Alternative healer actions

[kraator]

Hi all

Long time healer here, been playing since US beta and raided some cutting edge on/off since MoP and did my share of Challenge Mode / Mythic +. Focus was always playing as a healer and always loved it, even though there are some downsides to being a healer for a lot of players since the introduction of time limited content such as M+. A large group of healers (see the topic Do-Healers-have-to-DPS-now-during-down-time-in-between-heals) would like to focus on healing more, but are forced to maximize DPS to get through boss timers in raids and more importantly the time pressure in M+. There is always some downtime in between heals / stuns / interrupt / dispells etc, so if you dont do DPS, then you are being lazy and holding the party back.

So I thought, why not give the healer actions more impact on such timers. For now focussing on M+ timers, for example I was thinking about (ofc no tuned numbers are used here):

- Dispells add +5 sec to the timer
- Keeping a player on 95% hp slows the timer down by 5%, so all party at 95% slows the timer by 25%
- Using a defensive cooldown succesfully (ie migitated x hp or prevented a death) adds 20 sec to the timer
- ...?

Imo this system let the healers do what they love most and gives them an even bigger incentive to play well (ie dispelling). Now I know this system is vulnerable to exploit, but that should be solvable with tuning?

What does the highly intelligent MMO champ community think about this?

[Twdft]

My prediction: you will still be asked to do as much dps as possible on top of dispelling etc

[kraator]

My prediction: you will still be asked to do as much dps as possible on top of dispelling etc

But if the tuning is so that DPSing is a time loss?

[Voidwielder]

But if the tuning is so that DPSing is a time loss?

Impossible with the scaling and ever increasing item levels and their near constant fidgeting of Class/Covenant numbers.

I do agree that being a healer in M+ can be a bit... eh, unrewarding in some sense. DPS get abilities that tangibly increase their output while we have to be content with passives (shared with the rest) and occasional mana returns (Pride, Tormented) but our top play is simply seen as ''just healer doing healer things''. While a top tier tank can literally make or break a run, those who have played with both the average and top tier tanks early in the patch will know what I'm talking about. You know, you see it, you feel it.

[Enter Name Here]

sadly, the timed nature makes every action that is not damage a wasted gcd.

thus, the only thing to prevent healers from being required to dps is to make the dungeon ignore all the damage they would do while still being useful for dps-healers. meaning the mobs wouldn't lose any hp but the heals would heal as if they did.

[Voidwielder]

sadly, the timed nature makes every action that is not damage a wasted gcd.

thus, the only thing to prevent healers from being required to dps is to make the dungeon ignore all the damage they would do while still being useful for dps-healers. meaning the mobs wouldn't lose any hp but the heals would heal as if they did.

I'm not sure what they can do about this, really. I would hate, absolutely hate to lose the ability to DPS in a run even though by and large, that's not what makes or breaks 15-18 runs (which is what I do). I just feel good finding those little moments, weaving in DoTs and other DPS abilities between the usual business. For me, it's personal pleasure knowing that I can do it and do it reasonably well.

[neocount]

I'm not sure what they can do about this, really. I would hate, absolutely hate to lose the ability to DPS in a run even though by and large, that's not what makes or breaks 15-18 runs (which is what I do). I just feel good finding those little moments, weaving in DoTs and other DPS abilities between the usual business. For me, it's personal pleasure knowing that I can do it and do it reasonably well.

I'm the opposite. I enjoy healing most when I'm able to heal through things that make the tank and DPS go, "Oh wow, I have no idea how you were able to keep me alive through that." Those are the moments I chase. I absolutely hate now having to contribute DPS to a run. Don't misunderstand me, I do it since it's pretty much required, but I don't like it. That new style has got me healing less and playing my DPS toons more.

[Enter Name Here]

I'm not sure what they can do about this, really. I would hate, absolutely hate to lose the ability to DPS in a run even though by and large, that's not what makes or breaks 15-18 runs (which is what I do). I just feel good finding those little moments, weaving in DoTs and other DPS abilities between the usual business. For me, it's personal pleasure knowing that I can do it and do it reasonably well.

you're absolutely right.
my suggestion would gut everyone who likes to weave in damage for whatever reason. be it downtimes during healing or the challenge of being able to do so. unfortunately, there's no perfect solution to make everyone happy in this.

[Voidwielder]

I'm the opposite. I enjoy healing most when I'm able to heal through things that make the tank and DPS go, "Oh wow, I have no idea how you were able to keep me alive through that." Those are the moments I chase. I absolutely hate now having to contribute DPS to a run. Don't misunderstand me, I do it since it's pretty much required, but I don't like it. That new style has got me healing less and playing my DPS toons more.

The thing is, in the average +30 minute M+ runs, those moments are rare (unless you are doing some crazy key where the scaling goes in to one shot territory). If the group knows it's shit, you should have all the necessary tools to deal with those ''oh god oh fuck'' moments. And in between those pulls, be it trash or boss... things are relatively calm.

[saixilein]

Woukd love that, hating to do dps as healer cause im. Playing healer to heal my party.

Also i have the feeling that most bosses designed around high dps spikes where u pop cds and top the group, after that u have alot of downtime, where u can keep uo the raid with hots. Even tank these days dont take real dmg (in raids). Hots and selfheal are enough, mostly.

I like your idea.

When i playing healer in raids i wanna focus on heal.

Feels like these days CDs are much stronger und sustainheal are pretty low or manahungry as fck.

I mean as a monk healer im more struggling with keep mana instead of keep up the party. Like if the healers these are designed around manamanagement and doing dps.

Ofc manamanagement should be important, but it feeps like much to important. Not fun if i cant use all my spells, cause if i use them to often im oom after 1 minute. Keep up hots, use cds in the right moment and do dmg... That is MW monk right now

[Garymorilix]

God damn it...

"A large group of healers would like to focus on healing more..."
-Firstly, show me this large group.
-Secondly: HOW?

Many people told this many times but THERE ARE TIMES WHERE LITERALLY NO DAMAGE IS HAPPENING.
Also, dps and tank also have defensive cooldowns that can NEGATE the need for heals totally.

[kraator]

Woukd love that, hating to do dps as healer cause im. Playing healer to heal my party.

Also i have the feeling that most bosses designed around high dps spikes where u pop cds and top the group, after that u have alot of downtime, where u can keep uo the raid with hots. Even tank these days dont take real dmg (in raids). Hots and selfheal are enough, mostly.

I like your idea.

When i playing healer in raids i wanna focus on heal.

Feels like these days CDs are much stronger und sustainheal are pretty low or manahungry as fck.

I mean as a monk healer im more struggling with keep mana instead of keep up the party. Like if the healers these are designed around manamanagement and doing dps.

Ofc manamanagement should be important, but it feeps like much to important. Not fun if i cant use all my spells, cause if i use them to often im oom after 1 minute. Keep up hots, use cds in the right moment and do dmg... That is MW monk right now

I also experienced this, in (mythic) raids I'm also dpsing alot, which causes me to save alot of mana, which in turn makes mana management almost not existent. Always liked mana management and I miss it

[Voidwielder]

I also experienced this, in (mythic) raids I'm also dpsing alot, which causes me to save alot of mana, which in turn makes mana management almost not existent. Always liked mana management and I miss it

Roll Mistweaver.

[kraator]

God damn it...

"A large group of healers would like to focus on healing more..."
-Firstly, show me this large group.

Have you read the other topic?

-Secondly: HOW?

Many people told this many times but THERE ARE TIMES WHERE LITERALLY NO DAMAGE IS HAPPENING.
Also, dps and tank also have defensive cooldowns that can NEGATE the need for heals totally.

So you are saying the healer role for most groups is not needed anymore?

- - - Updated - - -

Roll Mistweaver.

Attached to my holy paladin / holy priest / resto shaman

[Garymorilix]

Have you read the other topic?

- - - Updated - - -



Attached to my holy paladin / holy priest / resto shaman

1) I even commented, crazy right? Have you read how many people told that healers don't need to heal all the time?

2) So are you saying you're racist? Is this some kind of out of season Jordan Peterson reference?
What is the correlation here?
You literally cannot disprove or deny what I said because it's true, especially in M+.

[Dazu]

Even in vanilla and TBC healers usually did some dps if there wasnt healing needed. I remember in Strat and Scholo having priests SWP and Holy fire or smite mobs, CC etc. Its part of your classes kit. Sure they did bugger all damage back then, but what else are you going to do? Sit and twiddle thumbs for 15-20 seconds.

The only way to remove healer damage from being relevant IMO, is to make it so their damage spells are not a good use of a skill, likely by making them do negligible damage. So now you will inconvenience players who enjoy that style. The one possibility which might work is causing heals to do some kind of damage pulse like a reverse of atonement. Could class theme it still. Say druids grant thorns to their heal recipients spraying nearby enemies for X + 10% of healing received over the previous 5 seconds etc. Shamans could grant a fire shield, priests could be holy bolts bouncing out, paladins could grant holy shield or some kind of consecration, monks could invoke green dragon breath etc. That way you get the damage expected now but its a by product of them doing the healing role. Make normal damage spells less attractive for group content in comparison (less mana efficient possibly).

Id prefer giving every class having a atonement style damage spell to heal. So you are actively healing during quiet times still by doing the damage thats more expected these days.
Your suggestions sound good in theory, problem I see is healers have different utility and cleanses, plus some debuffs are less valuable to cleanse. You risk creating 'favoured' healers for certain dungeons or raids because of the more common debuffs found etc. Also keeping classes above a certain % greatly favours certain classes such as absorbs and HoTs as they can keep it rolling over everyone, whereas classes who rely more on hard casting would constantly drop out. All that being said, there should be more reward and relevance to healers utility and their correct use of utility should make more of a difference to the run than their dps.

[Shedaar]

My prediction: you will still be asked to do as much dps as possible on top of dispelling etc

So true - chuckled hard

[kraator]

Your suggestions sound good in theory, problem I see is healers have different utility and cleanses, plus some debuffs are less valuable to cleanse. You risk creating 'favoured' healers for certain dungeons or raids because of the more common debuffs found etc.

But isnt this already the case now with dps? So high dps classes are more favorable, like paladin or disc?

[DechCJC]

That seems like it would just make healing substantially easier for no good reasons.

Dispelling: Healers don't ignore dispels at it is: They just prioritize what's necessary for the use of a global.

Keeping players at 95% hp: Knowing when it's safe to keep someone at 50% hp and when you need to top them, again, adds a skill cap to healing.

Using a defensive CD optimally for bonus time: So, what, u just tell the tank to not use defensives so that you can use yours? Sounds like a nightmare to pug. Most good groups use CDs optimally anyway.

Honestly, it's just not necessary. Groups are always going to expect the same thing: That you do everything that you can to make the dungeon as quick and clean as possible. This is why DPS use defensives and heal occasionally if necessary, it's a group effort.

Everything you suggested simply makes healing unnecessarily easier; Healers do all of these things already when played well and when necessary. There is no world where the mana regen exists for a healer to be constantly pumping heals through-out a M+ with the tuning that is suggested here and for raid balance to exist. Healers are always going to be expected to DPS whenever there's a window to do so, and why wouldn't they? It's impossible to balance it so that there is no time at all to DPS whilst also making mana anything but borderline infite.

[-Zo-]

From a Mistweaver, this sounds like busy work. Dispelling an important debuff, topping the group quickly, saving with defensives, etc are their own reward. But I might be biased. I have no idea how some other healing classes do damage, so maybe that's what needs attention, if it's clunky or unsatisfying.