch they have an unfair advantage anyway (which is common in real life but unfair advantages in competitive gaming are stupid (because why play unfair competitive games if I can play the "game of life" to see unfairness?)
    And it's also annoying because you know this isn't just an innocent mistake by a very high probability; those people make money by people buying tokens in order to buy gold with real cash; so the probability this happened by accident is extremely low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    It’s literally there to push people to spend money on WoW tokens. It’s such a blatantly obvious P2W (inb4 AHUUDDUURRR AKKKSHUUALLLYY ITS NOT PAYTOWINNN AHUURRDDUUURRR) mechanism that I’m surprised there isn’t more outrage, but considering retail WoW’s playerbase today that’s not saying much.

    Its only purpose is for blizzard to make money on people who don’t grind gold (aka most players). Expect more player power goldsinks like this in the future.
    It's extremely unlikely that you are wrong. This system is both annoying/frustrating and unfair on top that it's extremely unlikely to be just a mistake. Since you know they make money with the tokens: the probability of this being just a mistake is very low.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    It's the big picture that contributes to making it offensive. You know the probability they did a mistake in what is "fun" is ~0. It's very likely the true reason of the cost is heavily influenced by them making gold from people buying tokens to buy gold with real money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    It’s literally there to push people to spend money on WoW tokens. It’s such a blatantly obvious P2W (inb4 AHUUDDUURRR AKKKSHUUALLLYY ITS NOT PAYTOWINNN AHUURRDDUUURRR) mechanism that I’m surprised there isn’t more outrage, but considering retail WoW’s playerbase today that’s not saying much.

    Its only purpose is for blizzard to make money on people who don’t grind gold (aka most players). Expect more player power goldsinks like this in the future.
    I really don't follow how a vendor mat for crafting equals selling WoW tokens. That's a false equivalence. Vendor mats for crafting have been around long before WoW tokens. 2 off the top of my head are the mats required to make a Vial of the Sands and the Mechano Hog. People have been buying mats from Vendors since vanilla. Token's are not relevant to this discussion.

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Yes, they are expensive. I bought mine for 250k. At the beginning it was for 500k. Prices will drop with time. So for now I don’t craft any new legendaries.
    #SaveAlgalon

  18. #18
    but they just want players to buy token-gold to be able to afford crafting

  19. #19
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    If you enter or re-enter the game now for the first time in this expansion or after a long hiatus: you're gonna face a situation that you need to spend HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of gold just to get the first few ranks and then you make ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on the auction house while you level those first ranks.

    The technical reason that it is completely broken and the proof that I'm right is that if you entered the expansion during the launch and did that crafting for the first couple of weeks you could make MULTIPLE MILLIONS with the ~3rd+ rank so it's a system that breaks the further you are from the launch.
    Wouldn't call that offensive but sadly, there is a cost of taking a break from the game, unlike RPGs, MMORPGs keep the story and world running, and thus things are gonna change while you are gone. And with this version of legendaries where you need to upgrade them, you'll feel even further behind, unlike previous where it just dropped, or you had it from a questline. And for the prices of items, there is always the method of you obtaining your own without a cost except for work.
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  20. #20
    What's this bullshit about "you can't easily make gold"?

    I've made 400k in the past 2.5 weeks, without much strenuous effort. I don't plan on bothering with a Rank 5/6 Legendary until I absolutely need it, Rank4 is perfectly fine for all 3 of my classes right now and I didn't pay more than about 20k each.

    This system isn't "offensive" at all, you're just wanting something to complain about because you'll explode if you don't have anything to whine about for more than 3 days.

    eta: On my server the rank 5s have started dropping below 100k now, with rank 6s not that far behind. I don't consider that to be particularly extreme amounts of golds. Even just doing callings / korthia adds up very quickly, particularly if you're skinning/mining/herbing along the way. The game practically THROWS gold at you, now. Literally nothing requires "grinding" gold.
    Last edited by Ryzeth; 2021-07-24 at 10:50 AM.

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