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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    I disagree with that statement as well. You might want to open your mind a bit and see the world outside your bubble.
    You're the one living in a bubble. My exposure to some of the nastiest people and the fact that I could live far more comfortably if I became the same compromising my own ideals showed me what I never want to become.
    You played oh-so-safely in the gray zones that you've forgotten black and white exists.

  2. #122
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    I disagree with that statement as well. You might want to open your mind a bit and see the world outside your bubble.
    Society places pressures on people.

    How you react to that pressure, that's personal character.

    This is particularly true with incels, because what makes them undateable in the first place is that they're misogynistic assholes, and women can kinda tell. The "misogynistic asshole" bit came first.


  3. #123
    Yeah...when a guy grabs a woman by the panties and says; "Give me some of that," or cups her ass and says; "Fits perfectly," and instead of reflecting why his sales pitch isn't working, but concludes women need to die in the thousands....but wait, this is "society's" fault?

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Society places pressures on people.

    How you react to that pressure, that's personal character.

    This is particularly true with incels, because what makes them undateable in the first place is that they're misogynistic assholes, and women can kinda tell. The "misogynistic asshole" bit came first.
    Are we born as "misogynistic asshole" or do we become it ?

  5. #125
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Are we born as "misogynistic asshole" or do we become it ?
    You're not born as anything.

    But here's the problem with "nature v. nurture"; it denies personal agency. Which is what I'm pointing at.

    Nobody is born a misogynistic asshole, but nobody is turned into a misogynistic asshole by the world they live in. They choose to be misogynistic assholes. And this is an ongoing, continuous decision that they can change at any moment, if they care to.


  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You're not born as anything.

    But here's the problem with "nature v. nurture"; it denies personal agency. Which is what I'm pointing at.

    Nobody is born a misogynistic asshole, but nobody is turned into a misogynistic asshole by the world they live in. They choose to be misogynistic assholes. And this is an ongoing, continuous decision that they can change at any moment, if they care to.
    What is amazing with you is that you always present things as if it was easy. Changing one character is so easy according to you.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Are we born as "misogynistic asshole" or do we become it ?
    In this regard we make our choices. Just because we don't like what we perceive as our options will never justify beating and killing women.

  8. #128
    nOt AlL IncElS!

    /MMO-C poster, ca 2021

    Yes, all Incels. Same as yes, all f-ing idiots joining ISIS' cause.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    In this regard we make our choices. Just because we don't like what we perceive as our options will never justify beating and killing women.
    We do agree but we were speaking about the "misogynistic asshole" as you do not need to be an incel to be one. "Incel" is a step further down that road.

    The choices we make are usually defined or sum up by our experience, relation, education, etc...

  10. #130
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    What is amazing with you is that you always present things as if it was easy. Changing one character is so easy according to you.
    Where did I say it was easy?

    I said it was simple.

    Lifting a really big rock is simple. It isn't easy.

    Though in this case, not being a misogynist asshole any more is pretty damned simple. You just need to start with a little personal accountability and self-recognition. The reason they generally don't change is because they don't want to change. Pretty much the moment they do want to change, they'll find it really isn't that hard at all.

    Bigotry isn't like an addiction. It isn't your body forcing you to want a thing you know you shouldn't have. It isn't even a mental addiction. It's just someone being a bad person, and lacking empathy for other human beings. Sometimes, you really can just blame someone for being a shitty human being.


  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Where did I say it was easy?

    I said it was simple.

    Lifting a really big rock is simple. It isn't easy.

    Though in this case, not being a misogynist asshole any more is pretty damned simple. You just need to start with a little personal accountability and self-recognition. The reason they generally don't change is because they don't want to change. Pretty much the moment they do want to change, they'll find it really isn't that hard at all.
    Yeah, I reckon you have no idea what you are talking about. Changing one personnality or character is neither easy or simple.

  12. #132
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    The choices we make are usually defined or sum up by our experience, relation, education, etc...
    I really do wonder why you're so eager to deny personal accountability.


  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    We do agree but we were speaking about the "misogynistic asshole" as you do not need to be an incel to be one. "Incel" is a step further down that road. The choices we make are usually defined or sum up by our experience, relation, education, etc...
    Be that as it may "personal responsibility" is a factor.

    And for those blaming "society" when has murdering a woman because "she wouldn't go out with me," ever been an option in most western societies?

  14. #134
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Yeah, I reckon you have no idea what you are talking about. Changing one personnality or character is neither easy or simple.
    If you look into it, you'll find that the only real impediment appears to be motivation.

    This is why a lot of homophobic parents, on finding out their kid is gay, face a crisis moment, and refuse to stop loving their kid, and that's all it takes. They start to see what assholes they've been and how baseless their bigotry was. Not all bigoted parents, obviously; some prefer their petty bigotries over their children.

    You can apply the same consideration to racist parents and kids who get married to someone of a different ethnic group, or religiously bigoted and kids marrying outside the faith, and so on. When they're offered a simple choice, they make that choice, and that one choice generally completely changes their position overall. Because it really is that simple.


  15. #135
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molliewoof View Post
    Never understood why they blame women rather than work on themselves. Can women be in the incel group, presumably they can be involuntarily celibut?

    Suppose I'd have googled if I was anything more than vaguely interested
    Actually, the first incel site, and the term itself was coined by a women back in the 90s

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you look into it, you'll find that the only real impediment appears to be motivation.

    This is why a lot of homophobic parents, on finding out their kid is gay, face a crisis moment, and refuse to stop loving their kid, and that's all it takes. They start to see what assholes they've been and how baseless their bigotry was. Not all bigoted parents, obviously; some prefer their petty bigotries over their children.

    You can apply the same consideration to racist parents and kids who get married to someone of a different ethnic group, or religiously bigoted and kids marrying outside the faith, and so on. When they're offered a simple choice, they make that choice, and that one choice generally completely changes their position overall. Because it really is that simple.
    That simple but not that easy. But you do you.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    What is amazing with you is that you always present things as if it was easy. Changing one character is so easy according to you.
    Is it really that hard to NOT be an asshole?

    Are we going to give people passes on shit they do because "it's hard to NOT be an asshole?"

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Is it really that hard to NOT be an asshole?

    Are we going to give people passes on shit they do because "it's hard to NOT be an asshole?"
    Who said anything about giving people passes ? Those people do not need passes but help (professional help).

    And yes, it is hard to not be an asshole when your whole education revolve around that, your personnal experience and so on.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Actually, the first incel site, and the term itself was coined by a women back in the 90s
    Lots of people have limited social skills. Some acknowledge it, get a hobby and carry on. They might not be happy but at least they're managing and not hurting anyone. They're still incels.

    A few people can't acknowledge that they're the problem and join the Elliot Rodgers Death Cult.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Who said anything about giving people passes ? Those people do not need passes but help (professional help).
    Fair enough. I would disagree that they need help, depending on their circumstances. People with legit mental issues, yes absolutely. Assholes who are just assholes? Absolutely not. They're functioning adults and there are laws, societal norms, expectations, etc... that SCREAM that their behavior is not OK, yet they still persist at it. They don't need help, they need accountability, the kind they apparently didn't receive as children growing up but now that their adults that accountability is legal in nature.

    That said, most people like this would refuse any kind of "help" provided to them. People who want to change, change. They might reach out for help while attempting to change but THEY are the ones working on themselves. That's the only way change works is when it comes form within (I know super cliche, but it's true). Trying to force change on someone who doesn't want to doesn't work.

    And yes, it is hard to not be an asshole when your whole education revolve around that, your personnal experience and so on.
    I vehemently disagree. Being an asshole and not being an asshole is a choice, it's not that hard to choose to NOT be an asshole, to not say that horrible thing, to not do that horrible thing, etc.... That was supposed to be a rhetorical, question too.

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