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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Mainly talking to late Gen X early millennial (maybe late millennial too).

    I say this having been on the internet a lot and watching and hearing people behaviour over their beloved childhood.

    I am 38 years old, I grew up on shows like He-Man, Thundercats, TMNT, Duck Tales, Ghostbusters and Count Duckula to name a few. I grew up with movies like Goonies, Ghostbusters, Land Before Time, Back to the Future, and ET, once again to name a few. But here's the thing, among my generation or those just after it, I have seemed to notice a certain behaviour when nostalgia is either milked, exploited or even done in good faith.

    We get super gatekeepy. I recently saw the Master of the Universe cartoon, I thought it was okay but being a guy who left social media in 2016 I wasn't aware of the vitriol around this show until after I watched the first 5 episodes (guess it pays to not be on social media), People furious over it for whatever the reason I do not care there are multiple reasons I have heard and seen. Take a movie like the 2016 Ghostbustrers that came out (I still haven't seen it nor do I intend to), or maybe Thundercats got a recent cartoon series that people hate becuase of the animation style, and yes it is awful but I don't care because, first, the original still exists and second, this new one isnt for me. But people get super mad at shows that have long since left their used by date, we have grown up, children are watching these shows now and probably are enjoying them, meanwhile us 30+ year olds are here crying about our cartoons that are generally not aimed at us anymore.

    Have we failed to move on from our childhood? Why do we connect so much with the media we grew up on and why can we not let it go? For whatever reasons we are upset about our nostalgia being 'ruined' or 'destroyed' why do we really care? I am really not that bothered personally, but it seems us 30+ year olds are really concerned about children's TV shows more than any other generation before us?

    This may be because of Hollywood and culture in general is really cashing hard on things we loved and altering them to fit social norms of today, and I say whatever, go for it, if I don't like it I don't like it, if I like it then hey good for me. But some people get so aggressive about it. And I don't get it. I mean that's a lie, I really hated the Michael Bay Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles but I never went on a social media tirade about it like some people have done for their nostalgia.

    Now this seems to be common thing in our generation. My dad who is a big conservative guy grew up with a lot of shows and never once complains if they have changed or been altered, he takes it at face value then just says if its shit or good. Its just really off that our generation is so attached to these things. I am not sure you fellow zoomers will be in the same boat as us... time will tell.

    What are your opinions on this?

    EDIT: Also mods can you fix spelling error in title 'Does' not 'Dose' thank you <3
    Well the best way I can put it is by using the "girl next door" analogy. You that know sweet, innocent, cute, angelic 12 yr old girl next door that you had a crush on and then you ask her out when you 15 after years of putting it off and then y'all break up cause y'all have to go to separate colleges. She has big plans and decides to move to the big city to chase her dreams. She visits home 10 years later for the first time, but you don't recognize her at all. She's divorced, has 2 kids, put on 60+ pounds and is just so drained out on life and everything. Yeah take that and apply it to everything else. That's basically what the 90s and early 00s were for the most part with a lot of things. Obviously corporations and big business found a way to cash in on it cause why not, money to be made. So they pretty much robbed the heart and soul of everything and pretty much made everything so the lowest denominator can enjoy it. You look at movies, video games, music, etc. Its all there to simply print money. Its not "nostaligia" that everyone is so obsessed with. Its the innocence or rather simplicity that was lost over the years that most folks miss. Take World of Warcraft for example. See how much has changed with the game and in the game in the last 10 years. Look at movies and even music these days. I can't even turn on the radio without wanting to turn it off almost immediately. Every movie plays out the same. No one really cared for superhero movies until the 2010s. Suddenly movie studios want us to believe its what we want and every new movies racks up billions in revenues and profits. You've already had like 2 different Spider-Man reboots in less than decade. The sad thing is that Spider-Man 3 only came out in like 2007.

    Take video games as well. Every video game coming out seems to be these huge open world games. Who decided that we needed more open world games? Yet publishers keep churning out bigger and bigger game worlds cause they want us to believe we need more of them when we have less time to play them than ever before. Risk aversion. Publishers and studios put so much of money into making anything, it stifles creativity. Suddenly everything has to be a cookie cutter build cause no one is willing to take a risk on anything. Its all about those balance statements and generating maximum revenue. That's why folks look back on nostalgia. Its cause everything that we once loved has been butchered where its lost their heart and soul, the very thing people loved about it in the first place.

  2. #62
    Enjoy whatever you want.

    You will find people on social media that hate everything, and not always for particularly sane reasons.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And I'm saying that's an audience being unreasonable. It's an impossible standard. You have to be better than the best thing ever to be "good enough".

    I never said it was a reasonable position. In fact, I specifically pointed out that there is nothing logical about it. It's holding something new to the standard of something that, while it may have been flawed in reality, is perfect in memory. It's completely unreasonable...and we, as flawed human beings, do it constantly.

    I also said that the people who are willing to give these new shows a chance based on the actual qualities of the show itself might find that they are, in actual fact, quality shows. Or they might not...but their judgement will at least be untainted by nostalgia.


    But we, as flawed beings, don't always make decisions based on logic and reason.

  4. #64
    Speaking only for myself it's because they're havens from contemporary craziness. The 2016 Ghostbusters is a great example. When I first heard about it I thought it would be fun to relive those memories and maybe make some new ones. When I found out the cast had been changed to all women I worried it was going to be some kind of feminist message. Eventually, I read an interview by the director and he had such a chip on his shoulder about the patriarchy and male chauvinism it just turned me off to the movie so I never saw it.

    I've run into the same criticisms about JRR Tolkien's books and The Wheel of Time series Amazon may be producing. I found a news article talking about the progress of the series and the entire discussion thread under the article, literally hundreds of posts, was concerned about making sure each race was properly represented in the show. I find all of this tiresome. I need something to get a break from the angry self-righteousness which seems to saturate the current US dialogue and these old shows provide a way to do that.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I'm less than a handful of years younger than you, OP, and I loved the new He-Man. It was objectively good, even for a fan of the older version. The bad part was how utterly predictable the online reaction has been. I wouldn't call it gatekeeping or anything like that. The internet is just full of joyless pricks that can't enjoy anything.

    I saw a review titled "She-Man : Masters of the Social Justice-verse" which, while it made me chuckle at the ridiculousness (because it just isn't true), it just made me sigh at how pathetic the person writing it must be.
    I'm wondering if you know what the word "objectively" means...

  6. #66
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    No, "we" aren't. A few thousands people on an internet echo bubble literally means shit.

    I'm 37, never had a twitter account, never will. Life is good. Why you care about what other you'll never know for real think about anything ?
    Like what you want, dislike what you want. And let other do the same...
    Because this isn't 2012 anymore. For better or for worse, even if we're talking about a relatively small bubble of people/tweets/posts, social media pressure can work nowadays.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    We get super gatekeepy. I recently saw the Master of the Universe cartoon, I thought it was okay but being a guy who left social media in 2016 I wasn't aware of the vitriol around this show until after I watched the first 5 episodes (guess it pays to not be on social media), People furious over it for whatever the reason I do not care there are multiple reasons I have heard and seen.
    People got pissed because they did a lame bait and switch, they said it was a he-man series, they featured him HEAVILY, in the trailler in the media and hyped a lot on him and skeletor.

    Then they delivered none of it, that was a dick move, that got people angry, other minor things were also a problem, but those aren't worthy mentioning here, like the visual of some characters being, from no other better words, cringe and the plot being "meh" sometimes.

    If they, from the start, were open and said what the series was supposed to be, without this bait and switch, people would not care much about it because it was not that bad

    Like, imagine seeling a ninja turtles series, but its just Master splinter? people will turn the nose regardless if its good or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Phayde View Post

    I was impressed by the animation, music and voice cast of the new MotU show, but the characterization of Teela completely ruined it for me, which is a shame because to quote Director Krennic, "We were on the verge of greatness, we were this close", but I think they dropped the ball with how they handled Teela, which then effected the rest of the series. I don't know that I'll watch the second half. For the record, Kevin Smith repeatedly said this MotU WAS made for the older fans.
    They indeed drop the ball with this one

    Maybe they will deliver he-man in the other half of the series, but this first one was just a nope.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-07-25 at 11:16 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The show is not titled "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe: Revelation".

    It's titled "Masters of the Universe: Revelation".

    He-man is literally not a headliner. In fact, his omission from the title seems pretty darned intentional.
    Considering Kevin Smith himself has on multiple occasions, including on streams over the last few days, called it He-man, and it was marketed with him as the staple character, it's easy to understand why people felt misled. And as others have said, was the writing of the other characters, Tesla in particular, at least on par with the 2002 reboot, I think it could have been forgiven.

    Also, I was going to reply about your earlier comment re: shows like He-man and Transformers being bad. Yeah, they are bad by today's standards, and we should expect a lot better quality in every aspect of shows that use the same characters and names. But those shows were still good for their time, I loved them as a kid and they were reruns by that point. And I agree about the Transformers movies, they were terrible, I seriously don't know who greenlit those Michael Bay movies but I hope they got canned. The dialogue and script writing alone was worse than George Lucas writing the Star Wars prequels.

  9. #69
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    No the real problem then like now is the problem of separation, have far too many younger people that don't stick with their own and older groups that do the same. So much that age to some people is irrelevant.

    The problem is it's not and I think some spaces respective ONLY tp certain ages needs to be established and maintained. Not EVERYTHING should include everyone all the time.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    This rampant nostalgia consumer machine is nothing more than the infantilization of adults to further the degradation of society and culture. People who buy into this rubbish are literally manchildren. Yea, it’s time to grow up and move on. But the idea of growing up bothers a frighteningly large amount of people, that I’m not surprised so many adults today unironically watch cartoons
    He says, posting on a fan page FOR VIDEO GAMES he plays.

  11. #71
    A lot of the backlash could have been avoided if they had have been upfront that it was a Teela show, not a He Man one. Not all, a core would always be pissed. The idea that people are being unreasonable for expecting a He Man show is just flawed. It was an obvious bait and switch. It doesn't make you a bigot if you take issue with such blatantly misleading marketing. And yes, of course, that also doesn't mean that no one having a go at the show is doing it for bigoted reasons, there will always be some who will freak if a woman even speaks more than 2 lines of dialogue, "FEMINAZIS ROOINED IT!".

    I also think they could have elevated Teela without doing what they do with He Man. Castlevania was an example of representation done well in my opinion. Trevor didn't need to be sidelined in order for Sypha to shine. They both worked well together, they were a great team who complimented each other well. You had a spectrum of characters, male, female, black, white, you had LGBT characters, gender atypical characters, none of it felt like box ticking, they were given enough screen time to generally feel fleshed out and served a purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinningOne View Post
    Speaking only for myself it's because they're havens from contemporary craziness. The 2016 Ghostbusters is a great example. When I first heard about it I thought it would be fun to relive those memories and maybe make some new ones. When I found out the cast had been changed to all women I worried it was going to be some kind of feminist message. Eventually, I read an interview by the director and he had such a chip on his shoulder about the patriarchy and male chauvinism it just turned me off to the movie so I never saw it.

    I've run into the same criticisms about JRR Tolkien's books and The Wheel of Time series Amazon may be producing. I found a news article talking about the progress of the series and the entire discussion thread under the article, literally hundreds of posts, was concerned about making sure each race was properly represented in the show. I find all of this tiresome. I need something to get a break from the angry self-righteousness which seems to saturate the current US dialogue and these old shows provide a way to do that.
    Funny because WoT is literally one of the most diverse fantasy series ever created, and realistically would be any modern day feminists wet dream because a large chunk of the narrative is about women and women are the power structure for the majority of the series until fairly late into it when things turn upside down. But women, much like the men in the books, are presented as flawed and falliable people, rather than 'look at me I'm strong and don't need no man' types that you see in literally all media these days. Hollywood has bastardized feminism so bad too, and constantly tries really hard to rip the feminine traits out of female characters, both in their personalities as well as their appearances.

    Case in point this He-man product. Literally if you remove the lipstick and hair from Teela, she looks exactly like a man. Her behavior is also painfully an attempt at being masculine too. Can women just not be feminine in any capacity anymore? I'm pretty sure people who liked her character originally are not at all impressed by how they've presented her now, because it's a total opposite.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Funny because WoT is literally one of the most diverse fantasy series ever created, and realistically would be any modern day feminists wet dream because a large chunk of the narrative is about women and women are the power structure for the majority of the series until fairly late into it when things turn upside down. But women, much like the men in the books, are presented as flawed and falliable people, rather than 'look at me I'm strong and don't need no man' types that you see in literally all media these days. Hollywood has bastardized feminism so bad too, and constantly tries really hard to rip the feminine traits out of female characters, both in their personalities as well as their appearances.

    Case in point this He-man product. Literally if you remove the lipstick and hair from Teela, she looks exactly like a man. Her behavior is also painfully an attempt at being masculine too. Can women just not be feminine in any capacity anymore? I'm pretty sure people who liked her character originally are not at all impressed by how they've presented her now, because it's a total opposite.
    Not really opposite. Teela was always a competent but headstrong soldier with a tendency for rash actions which seems in keeping with the new series, and MOTU Revelations is finally exploring two of the original series unresolved issues - how will Teela respond when she finds out all the people closest to her were keeping a major secret and when will she come into her powers as the daughter of the sorceress? Even the 2001 series was cancelled before it got to the bottom of these questions.

    My biggest issue with the series is the fact they've Benjamin Buttoned Prince Adam. Every other characters seems to have got a bit older while he's gone from adulthood to a teenager, more like the 2001 series than the original.

  14. #74
    Banned Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    I'm not american so I don't understand this kevin smith drama, never liked him, he was the side-character in clerks who never uttered a word, he likes to wear hockey shirts. What has he done since the 90s up to this he-man business? I don't get it, why is this guy famous n why do netflix care about him??

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I liked it personally. I wasnt even aware there was even controversy over it until after I binged watched it... the blessing of not being on social media I guess. So, like most controversies I have no ides what people are complaining about but seeing who the star of the show is I can probably guess lol. which is why the show was called Masters of the Universe and not He-Man Masters of the Universe.

    and this is what the thread is about mainly, I do not understand why people are so angry and feel the need to be so toxic about a show they were so attached when they were younger? Why is this the hill people are wanting to die on? And this guy in the video calling it a disaster? Why because he didn't like it? These manchild tubers need to grow up a bit and learn to enjoy things, make some positive videos about what he likes instead to trying to be Quartering guy #3123

    this guy makes videos about being angry about the most mundane things... Its so much effort and energy.
    when you have an entire cottage industry around goading angry nerds nothing is too much of an effort... unless it's to get out of the basement long enough to not pee in the corner. I thought the new show was fine as well, but hey to each their own.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I'm not american so I don't understand this kevin smith drama, never liked him, he was the side-character in clerks who never uttered a word, he likes to wear hockey shirts. What has he done since the 90s up to this he-man business? I don't get it, why is this guy famous n why do netflix care about him??
    Here you go.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I'm not american so I don't understand this kevin smith drama, never liked him, he was the side-character in clerks who never uttered a word, he likes to wear hockey shirts. What has he done since the 90s up to this he-man business? I don't get it, why is this guy famous n why do netflix care about him??
    He wasn't just a side character, he wrote and directed Clerks as well as a host of other loosely connected films and some other movies of varied success. He's a longtime pop culture commentator with various articles, books, blogs and podcasts to his name and has written for DC and Marvel several times.

  18. #78
    He also wrote and directed one of the best religious lampoons ever, in Dogma. Still my favorite movie of his.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    He also wrote and directed one of the best religious lampoons ever, in Dogma. Still my favorite movie of his.
    And then he went and protested his own movie for being anti-Christian. Absolute legend round these parts.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I'm not american so I don't understand this kevin smith drama, never liked him, he was the side-character in clerks who never uttered a word, he likes to wear hockey shirts. What has he done since the 90s up to this he-man business? I don't get it, why is this guy famous n why do netflix care about him??
    He's a name, that's about it. Netflix likes to tie well known names to bigger franchises because they think it'll give them clout. Ultimately Netflix doesn't care at all about the show or Kevin Smith, and he's the fall guy if people dislike the show because he produced it.

    My issue is that there's clearly been no oversight for a lot of shows on Netflix recently insofar as ensuring quality and being able to capture the largest audience possible. You'd think someone in their management would be familiar with the series and stepped in and told them to change it. Unfortunately this show has damaged any good will from the old fans and Mattel has basically fucked the toy line because literally the first set of toys are all of characters that get offed in the first five episodes. People were dunking on them on Twitter because of it, so it's clear that the fans are at least annoyed. And the license is expiring for Mattel so the IP rights will go back to Paramount soon which means this could all just be a wasted effort for a cash grab attempt that will ultimately fail.

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