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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And I'm saying that's an audience being unreasonable. It's an impossible standard. You have to be better than the best thing ever to be "good enough".

    I never said it was a reasonable position. In fact, I specifically pointed out that there is nothing logical about it. It's holding something new to the standard of something that, while it may have been flawed in reality, is perfect in memory. It's completely unreasonable...and we, as flawed human beings, do it constantly.

    I also said that the people who are willing to give these new shows a chance based on the actual qualities of the show itself might find that they are, in actual fact, quality shows. Or they might not...but their judgement will at least be untainted by nostalgia.


    But we, as flawed beings, don't always make decisions based on logic and reason.

  2. #62
    Speaking only for myself it's because they're havens from contemporary craziness. The 2016 Ghostbusters is a great example. When I first heard about it I thought it would be fun to relive those memories and maybe make some new ones. When I found out the cast had been changed to all women I worried it was going to be some kind of feminist message. Eventually, I read an interview by the director and he had such a chip on his shoulder about the patriarchy and male chauvinism it just turned me off to the movie so I never saw it.

    I've run into the same criticisms about JRR Tolkien's books and The Wheel of Time series Amazon may be producing. I found a news article talking about the progress of the series and the entire discussion thread under the article, literally hundreds of posts, was concerned about making sure each race was properly represented in the show. I find all of this tiresome. I need something to get a break from the angry self-righteousness which seems to saturate the current US dialogue and these old shows provide a way to do that.

  3. #63
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    No, "we" aren't. A few thousands people on an internet echo bubble literally means shit.

    I'm 37, never had a twitter account, never will. Life is good. Why you care about what other you'll never know for real think about anything ?
    Like what you want, dislike what you want. And let other do the same...
    Because this isn't 2012 anymore. For better or for worse, even if we're talking about a relatively small bubble of people/tweets/posts, social media pressure can work nowadays.

  4. #64
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    We get super gatekeepy. I recently saw the Master of the Universe cartoon, I thought it was okay but being a guy who left social media in 2016 I wasn't aware of the vitriol around this show until after I watched the first 5 episodes (guess it pays to not be on social media), People furious over it for whatever the reason I do not care there are multiple reasons I have heard and seen.
    People got pissed because they did a lame bait and switch, they said it was a he-man series, they featured him HEAVILY, in the trailler in the media and hyped a lot on him and skeletor.

    Then they delivered none of it, that was a dick move, that got people angry, other minor things were also a problem, but those aren't worthy mentioning here, like the visual of some characters being, from no other better words, cringe and the plot being "meh" sometimes.

    If they, from the start, were open and said what the series was supposed to be, without this bait and switch, people would not care much about it because it was not that bad

    Like, imagine seeling a ninja turtles series, but its just Master splinter? people will turn the nose regardless if its good or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Phayde View Post

    I was impressed by the animation, music and voice cast of the new MotU show, but the characterization of Teela completely ruined it for me, which is a shame because to quote Director Krennic, "We were on the verge of greatness, we were this close", but I think they dropped the ball with how they handled Teela, which then effected the rest of the series. I don't know that I'll watch the second half. For the record, Kevin Smith repeatedly said this MotU WAS made for the older fans.
    They indeed drop the ball with this one

    Maybe they will deliver he-man in the other half of the series, but this first one was just a nope.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-07-25 at 11:16 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The show is not titled "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe: Revelation".

    It's titled "Masters of the Universe: Revelation".

    He-man is literally not a headliner. In fact, his omission from the title seems pretty darned intentional.
    Considering Kevin Smith himself has on multiple occasions, including on streams over the last few days, called it He-man, and it was marketed with him as the staple character, it's easy to understand why people felt misled. And as others have said, was the writing of the other characters, Tesla in particular, at least on par with the 2002 reboot, I think it could have been forgiven.

    Also, I was going to reply about your earlier comment re: shows like He-man and Transformers being bad. Yeah, they are bad by today's standards, and we should expect a lot better quality in every aspect of shows that use the same characters and names. But those shows were still good for their time, I loved them as a kid and they were reruns by that point. And I agree about the Transformers movies, they were terrible, I seriously don't know who greenlit those Michael Bay movies but I hope they got canned. The dialogue and script writing alone was worse than George Lucas writing the Star Wars prequels.

  6. #66
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    No the real problem then like now is the problem of separation, have far too many younger people that don't stick with their own and older groups that do the same. So much that age to some people is irrelevant.

    The problem is it's not and I think some spaces respective ONLY tp certain ages needs to be established and maintained. Not EVERYTHING should include everyone all the time.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    This rampant nostalgia consumer machine is nothing more than the infantilization of adults to further the degradation of society and culture. People who buy into this rubbish are literally manchildren. Yea, it’s time to grow up and move on. But the idea of growing up bothers a frighteningly large amount of people, that I’m not surprised so many adults today unironically watch cartoons
    He says, posting on a fan page FOR VIDEO GAMES he plays.

  8. #68
    A lot of the backlash could have been avoided if they had have been upfront that it was a Teela show, not a He Man one. Not all, a core would always be pissed. The idea that people are being unreasonable for expecting a He Man show is just flawed. It was an obvious bait and switch. It doesn't make you a bigot if you take issue with such blatantly misleading marketing. And yes, of course, that also doesn't mean that no one having a go at the show is doing it for bigoted reasons, there will always be some who will freak if a woman even speaks more than 2 lines of dialogue, "FEMINAZIS ROOINED IT!".

    I also think they could have elevated Teela without doing what they do with He Man. Castlevania was an example of representation done well in my opinion. Trevor didn't need to be sidelined in order for Sypha to shine. They both worked well together, they were a great team who complimented each other well. You had a spectrum of characters, male, female, black, white, you had LGBT characters, gender atypical characters, none of it felt like box ticking, they were given enough screen time to generally feel fleshed out and served a purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinningOne View Post
    Speaking only for myself it's because they're havens from contemporary craziness. The 2016 Ghostbusters is a great example. When I first heard about it I thought it would be fun to relive those memories and maybe make some new ones. When I found out the cast had been changed to all women I worried it was going to be some kind of feminist message. Eventually, I read an interview by the director and he had such a chip on his shoulder about the patriarchy and male chauvinism it just turned me off to the movie so I never saw it.

    I've run into the same criticisms about JRR Tolkien's books and The Wheel of Time series Amazon may be producing. I found a news article talking about the progress of the series and the entire discussion thread under the article, literally hundreds of posts, was concerned about making sure each race was properly represented in the show. I find all of this tiresome. I need something to get a break from the angry self-righteousness which seems to saturate the current US dialogue and these old shows provide a way to do that.
    Funny because WoT is literally one of the most diverse fantasy series ever created, and realistically would be any modern day feminists wet dream because a large chunk of the narrative is about women and women are the power structure for the majority of the series until fairly late into it when things turn upside down. But women, much like the men in the books, are presented as flawed and falliable people, rather than 'look at me I'm strong and don't need no man' types that you see in literally all media these days. Hollywood has bastardized feminism so bad too, and constantly tries really hard to rip the feminine traits out of female characters, both in their personalities as well as their appearances.

    Case in point this He-man product. Literally if you remove the lipstick and hair from Teela, she looks exactly like a man. Her behavior is also painfully an attempt at being masculine too. Can women just not be feminine in any capacity anymore? I'm pretty sure people who liked her character originally are not at all impressed by how they've presented her now, because it's a total opposite.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Funny because WoT is literally one of the most diverse fantasy series ever created, and realistically would be any modern day feminists wet dream because a large chunk of the narrative is about women and women are the power structure for the majority of the series until fairly late into it when things turn upside down. But women, much like the men in the books, are presented as flawed and falliable people, rather than 'look at me I'm strong and don't need no man' types that you see in literally all media these days. Hollywood has bastardized feminism so bad too, and constantly tries really hard to rip the feminine traits out of female characters, both in their personalities as well as their appearances.

    Case in point this He-man product. Literally if you remove the lipstick and hair from Teela, she looks exactly like a man. Her behavior is also painfully an attempt at being masculine too. Can women just not be feminine in any capacity anymore? I'm pretty sure people who liked her character originally are not at all impressed by how they've presented her now, because it's a total opposite.
    Not really opposite. Teela was always a competent but headstrong soldier with a tendency for rash actions which seems in keeping with the new series, and MOTU Revelations is finally exploring two of the original series unresolved issues - how will Teela respond when she finds out all the people closest to her were keeping a major secret and when will she come into her powers as the daughter of the sorceress? Even the 2001 series was cancelled before it got to the bottom of these questions.

    My biggest issue with the series is the fact they've Benjamin Buttoned Prince Adam. Every other characters seems to have got a bit older while he's gone from adulthood to a teenager, more like the 2001 series than the original.

  11. #71
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    I'm not american so I don't understand this kevin smith drama, never liked him, he was the side-character in clerks who never uttered a word, he likes to wear hockey shirts. What has he done since the 90s up to this he-man business? I don't get it, why is this guy famous n why do netflix care about him??

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I liked it personally. I wasnt even aware there was even controversy over it until after I binged watched it... the blessing of not being on social media I guess. So, like most controversies I have no ides what people are complaining about but seeing who the star of the show is I can probably guess lol. which is why the show was called Masters of the Universe and not He-Man Masters of the Universe.

    and this is what the thread is about mainly, I do not understand why people are so angry and feel the need to be so toxic about a show they were so attached when they were younger? Why is this the hill people are wanting to die on? And this guy in the video calling it a disaster? Why because he didn't like it? These manchild tubers need to grow up a bit and learn to enjoy things, make some positive videos about what he likes instead to trying to be Quartering guy #3123

    this guy makes videos about being angry about the most mundane things... Its so much effort and energy.
    when you have an entire cottage industry around goading angry nerds nothing is too much of an effort... unless it's to get out of the basement long enough to not pee in the corner. I thought the new show was fine as well, but hey to each their own.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I'm not american so I don't understand this kevin smith drama, never liked him, he was the side-character in clerks who never uttered a word, he likes to wear hockey shirts. What has he done since the 90s up to this he-man business? I don't get it, why is this guy famous n why do netflix care about him??
    He wasn't just a side character, he wrote and directed Clerks as well as a host of other loosely connected films and some other movies of varied success. He's a longtime pop culture commentator with various articles, books, blogs and podcasts to his name and has written for DC and Marvel several times.

  14. #74
    He also wrote and directed one of the best religious lampoons ever, in Dogma. Still my favorite movie of his.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    He also wrote and directed one of the best religious lampoons ever, in Dogma. Still my favorite movie of his.
    And then he went and protested his own movie for being anti-Christian. Absolute legend round these parts.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I'm not american so I don't understand this kevin smith drama, never liked him, he was the side-character in clerks who never uttered a word, he likes to wear hockey shirts. What has he done since the 90s up to this he-man business? I don't get it, why is this guy famous n why do netflix care about him??
    He's a name, that's about it. Netflix likes to tie well known names to bigger franchises because they think it'll give them clout. Ultimately Netflix doesn't care at all about the show or Kevin Smith, and he's the fall guy if people dislike the show because he produced it.

    My issue is that there's clearly been no oversight for a lot of shows on Netflix recently insofar as ensuring quality and being able to capture the largest audience possible. You'd think someone in their management would be familiar with the series and stepped in and told them to change it. Unfortunately this show has damaged any good will from the old fans and Mattel has basically fucked the toy line because literally the first set of toys are all of characters that get offed in the first five episodes. People were dunking on them on Twitter because of it, so it's clear that the fans are at least annoyed. And the license is expiring for Mattel so the IP rights will go back to Paramount soon which means this could all just be a wasted effort for a cash grab attempt that will ultimately fail.

  17. #77
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    He's a name, that's about it. Netflix likes to tie well known names to bigger franchises because they think it'll give them clout. Ultimately Netflix doesn't care at all about the show or Kevin Smith, and he's the fall guy if people dislike the show because he produced it.

    My issue is that there's clearly been no oversight for a lot of shows on Netflix recently insofar as ensuring quality and being able to capture the largest audience possible. You'd think someone in their management would be familiar with the series and stepped in and told them to change it.
    Nah. The show's better than it has any reason to be.

    Unfortunately this show has damaged any good will from the old fans and Mattel has basically fucked the toy line because literally the first set of toys are all of characters that get offed in the first five episodes.
    It's 4 toys; Moss-man, He-man, Skeletor, and Evil Lyn. Of those, at the end of Episode 5, only Moss-Man is dead. And given that two had been dead and came back to life, "dead" is clearly not a permanent state.

    It's also Episode 5 of 10. The show's only half over.

    People were dunking on them on Twitter because of it, so it's clear that the fans are at least annoyed.
    Stop acting like you speak for "the fans". Plenty of us fans enjoyed this.


  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    I'm not american so I don't understand this kevin smith drama, never liked him, he was the side-character in clerks who never uttered a word, he likes to wear hockey shirts. What has he done since the 90s up to this he-man business? I don't get it, why is this guy famous n why do netflix care about him??
    Kevin Smith reached out across the internet and shamed me into not wearing white shirts.


    FULL DISCLOSURE: I haven’t watched the new He-man because I didn’t like it much when I was a kid. Nostalgia’s over-rated. Is it funnier than MODOK?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Kevin Smith reached out across the internet and shamed me into not wearing white shirts.


    FULL DISCLOSURE: I haven’t watched the new He-man because I didn’t like it much when I was a kid. Nostalgia’s over-rated. Is it funnier than MODOK?
    Inb4 someone cries about how Kevin Smith would be cancelled if he said this today and how that's an indictment of how far cancel culture has come.

  20. #80
    It's not gatekeeping so much as fatigue from the entertainment industry being creatively bankrupt. When you have an active fanbase for something who wins by remaking it into something different? Make a new franchise instead of shitting on the ones we grew up with.

    Edit: I'm not specifically talking about he-man here - that was fine other than the ham-fisted writing for teelah in ep 1.
    Last edited by oplawlz; 2021-07-26 at 07:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

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