Torghast Gems ruined it.

[Revamp Man]

Does floor 9 give a chance for a 252 conduit from vaults?

yes
i pulled one yesterday

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Its rng in general, if you're melee and one of the torments are doom conduits, best would be to leave and come back later when torments reset. I mean, i guess it also depends on gear but running layer 12 as 220 warr with conduits + reflective shield and that one when they get damage boost at lower hp...i couldnt stop raging at the game lol. It was impossible. Also depends what anima powers u get etc.

i got 5 gems literally because of the op monk power

[Devilyaki]

I dislike is as well, hidden bonuses, stupid time run. Not everything need a timer, not everything need a epeen meter. Really has made it less fun. Way to make epic powers useless since not taking them id s a bonus….

[Free]

I dislike is as well, hidden bonuses, stupid time run. Not everything need a timer, not everything need a epeen meter. Really has made it less fun. Way to make epic powers useless since not taking them id s a bonus….

ignore that bonus and grab epic powers

[KaPe]

It's very reminiscent of Horrific Visions, imo. The fact that there's even a talent tree to fill out to make it easier further enforces that similarity. I've still managed to 5-star when taking Epic powers, though. You just have to make the score up elsewhere which...isn't exactly intuitive either but hopefully will be something Blizzard iterates on in 9.1.5 (if that happens).

In a way, it's worse than Visions. These were fairly straightforward - you knew exactly what you were against, there was very little randomness and you could prepare for everything. Victory conditions were also pretty clear, with no obscure bonuses. One part that was similar to Torghast were random sanity potions - but otherwise, you could pre-plan almost everything.

Either way, it's a shame that this system wasn't there since the beginning. It'd be much easier to learn it from layer 1, rather than 9 - which is fairly difficult for the majority of population and not a good place to introduce entirely new system.

[rhorle]

In a way, it's worse than Visions. These were fairly straightforward - you knew exactly what you were against, there was very little randomness and you could prepare for everything. Victory conditions were also pretty clear, with no obscure bonuses. One part that was similar to Torghast were random sanity potions - but otherwise, you could pre-plan almost everything.

Torghast is still staright forward though. You do the same thing each run. Kill as much as you can, do all the stuff, use empower on elites, do it as fast as possible. You only really need to start paying attention to the "obscure bonuses" when you don't have the gear for the layer. Layer 9 is 208 and layer 12 is 252. Most people are doing content above their characters power.

[Jonnusthegreat]

It would be better with a HUD similar to M+ that tells you how much 'stuff' you have. For Torghast, it should show the bonuses still available and the bonuses you've failed.

[Crimson Spears]

Torghast is still staright forward though. You do the same thing each run. Kill as much as you can, do all the stuff, use empower on elites, do it as fast as possible. You only really need to start paying attention to the "obscure bonuses" when you don't have the gear for the layer. Layer 9 is 208 and layer 12 is 252. Most people are doing content above their characters power.

Perhaps but its hard to give any praise to choreghast. Even at high gear levels its 20 odd minutes of murdering trash. At this point until I see a mage tower again I don't want to see them experiment with anymore failed systems dragged along the expansion like a swollen smelly corpse by locking a needed currency behind it.

If they must do so. I would at least like to see them have the decency to let the currency drop from other sources as well to honestly see if their terrible idea can carry itself.

[Mardux]

Its rng in general, if you're melee and one of the torments are doom conduits, best would be to leave and come back later when torments reset. I mean, i guess it also depends on gear but running layer 12 as 220 warr with conduits + reflective shield and that one when they get damage boost at lower hp...i couldnt stop raging at the game lol. It was impossible. Also depends what anima powers u get etc.

Why? Was there something stopping you from not standing in the tiny circle when it goes off?

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I dislike is as well, hidden bonuses, stupid time run. Not everything need a timer, not everything need a epeen meter. Really has made it less fun. Way to make epic powers useless since not taking them id s a bonus….

Then don't treat it as a timed thing? You still get the number of cinders whether you take 2 hours and 40 deaths as you do if you only want to spend 15 minutes in there and not dying.

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Perhaps but its hard to give any praise to choreghast. Even at high gear levels its 20 odd minutes of murdering trash. At this point until I see a mage tower again I don't want to see them experiment with anymore failed systems dragged along the expansion like a swollen smelly corpse by locking a needed currency behind it.

If they must do so. I would at least like to see them have the decency to let the currency drop from other sources as well to honestly see if their terrible idea can carry itself.

You just described keystones. Except keys are even more monotonous and tend to give less rewards.

[Alroxas]

You just described keystones. Except keys are even more monotonous and tend to give less rewards.

Less rewards? That seems inaccurate considering you can get up to ilv 252 gear from running high M+. Running a layer 12 gives you a fraction of the soul cinders you need to upgrade/make a legendary at rank 6.

If we look at just soul cinders -> rank 6 legendary time frame = 6 weeks (180 soul cinders per wing, 2 wings per week = 360 soul cinder / week and 1650 soul cinder cost for a legendary rank 6)

Versus running 1x M+15 each week for 6 weeks, you would getting 6 ilv 252 gear pieces versus 1 r6 legendary. That doesn't seem to be "less rewarding"

[Swnem]

yes
i pulled one yesterday

Interesting. I will give that a go.

But, you know... the fact this is so unintuitive and unclear really sends the point home that as usual, they didn't really think about it very well.

[Kehego]

This is 5mask visions/mage tower all again.

Game is fine, learn to play.

[Revamp Man]

Interesting. I will give that a go.

But, you know... the fact these is so unintuitive and unclear really sends the point home that as usual, they didn't really think about it very well.

The fact is if you aim for 100% completion you get an extra 40 points just from the extra stuff
The treasures
Avoiding traps
Bursting elites
Breaking pots
Puzzles
Rescuing people
All get points and all of that is shown on the final score

The big thing is that after you get layer 12 it’s all just for extra stuff which a vast majority of the people complaining wouldn’t use anyways since if they aim for a 5 star layer 12 they will look into a few things
Easiest wing
Best blessings
Best powers
Where to empower

[AboikoS]

Why? Was there something stopping you from not standing in the tiny circle when it goes off?

What? These conduits are ridiculously rng, they spawn randomly and the beam they release also spawns in a random direction (so u can get literally insta hit the moment it appears) and it basically takes 70% of your hp in a single hit thus it basically forces u to run away from the boss when this crap spawns, not being able dps him while he constantly hits you for 10-20% hp with his melee or even worse when said boss/elite casts a lot and he sits at the conduits free casting and you're not able to hit him cuz you'll instantly die from the beam all while he free casts everything on you. Not to mention i had reflective shields at the same time and when i kited the conduit and finally had some uptime to dps boss he just had reflective shield up LOL. Dude it was literally impossible to complete, it wouldnt be possible even if i had full mythic gear from SoD...

I was really tilted at the game because it just wasnt possible to do, and i consider myself better than average player skill-wise.

[Kehego]

What? These conduits are ridiculously rng, they spawn randomly and the beam they release also spawns in a random direction (so u can get literally insta hit the moment it appears) and it basically takes 70% of your hp in a single hit thus it basically forces u to run away from the boss when this crap spawns, not being able dps him while he constantly hits you for 10-20% hp with his melee or even worse when said boss/elite casts a lot and he sits at the conduits free casting and you're not able to hit him cuz you'll instantly die from the beam all while he free casts everything on you. Not to mention i had reflective shields at the same time and when i kited the conduit and finally had some uptime to dps boss he just had reflective shield up LOL. Dude it was literally impossible to complete, it wouldnt be possible even if i had full mythic gear from SoD...

I was really tilted at the game because it just wasnt possible to do, and i consider myself better than average player skill-wise.

meanwhile i flawlessed my 12s at 235 itemlevel

[ohwell]

For me, it always spawns in the midst of elite or boss fights. I can actually predict like 90% of the spawns, just based on how inconvenient it would be for it to spawn.

Yeah it's hands down one of the worst torments. Also Thanatophobia is broken and triggers most often at 60 or 50% which is nonsense. Other than those 2, any other torment is honestly fine.

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It would be better with a HUD similar to M+ that tells you how much 'stuff' you have. For Torghast, it should show the bonuses still available and the bonuses you've failed.

I would agree on this as well as a completion percent. I'm FAIRLY certain that "you are hunted" group counts, but sometimes I never run into it.

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Torghast is still staright forward though. You do the same thing each run. Kill as much as you can, do all the stuff, use empower on elites, do it as fast as possible. You only really need to start paying attention to the "obscure bonuses" when you don't have the gear for the layer. Layer 9 is 208 and layer 12 is 252. Most people are doing content above their characters power.

I'm not even close to 252 and I've gotten flawless on every 12 and just need to hop on and do it for these 2. Those recommendations are so absurdly high it's not even funny.

[Kehego]

Yeah it's hands down one of the worst torments. Also Thanatophobia is broken and triggers most often at 60 or 50% which is nonsense. Other than those 2, any other torment is honestly fine.

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I would agree on this as well as a completion percent. I'm FAIRLY certain that "you are hunted" group counts, but sometimes I never run into it.

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I'm not even close to 252 and I've gotten flawless on every 12 and just need to hop on and do it for these 2. Those recommendations are so absurdly high it's not even funny.

I think the reqs are high to stop the bad kids from attempting it and crying tears of blood.
Didnt work.

[AboikoS]

meanwhile i flawlessed my 12s at 235 itemlevel

I did too at ~220, that wasnt my point cuz it really isnt that big of a flex lol. The point was how RNG this whole thing is, all depends on torments, powers, wings, what class u play etc.

[kamuimac]

meanwhile i flawlessed my 12s at 235 itemlevel

99,9% that you play tank .

[KaPe]

Yeah it's hands down one of the worst torments. Also Thanatophobia is broken and triggers most often at 60 or 50% which is nonsense. Other than those 2, any other torment is honestly fine.

Both Blessing and Torments need a balancing pass. Thanatophobia can be a death sentence when combined with CC capable mobs - you'll get fear ->thanatophobia -> fear. No diminishing returns at all. Compare that to "easily avoidable void zones" or "tiny damage bonus on elites", there's no contest.

Same with Blessings, "first three elites are weaker?" If you die that early to your first elite, you might as well restart anyway, wasted blessing slot. Compare that to triple damage bonus from freed souls, constant damage aura or instant kill chance on elites (which is a direct upgrade to the "weaken three elites") Most of them are pretty good, but some could use a tune up.

[Revamp Man]

I think the reqs are high to stop the bad kids from attempting it and crying tears of blood.
Didnt work.

or it was to make them feel good about doing it in lower gear