Dose Our Generation Have a Nostalgia Gatekeeping Problem?

[Endus]

Pretty sure the real reason people were upset about this show was that Kevin Smith said he was a He-Man super fan and that the show would be "literally all about He-Man". Both being a total lie. I guess if you went to watch it thinking you were going to get a slap in the face of nostalgia you would be feeling pretty honked off by what they got.

He-Man the character, or He-Man the show?

Pretty sure Smith meant the latter, and the show fits the bill. It's also only half finished, and Adam was only dead for a few episodes in there.

I went to watch it looking to get a gutpunch of nostalgia, and that's exactly what I got. Speaking as a kid who grew up owning the Castle Greyskull playset and shit. So kindly stop pretending you "speak for the real fans". You speak for yourself. That's it.

[Polyxo]

As a filthy casual that likes to wander into fandoms all willy nilly, I inspire mountains of rage. Being a girl occasionally also exacerbates it, I've found.

[Deadite]

He-Man the character, or He-Man the show?

Pretty sure Smith meant the latter, and the show fits the bill. It's also only half finished, and Adam was only dead for a few episodes in there.

I went to watch it looking to get a gutpunch of nostalgia, and that's exactly what I got. Speaking as a kid who grew up owning the Castle Greyskull playset and shit. So kindly stop pretending you "speak for the real fans". You speak for yourself. That's it.

Well i would have to start pretending to speak for the real fans since i never started. Pretty funny since you seem to be speaking for Smith. The tweet i read was..

"I’ve read every @mastersOfficial script for our shows (plus wrote a few) and viewed 4 amazing animatics. While Teela is as present as she’s always been in the MotU adventures and she plays a big role, our series is LITERALLY all about He-Man.

Can that really be interpreted as speaking about the show and not the character? I have only seen to first 2 so far so cheers for the spoilers.

[Endus]

Well i would have to start pretending to speak for the real fans since i never started.

You opened with;

Pretty sure the real reason people were upset about this show

Which is exactly that.

Pretty funny since you seem to be speaking for Smith. The tweet i read was..

"I’ve read every @mastersOfficial script for our shows (plus wrote a few) and viewed 4 amazing animatics. While Teela is as present as she’s always been in the MotU adventures and she plays a big role, our series is LITERALLY all about He-Man.

Can that really be interpreted as speaking about the show and not the character?

We've only got the first 5 episodes, of a 10-episode arc. And those episodes are very much about He-Man, even if they don't star He-Man or Adam as the primary protagonist.

I have only seen to first 2 so far so cheers for the spoilers.

So you don't know what happens in the show but still wanted to express your negative opinion?

Also;

9. Spoilers If you have information from say a book (Or any other source) a movie or TV show is being adapted from you need to use spoiler tags. Same thing if you have found reliable leaks online. Do not ruin other's excitement when we have a system in place to deal with this. Otherwise spoiler tags are not required, regardless of how a topic is titled. You should be able to discuss the most recent events that have aired or been released without needing to use spoiler tags. If you want to discuss spoilers, use the tags.

Emphasis mine. If you're posting in this subforum, spoilers are expected. The only time spoiler tags are expected are if you're pulling info from some different source material, like spoiling the ending of Harry Potter to people before the final film came out.

[Syegfryed]

Well i would have to start pretending to speak for the real fans since i never started. Pretty funny since you seem to be speaking for Smith. The tweet i read was..

Like before, he create this narrative too, that people are angry about the series because adam is not buff like he-man, when nobody rly gave a darn about it.

"I’ve read every @mastersOfficial script for our shows (plus wrote a few) and viewed 4 amazing animatics. While Teela is as present as she’s always been in the MotU adventures and she plays a big role, our series is LITERALLY all about He-Man.

Can that really be interpreted as speaking about the show and not the character? I have only seen to first 2 so far so cheers for the spoilers.

https://twitter.com/ThatKevinSmith/s...67602025426945

Apparently, he deleted it, i wonder why

[Deadite]

You opened with;

Which is exactly that.

So you don't know what happens in the show but still wanted to express your negative opinion?

Also;


Emphasis mine. If you're posting in this subforum, spoilers are expected. The only time spoiler tags are expected are if you're pulling info from some different source material, like spoiling the ending of Harry Potter to people before the final film came out.

How is saying that some people may be upset with the lack of He-man due to Smith talking a load of old bollocks mean i am talking for all real fans? Could you also point out my negative opinions? I have not given my opinion on the show. Offering a reason why some people may not like it doesn't mean i share it.

I thought the first episode was mostly pretty good. Second one was a bit meh.

[Dhrizzle]

As a filthy casual that likes to wander into fandoms all willy nilly, I inspire mountains of rage. Being a girl occasionally also exacerbates it, I've found.

I'm sorry if you can't provide me with ID proving you are old enough to have seen the original series when shown, and photographic evidence that you owned He-Man, Skeletor and at least one other action figure you can't have an opinion on this matter.

[Rennadrel]

As a filthy casual that likes to wander into fandoms all willy nilly, I inspire mountains of rage. Being a girl occasionally also exacerbates it, I've found.

Funnily enough, He-man was one of the shows that was popular among females in the 80's. Same with shows like Voltron and She-Ra. If anything, He-man and She-Ra both demonstrated that shows could cater well to both demographics without any issues because the characters and dialogue worked. A lot of media these days is a shell of what it should be, especially female characters being presented with toxic masculinity traits, like Teela is in this He-man reboot. Which is hilarious in its own right.

Apparently most of the writers these days have never actually watched shows that had real strong female characters, because they sure as heck aren't presented with the same behavioral patterns that Teela (and several other female characters in rebooted IP's recently) have projected.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm happy that all the gatekeeping kiddies are having a big sad right now. One of their bugbears, whom they had recently been rumoring was going to be fired, just had their contract to produce Star Trek extended for another five years: Alex Kurtzman Signs New Deal With CBS, Extending Relationship Through 2026

All those people that whine about crying in Star Trek are now crying in their Wheaties

Obviously they are making some modicum of money off it otherwise they would have sent Kurtzman packing. Picard is alright from what I've seen of it, and the films were alright but Discovery and The Lower Decks I haven't gotten into.

[Egomaniac]

I have only seen to first 2 so far so cheers for the spoilers.

If you go into a discussion about a series and you aren't up-to-date with all the episodes...any "spoilers" you get are on you.

[Stormspark]

The problem is that modern day creators think being "subversive" makes them geniuses. That's why the whole "subverting expectations" thing has become a meme.

People don't want things they loved "subverted" and it's not clever or deep, it's actually completely hacky. Anybody can destroy.

There is a way to subvert expectations, while still telling a great story. It's just...most of the "creators" today are no talent hacks that have no idea how to do this. They couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag, so they think "all I have to do is do something unexpected and it makes me a genius!"

Funnily enough, He-man was one of the shows that was popular among females in the 80's. Same with shows like Voltron and She-Ra. If anything, He-man and She-Ra both demonstrated that shows could cater well to both demographics without any issues because the characters and dialogue worked. A lot of media these days is a shell of what it should be, especially female characters being presented with toxic masculinity traits, like Teela is in this He-man reboot. Which is hilarious in its own right.

Apparently most of the writers these days have never actually watched shows that had real strong female characters, because they sure as heck aren't presented with the same behavioral patterns that Teela (and several other female characters in rebooted IP's recently) have projected.

Yeah it sucks when things like this happen. Today "strong female characters" have to be Mary Sue's with no personality, that are automatically experts at everything they do and are loved by everyone. There's no character, and no growth. I love *actual* strong female characters, which we don't really get much of these days, at all. In fact, I would say, most of my favorite heroes are female.

[Endus]

There is a way to subvert expectations, while still telling a great story. It's just...most of the "creators" today are no talent hacks that have no idea how to do this. They couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag, so they think "all I have to do is do something unexpected and it makes me a genius!"


Yeah it sucks when things like this happen. Today "strong female characters" have to be Mary Sue's with no personality, that are automatically experts at everything they do and are loved by everyone. There's no character, and no growth. I love *actual* strong female characters, which we don't really get much of these days, at all. In fact, I would say, most of my favorite heroes are female.

So the complaint about He-Man is that Teela makes bad choices but she's a Mary Sue who never makes mistakes or faces consequences, and you think the original Teela in the original He-Man wasn't a Mary Sue, or that Adam/He-Man more specifically wasn't a Gary Stu?

That She-Ra wasn't a Mary Sue?

This is a recurring theme, frankly. Writers add nuance and personality to old characters, giving them flaws, and fans react badly, and start tossing around "Mary-Sue!" when what's happening is that the new character isn't the same Mary Sue they always used to be.

[Santti]

There is a way to subvert expectations, while still telling a great story. It's just...most of the "creators" today are no talent hacks that have no idea how to do this. They couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag, so they think "all I have to do is do something unexpected and it makes me a genius!"

Ahh, Kreia. I member. Shame Kotor2 was rather heavily cut, and had a lot of stuff dropped out of it, that was originally supposed to be there. I think some people modded the cut content in, though.

You know what, I'll go check and play Kotor right meow.

You meatbag.

[Rennadrel]

There is a way to subvert expectations, while still telling a great story. It's just...most of the "creators" today are no talent hacks that have no idea how to do this. They couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag, so they think "all I have to do is do something unexpected and it makes me a genius!"




Yeah it sucks when things like this happen. Today "strong female characters" have to be Mary Sue's with no personality, that are automatically experts at everything they do and are loved by everyone. There's no character, and no growth. I love *actual* strong female characters, which we don't really get much of these days, at all. In fact, I would say, most of my favorite heroes are female.

If you want to see the pinnacle of badass women, it was Pam Grier at the height of her career. She was great, and the writing was too even if it was campy at times. Because she exuded confidence but still had flaws and weaknesses, because those are what make characters believable.

Considering Teela is literally written as a self-centered, arrogant and spiteful woman who exudes all the characteristics that fall under toxic masculinity, you shave her head and ditch the makeup and she's a man with tits. I'm unsure why these idiots think writing a female character in a way that they so blatantly hate in men is good, because it's neither feminine nor original. And it certainly doesn't make them strong.

[unfilteredJW]

If you want to see the pinnacle of badass women, it was Pam Grier at the height of her career. She was great, and the writing was too even if it was campy at times. Because she exuded confidence but still had flaws and weaknesses, because those are what make characters believable.

Considering Teela is literally written as a self-centered, arrogant and spiteful woman who exudes all the characteristics that fall under toxic masculinity, you shave her head and ditch the makeup and she's a man with tits. I'm unsure why these idiots think writing a female character in a way that they so blatantly hate in men is good, because it's neither feminine nor original. And it certainly doesn't make them strong.

Big fucking yikes.

[Orby]

I see a lot of the current man-children are now crying about that 'I Am Not Starfire Comic'. Another example of gatekeeping ones nostalgia because something new and different is not what they are familiar with. Once again personally I do not give a shit about this comic, I do not care it looks like crap and it most certainly isn't for me, and to me that's okay, so I am going to instead move to something that does. But these man-children feel so entitled, why are these people crying about a comic they are never going to buy... what is up with these people? Instead of crying about something you could be enjoying something instead. Or are these people so devoid of fun that to like something is hard.

And I hear you asking why are you watching these videos if you hate them so much.... Because no matter how many times I block them on Youtube the algorithm thinks because I watch alot of book tubers, movie reviewers and comic reviewers they think I need to look at the toxic stuff too... Fix your damn shit YouTube lol

[Stormspark]

So the complaint about He-Man is that Teela makes bad choices but she's a Mary Sue who never makes mistakes or faces consequences, and you think the original Teela in the original He-Man wasn't a Mary Sue, or that Adam/He-Man more specifically wasn't a Gary Stu?

That She-Ra wasn't a Mary Sue?

This is a recurring theme, frankly. Writers add nuance and personality to old characters, giving them flaws, and fans react badly, and start tossing around "Mary-Sue!" when what's happening is that the new character isn't the same Mary Sue they always used to be.

I was speaking generally, not about He-Man. Honestly, I found the original He-Man pretty boring and repetitive. Watched it a few times as a kid, none of it stuck with me, I can't even remember the story today. It was one of those stories you just weren't supposed to think much about I guess. As far as the new He-Man, I haven't seen it.

Mary Sue's have always been a thing, but they have been getting worse lately.

[s_bushido]

Mary Sue's have always been a thing, but they have been getting worse lately.

Have they been getting worse? Or are people simply more likely to sling the label around?

[Endus]

Have they been getting worse? Or are people simply more likely to sling the label around?

People don't even know what the term means. I've seen people argue a protagonist is a Mary Sue because "everything works out for them in the end"; their mistakes get world through and dealt with by the end of the story. That's "this isn't a tragedy", not evidence for Mary Sue-ness.

[Skayth]

I loved the new she-ra, hated the new he-man.

I liked the force awakens (even if it was a rehash of episode 4) but hated the other 2.

I liked robocop and the robocop remake (oof)

But look at it.... why are we remaking what was loved by another and just not making something new?

Well they are fully expecting the old fan base to come back and watch it... otherwise why bother. For he-man, I completely understand the backlash to it. I absolutely hated how Teela fucked off in the first episode thinking everything was about her. Legit, that is what a kid thinks. The world revolves around u. (Here it does cause plot armor)

I dont mind rehashes that try to make things new, but if ur going to fully try and divide the fanbase, ur gonna get a huge backlash from the people that hate complete destruction of what they held. (Luke for me, disney)

Then, they fully expect sales on toys and stuff. Well kids hardly play with such toys nowadays, and would rather have a tablet or a more amazing smartphone. The ones that do, congrats ur one for the few kids that bought it. Though stormtroopers are great for all the kiddos. The toys and collectibles sales are mainly for the older generation at that point.

It's like how I see gundam seed is a garbage clone of gundam 0079. Oh lots of kids loved seed, but then They realized Kira is god Yamato by the end with how thicc his plot was.

(Oh and I hated the original he-man as well)

[Rennadrel]

I loved the new she-ra, hated the new he-man.

I liked the force awakens (even if it was a rehash of episode 4) but hated the other 2.

I liked robocop and the robocop remake (oof)

But look at it.... why are we remaking what was loved by another and just not making something new?

Well they are fully expecting the old fan base to come back and watch it... otherwise why bother. For he-man, I completely understand the backlash to it. I absolutely hated how Teela fucked off in the first episode thinking everything was about her. Legit, that is what a kid thinks. The world revolves around u. (Here it does cause plot armor)

I dont mind rehashes that try to make things new, but if ur going to fully try and divide the fanbase, ur gonna get a huge backlash from the people that hate complete destruction of what they held. (Luke for me, disney)

Then, they fully expect sales on toys and stuff. Well kids hardly play with such toys nowadays, and would rather have a tablet or a more amazing smartphone. The ones that do, congrats ur one for the few kids that bought it. Though stormtroopers are great for all the kiddos. The toys and collectibles sales are mainly for the older generation at that point.

It's like how I see gundam seed is a garbage clone of gundam 0079. Oh lots of kids loved seed, but then They realized Kira is god Yamato by the end with how thicc his plot was.

(Oh and I hated the original he-man as well)

Hollywood is so creatively bankrupt and the stupid plebs keep dishing out money for mediocre shows and films, rehashes and constant more of the same attempts at playing on nostalgia just with even worse implementation. That's not even getting into the nonsense Netflix has been pushing the last couple of years like the pedo bait film they were promoting.