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  1. #101
    Scarab Lord Skorpionss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    After going through his most recent videos I call bullshit. His entire schtick is outrage for clicks.
    Sure, everything you disagree with is outrage for clicks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    erm, no, are you sure we're talking about the same guy? He comes across as another Quartering wannabe (before Quartering became the outrage drama channel). Another alt-right manchild creator disguised as a 'critic' complaining about stuff that caters to other man-child to validate their lower IQ opinions. There are loads of people like that who keep appearing in my recommended for some reason, like that YellowFlash guy... Seriously these people need to get a different hobby. All this hate and anger cannot be good for the blood pressure.
    Bro, all his vids are reviews of movies or talking about the film/entertainment industry... what are you even talking about? You don't have to agree with the guy but at least listen to what he has to say, because he definitely knows more about the industry than you do, because of the simple fact that it's been his "job" for a number of years.

  2. #102
    You're creating a narrative in your head. Though I will say I was on both sides of being ok and hating what George Lucas did to Star Wars. Another is there are Goonies out there that want THEIR version they saw and not what it is now, with parts cut out and put into deleted scenes.|


    But I will let you in on a little secret. Ads are what TVs are made for, and don't for a second think it's there for the shows, movies, etc. Movies and shows are FILLER to get people to stay to watch the next ad. And if you follow with your logic in people's thinking, I would venture off so much to claim that these same like minded people would say commercials were even better back when they was a kid.

    I'm getting ready to turn 39 and I hope people of the same age have learned how much we were pumped with propaganda and how to consume consume and consume. How to consume this and not that. Why to like this and not that. It's as if tv PROGRAMMING programmed you to like a certain thing, which was the thing you watched. Companies don't want you liking the latest and greatest thing, they want you sold on what you already agreed to..... It was like having a membership card before places did that to consumers to trick them to shop and be loyal to one store.

    Also, is your issue with social media and this is just a guise to talk about that?

  3. #103
    Mechagnome Mr. Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Have we failed to move on from our childhood? Why do we connect so much with the media we grew up on and why can we not let it go? For whatever reasons we are upset about our nostalgia being 'ruined' or 'destroyed' why do we really care? I am really not that bothered personally, but it seems us 30+ year olds are really concerned about children's TV shows more than any other generation before us?
    When we were kids in the 90s and 80s was right around the time, I think, that a lot of children's shows started trying to actually "mean" something. Compare the Flintstones or the Jetsons to, say, Captain Planet. The former two are basically just generic sitcoms with gimmicks bolted on to them: They could be entertaining in their own right, but they were inoffensive, bland even. Whereas if you were a kid that loved animals and going outside, you would naturally be more attached to Captain Planet because it spoke to something that you were personally interested in.

    I think that's where the greater level of investment comes in: The shows in the 80s-90s had more unique identities than those that came before, and it caused deeper connections for the people that understood and appreciated those identities: It's like the difference between someone you were friends with at school just because they were nice, versus the friends who you would make time to meet after school and on weekends because you both liked playing video games.

    So people become more heated about these things because, when they see them rebooted by new writers who change or outright destroy those identities they love, it's like watching your friend who likes video games settle down with an S/O that makes them stop playing video games. I don't think this is something that will be unique to Gen X and Millennials though: After all, new TV shows are still being made that try to speak to people. I mean, just imagine thirty years or so from now, if a show that came out today with a cast of minority characters was rebooted to be mostly comprised of white people, the complaining from the newer generation of people who identified with the original version of the show would be biblical.

  4. #104
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    This lie is so obvious. You all used it when people shit on Star Wars, Ghostbusters 2016 and Birds of Prey. Can you not just accept that people dislike things in a lot larger numbers than those who like it instead of crying that people are intentionally being negative to artifically reduce audience scores? Just take the L and move on. Because you seem to think that your little echo chamber of people who like the garbage that Hollywood keeps crapping out speaks for the majority all the time, when in reality the people who care the most are the majority. And if you ever try to use critic scores to rationalize your bias, that's just sheer naivety on your part because we know that 90% of reviewers have some sort of bias.
    And yet, somehow, those products are financially successful anyway.

    Take the brigading of Captain Marvel, because Brie Larson made a couple comments in interviews that upset the manchildren. It still shows up really low in audience scores on review sites. Despite the quantifiable fact that it's one of the most-successful non-Avengers MCU films; https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisb...g-black-widow/

    It's not even that hard to tell if there's brigading going on; reviews will normally tend to form a bell curve, naturally, if the average is middling, or will be a curve up to a peak at 5 or 1 if it's legitimately great or terrible. When there's brigading, there'll be a huge spike of 1-star reviews, and then a normal bell curve above that in the 3-4-5 region somewhere.

    Imagine trying to deny that brigading occurs in movie audience reviews, in 2021.


  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And yet, somehow, those products are financially successful anyway.
    You can't be talking about Disney Star Wars, GB2016, and Birds of Prey then. Disney has not recouped the initial 4 billion dollar investment, GB2016 bombed and so did BoP.
    The only reason Captain Marvel made as much money as it did was because they moved the release to just before the long awaited finish because they knew fans were hoping for more infos on Endgame. The bad video sales (DVD+BR) confirm that hypothesis.

    So, maybe 1 in 4 could be counted as a success.

    Care to admit you are wrong?
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  6. #106
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by segara82 View Post
    You can't be talking about Disney Star Wars, GB2016, and Birds of Prey then. Disney has not recouped the initial 4 billion dollar investment, GB2016 bombed and so did BoP.
    If you're only looking at the films, maybe, but Disney makes money off everything Star Wars.

    And those films were financially successful. The only one you could even really call a box office disappointment was Solo. The rest more than made back their production costs, and topped a billion worldwide revenue each.

    https://observer.com/2020/08/star-wa...ey-box-office/

    Birds of Prey was better than it had any reason to be, though it didn't have much of an audience and marketing fucked it up pretty royally. And GB 2016 was just a generically meh film; it's only considered a travesty because of comparisons to the original. I've never defended it as a "good movie", just as "not complete garbage trash but more like a 6/10".

    The only reason Captain Marvel made as much money as it did was because they moved the release to just before the long awaited finish because they knew fans were hoping for more infos on Endgame. The bad video sales (DVD+BR) confirm that hypothesis.
    No, this is desperate flailing in an attempt to manufacture excuses.

    Care to admit you are wrong?
    Given that I'm not, no.


  7. #107
    There is a severe problem with people not wanting to put the toys down. I'm slightly older than the OP, and this inability to leave the trappings of childhood behind (and then act like children either defending or criticising) is disturbing. It's [redacted] He-Man. The last time I picked up a He-Man (or any other action figure) was about 1992. I haven't watched the show, and won't because I'm not 11 anymore, but the vitriol coming from both directions is childish. Especially coming from adults.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And yet, somehow, those products are financially successful anyway.

    Take the brigading of Captain Marvel, because Brie Larson made a couple comments in interviews that upset the manchildren. It still shows up really low in audience scores on review sites. Despite the quantifiable fact that it's one of the most-successful non-Avengers MCU films; https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisb...g-black-widow/

    It's not even that hard to tell if there's brigading going on; reviews will normally tend to form a bell curve, naturally, if the average is middling, or will be a curve up to a peak at 5 or 1 if it's legitimately great or terrible. When there's brigading, there'll be a huge spike of 1-star reviews, and then a normal bell curve above that in the 3-4-5 region somewhere.

    Imagine trying to deny that brigading occurs in movie audience reviews, in 2021.
    Does positive review "brigading" happen?

  8. #108
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post
    Does positive review "brigading" happen?
    From what I've seen there's maybe some "counter-brigading" that happens, but I haven't seen any examples of massive spams of unwarranted 5-star audience reviews. I'm not saying it can't or doesn't happen, I've just never seen it happen or seen anyone talk about it.

    There's no reason it couldn't. But I wouldn't say it does happen without evidence.


  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post

    Does positive review "brigading" happen?
    It's pretty rare. But the types who get pissed that He-Man isn't in a Masters of the Universe show tend to band together to review bomb the shit without watching any of it. They hear from a trusted source that it's not focused on the big muscle guy so why would they even tune in? It's about a girl? Fuck that! Imagine if we'd had twitter when She-Ra came out.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you're only looking at the films, maybe, but Disney makes money off everything Star Wars.

    And those films were financially successful. The only one you could even really call a box office disappointment was Solo. The rest more than made back their production costs, and topped a billion worldwide revenue each.

    https://observer.com/2020/08/star-wa...ey-box-office/

    Birds of Prey was better than it had any reason to be, though it didn't have much of an audience and marketing fucked it up pretty royally. And GB 2016 was just a generically meh film; it's only considered a travesty because of comparisons to the original. I've never defended it as a "good movie", just as "not complete garbage trash but more like a 6/10".



    No, this is desperate flailing in an attempt to manufacture excuses.


    Star Wars has, even with the added revenue of toys, games, and books not recouperated the initial investment. While individual films have been financially successful and recouped their own investment, they have alienated so many fans they killed the merch sale. All in all, SW for Disney is so far an investment that has after 9 years and several movies failed to turn a real profit after factoring in the purchasing price. Is a financial loss after that much work really what you would call a success? I don't.

    Birds of Prey barely made 200 millions, barely breaking even. Barely. You call that a success? Well, of course you would, since you consider Disney's Star Wars run a success too.

    So, even you admit that GB2016 bombed and is not a success?

    And for Captain Marvel: It is not a 'desperate flailing in an attempt to manufacture excuses'. IF CM were as good and beloved as you and others claim ... why are the DVD/BR not selling? Surely the fans would buy them if it were that good, right?
    Oh, they don't? Well .... my point stands.


    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Given that I'm not, no.
    But you are, you are just to stubborn to admit it.
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  11. #111
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by segara82 View Post
    Star Wars has, even with the added revenue of toys, games, and books not recouperated the initial investment. While individual films have been financially successful and recouped their own investment, they have alienated so many fans they killed the merch sale. All in all, SW for Disney is so far an investment that has after 9 years and several movies failed to turn a real profit after factoring in the purchasing price. Is a financial loss after that much work really what you would call a success? I don't.
    I note you have no source whatsoever for this claim.

    Also, ROI has a time frame. And you have no source to justify the belief that the Star Wars aquisition has failed to perform to Disney's expectations regarding that ROI.

    Birds of Prey barely made 200 millions, barely breaking even. Barely. You call that a success? Well, of course you would, since you consider Disney's Star Wars run a success too.
    Where did I say Birds of Prey was successful? I said it was better than people thought and marketing for it was awful.

    So, even you admit that GB2016 bombed and is not a success?
    Yes. Did you think that's some kind of gotcha?

    I thought I talked about it on here back when it came out, but I can't pull up any posts at all, so apparently that was on another forum. I never thought the GB reboot was "good". I thought it was a 6/10, maybe 7/10. I thought it had deviations from the original that were indefensible, like the shift to "killing" ghosts rather than "capturing". But those issues had nothing to do with the actresses in the film, or that the cast was female in general. You could tell that any potential soul it might've had was ground out in focus groups and corporate meetings. Did you expect me to say it was the bestest thing ever, or something? I just disagree with people saying it was 1/10 garbage. I've seen movies that were legitimately that bad. If you want to know if I'd prefer to watch a Twilight movie, or GB2016, I'll throw on the latter. "Generically meh" is a death knell when you're rebooting a classic.

    And for Captain Marvel: It is not a 'desperate flailing in an attempt to manufacture excuses'. IF CM were as good and beloved as you and others claim ... why are the DVD/BR not selling? Surely the fans would buy them if it were that good, right?
    Oh, they don't? Well .... my point stands.
    In what world are DVD and Blu-Ray sales a big marker of anything when nearly everyone has HD streaming at their fingertips?

    I don't own a BR copy of Captain Marvel. I don't own a BR copy of anything from the last, like, 6 or 7 years. Not because there weren't fantastic films in that time, but because I've had access to streaming services. Which often bump up quality. I have a lot of films on DVD I never watch because DVD isn't 4k. For instance. I still watch those films. Just not from the DVDs I own.

    Plus, let's compare. Here's Captain Marvel's figures;
    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Ca...9)#tab=summary

    To be as even as possible, here's Spider-Man: Far From Home's figures; it made pretty comparable box office results and at close to the same time frame;
    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Sp...9)#tab=summary

    Disc sales are too close to see any meaningful difference. So to your claim; it's bunk. You're operating from a false premise.

    Which is why you keep saying things, without sourcing them in actual data.


  12. #112
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Starting with the baby boomer generation, parents started abandoned their kids to grow up in daycares and public schools (read: prisons), come home and find no parents in the house. What do the kids do? They turn to each other and get sucked into the pop cult, being raised by TV. They become consumers who want toys and merch of the franchise they worship. And then their parents shuffled them into college. So by the time a man is 25 years old, he has spent his entire life having no responsibility, having no good role models, and being a partyier. Hence why you have 40 year old manbabies who still live with their parents and spend all of their money on Star Wars merch.
    Oh, it started even earlier than that with parents, going back to pre-history even.

    It wasn't until the Baby Boomer generation that kids were even SEEN (Victorian society believed children should ONLY be seen and not heard). My parents were of that mindset, and I'm early GenX generationally, but my parents weren't Boomers, they were born during the Silent Generation (Before WWII).

    So independence was taught VERY early in my family (kids today are in diapers still in kindergarten! My parents "social network" were like if you weren't potty trained by 2 years-old you had bad parents! Remember my grandmother was irate that a neighbor's kid at 4 was still in diapers in the 1980s).

    You had to learn to "tank" the world alone. Not what they teach today to always be "social" and do what the GROUP does for security. If you couldn't stand on principle through fire and fury, you couldn't cut the mustard and a washout.

    Early GenX and being home alone, was par on course, even when my parents were kids. Siblings became "little mom" or "little dad", instead. My dad had to watch his younger brother as he was ill (needed major surgery and was weak for years afterwards), as boys were just mean. Same with my big sis, who takes care of me today. As I had to take care of my mom, living in a foreign land and all.

    Each generation likes to see their generation as the more "sane" one, but they all had their faults. GenX and money? OMG! No one told us anything about finances. Look at Mike Morhaime funding Blizzard and meeting payroll on his credit card (with money donated by his grandma!). Good God!
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  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    No, this is desperate flailing in an attempt to manufacture excuses.
    No, it isn't. What he said is true. Captain Marvel came right in between the 2 biggest, most epic in scope Marvel movies to date, the end of an era, and the final(in theory) appearance of several major beloved characters who have been centerpieces of the entire MCU. The movie featured the debut of a character who was being hyped to feature prominently in the second half of that aforementioned biggest, most epic in scope movie to date and who would be a leading MCU character going forward. Are you saying you truly think that had nothing to do with the movie's success, and everyone rushed out to see it because it was a great movie and they just loved Captain Marvel?

    As for his point about DVD/blu-ray sales, it gets a little more questionable but he's not actually wrong there either. It made ~$67 million in home video sales, which IS among the lower end of the MCU spectrum. It has basically tied Ant-Man and beat Ant-Man 2 and Dr. Strange, but every other MCU film I checked did better. Some beat it by as little as ~$5-6 million(like Ragnarok), while The Avengers beat it by nearly $180 million. I'm not saying $67 million is a failure or a total bomb or anything, and there are other considerations(The Avengers has had 9 years worth of sales to reach that $250 million mark, Captain Marvel has only had 2 years to reach it's $67 million) just that, at least right now, it's not one of their biggest moneymakers when it comes to home video.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    It's pretty rare. But the types who get pissed that He-Man isn't in a Masters of the Universe show tend to band together to review bomb the shit without watching any of it. They hear from a trusted source that it's not focused on the big muscle guy so why would they even tune in? It's about a girl? Fuck that! Imagine if we'd had twitter when She-Ra came out.
    When She-ra came out, it was the kids that were watching it. Not adults. And the entire reasoning behind She-ra was to capture that 50% of the market they were missing. Let me re-emphasize KIDS.

    Why would negative review bombing be more prevalent than positive review. . . um. . . uplifting? What is the criteria for a review bomb?
    Last edited by Grax; 2021-07-28 at 04:56 PM.

  15. #115
    Dreadlord Konteil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Entertainment companies keep repackaging this stuff more so than there is an active desire for it. Mostly because this stuff never goes away anymore.

    If I wanted to watch All in the Family or Ed Sullivan back in the day, I had to catch a rerun on some affiliate channel or buy a VHS collection for $29.99 on a late-night infomercial.

    But I can bring up like any episode of the Pirates of Dark Water or Bravestar if I wanted in a few seconds. I mean, I don't. A retelling of the classic tale of Silverhawks is what I am clamoring for necessarily. Probably not a lot of other people are either- they just recall it and say, "Oh yea."

    But that's enough for an entertainment company because they just need eyeballs on the product on content. Voluminous, unending content.

    The whole gatekeeping thing is really just a small amount of nerds. To be frank.
    ok where did you find a place to stream pirates of darkwater. that is a show i miss like helland got super pissed when hanna barbara got scrapped and it got cancelled. i need this show lol
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  16. #116
    So I'm 39, grew up with all of the 80's properties you talked about, and have the same general indifference to social media.

    The Masters of the Universe fiasco to me stems from one thing - Kevin Smith lying to the audience. I think if not for the intentional 'rage bait' statement, no one would really care about this property and it'd be generally ignored or left obscure. This is all news worthy because it's something people can emotionally react to on social media.

    I find that rage/cancel culture is emotionally driven, and generally would not even be a symptom of being a fan or having nostalgia. People are growing up around social media, and expressing opinions and emotions publicly has become normalized. People are making money off expressing their emotions on the internet, publicly, at full volume. Social media isn't really the problem itself, and I see it as the enabler for expressing opinions and emotions. No one uses social media for *information and facts*, it's sole purpose is all about generating the feels.

    So whenever this kind of news blows up on social media, it's pretty much all reactions and first impressions, regardless of whether something is objectively good or bad. And it really goes either way. Sometimes its good, like getting Sonic changed in the Sonic movie. Sometimes its bad, like cancelling James Gunn for tasteless tweets he made 10 yrs ago. The reactions are always emotion driven, and social media gives those emotions a platform to be expressed publicly. Of course, that all leads to mob mentality and tribalism and all that, and we can see how generally society overall has been influenced by these kind of 'trends'.

    I don't think it's a generational thing as much as it is a societal shift. Why is our generation less affected? Because generally we grew up in a world that still kept emotions controlled and conservative, and we did not grow up in a world where expressing emotions on a public platform is considered the norm. We're the last generation of 'emotional conservatives', so to speak.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-07-28 at 05:02 PM.
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  17. #117
    I've said this in other threads, but this whole He-Man thing is another embarrassing example of the creative bankruptcy of my generation. Since we're incapable of creating anything new, we must take even the cast-off crumbs of 30-plus year-old children's entertainment and present it as something "new". Frankly, I am totally ashamed to be a part of this group.

  18. #118
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    It's probably just the nerd/comic book culture that spread into everything else tangentially related (games, shows, animation, etc). It's the same types of people falling in the same circles. Like how reviewer/critic culture started with plays/opera/books and spread into everything from clothing to food.

    There is a problem, but it's not tied to our generation per se. More likely just unaddressed issues that are made worse on an anonymous international space.
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post
    When She-ra came out, it was the kids that were watching it. Not adults. And the entire reasoning behind She-ra was to capture that 50% of the market they were missing. Let me re-emphasize KIDS.

    Why would negative review bombing be more prevalent than positive review. . . um. . . uplifting? What is the criteria for a review bomb?
    Oh dear. You think there weren’t older fans of Saturday morning cartoons? I bet you think only kids read comics back then too.

  20. #120
    [QUOTE=segara82;53309441]Disney has not recouped the initial 4 billion dollar investment.

    It's a 4 billion dollar investment. You don't make that back overnight...but still:

    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl2691925505/
    Force Awakens Box Office: 2 billion

    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl2708702721/
    Last Jedi Box Office: 1.3 Billion

    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl2557707777/
    Rogue One Box Office: 1 Billion

    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/...ref_=bo_se_r_1
    Rise Of Skywalker Box Office: 1 Billion

    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/...ref_=bo_se_r_2
    Solo Box Office: 400million

    Of all those...Solo is the only one that didn't really make any money for Disney. Plus there's the Mandalorian on D+. And then you gotta consider merchandise, video games, etc. Also, they didn't just get Star Wars. They got Lucasfilm and everything included in that. That means all the IP's. That means Industrial Lights and Magic. You're fucking kidding yourself if you think Disney isn't making bank on Star Wars.


    The only reason Captain Marvel made as much money as it did was because they moved the release to just before the long awaited finish because they knew fans were hoping for more infos on Endgame. The bad video sales (DVD+BR) confirm that hypothesis.
    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Ca...ab=video-sales
    Captain Marvel Video Sales:

    Domestic: 67 million

    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/An...ab=video-sales
    Antman and the Wasp Video sales

    Domestic: 50 million

    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Do...6)#tab=summary
    Doctor Strange Video Sales:

    Domestic 58 Million

    https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Sp...ng#tab=summary
    Spider-Man Homecoming Video Sales

    Domestic: 70 million

    That's Captain Marvel's video sales compared to two other marvel films that it outperformed on video sales and one that it came pretty close to meeting. Not the highest numbers sure...but not "bad" by any means.

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