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  1. #1

    Underrated antagonists

    Among the many and diverse antagonists or villains that Warcraft games, World of Warcraft and its expansions and the many spin-offs of the franchise, who do you think is frequently underestimated and wasn't or isn't exploited enough by the writers of the franchise ?

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Perry Gatner comes to mind first. He was my favourite TBC villain, would love to see more of him in the future.

  3. #3
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Among the many and diverse antagonists or villains that Warcraft games, World of Warcraft and its expansions and the many spin-offs of the franchise, who do you think is frequently underestimated and wasn't or isn't exploited enough by the writers of the franchise ?
    Azshara, easily. She's been being referred to since the beginning of the game, but all she got is brief cameo in Legion and a single patch in 8.2... Poor fish lady deserves something better.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  4. #4
    Hogger. His arrest and reappearance in the stockades is satisfying but he could easily have escaped again and become a recurring antagonist throughout the game.

  5. #5
    Underrated amongst the community, Gul'dan definitely.
    He's rotten to the core, his only ambition was power, there was no redeeming qualities to him. His voice acting coupled with the lines he was given in WoD were great, he actually felt like a threat looming in the distance.

  6. #6
    I would have to say Lei Shen, the Thunder King. He was pretty hyped as the Mogus greatest emperor, who was basically Gengis Khan, who only died when he went to war in Uldum and the Tolvir had no choice but to activate the Origination Device to stop his army.

    And then we swedged him in a single patch as the last raid boss of a very good Throne of Thunder raid.

    Honestly, the entire expansion should have been about him. I think it would have been a much better end than Seige of Orgimmar

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    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Murmur. He was meant to be a barely contained Cosmic Being that was literally a destroyer of Worlds. Simply getting momentarily summoned to Auchindon levelled/Destroyed the entire area in Outland.

    Variously described as a "cosmic being", "extra-planar being", "warp-beast", or "the essence of sound", Murmur is an otherworldly elemental creature from a distant corner of the universe. According to the Codex of Blood, Murmur was born long ago in a dimension of the cosmos unfathomable to mortal minds. It was so powerful that its entrance into existence shattered all reality around it. Mindless and existing only for chaos, its barest whisper was enough to destroy entire worlds.
    Last edited by Super Kami Dende; 2021-07-25 at 05:29 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyviroth View Post
    I would have to say Lei Shen, the Thunder King. He was pretty hyped as the Mogus greatest emperor, who was basically Gengis Khan, who only died when he went to war in Uldum and the Tolvir had no choice but to activate the Origination Device to stop his army.

    And then we swedged him in a single patch as the last raid boss of a very good Throne of Thunder raid.

    Honestly, the entire expansion should have been about him. I think it would have been a much better end than Seige of Orgimmar
    I agree he was a really awesome and badass character, and learning about his past in Chronicles only made me wish that he was the main antagonist of MoP and not Garrosh.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyviroth View Post
    I would have to say Lei Shen, the Thunder King. He was pretty hyped as the Mogus greatest emperor, who was basically Gengis Khan, who only died when he went to war in Uldum and the Tolvir had no choice but to activate the Origination Device to stop his army.

    And then we swedged him in a single patch as the last raid boss of a very good Throne of Thunder raid.

    Honestly, the entire expansion should have been about him. I think it would have been a much better end than Seige of Orgimmar
    Agreed fully. The guy was presented as half Genghis Khan and half Qui Shi Huangdi, a Wild God-beating asskicker and tyrant with very little equal in Azeroth's history, but he gets whooped in the patch that truly introduces him. Great raid for sure, but still a huge loss of potential.

    Yeah, fuck Nazi Orcs. Mists should have been about the rise of the Thunder King. I'd make the 5.2 raid a vault of his, instead of the throne, ending with Ra-den as the final boss without us fighting Lei Shen proper. 5.3 is where we deal with Garrosh, but not at all in the way it happens, rather that Horde settles the civil war without it taking over the entire narrative (via Mak'gora, perhaps, I dunno). Then 5.4 is the defense of Pandaria from Lei Shen's final assault of Mogu and co-opted Sha forces after he absorbs the Heart of Yshaarj that Garrosh previously uncovered without using. We snatch victory from the jaws of defeat as always, both factions are utterly exhausted by the effort and forced to declare a white peace, the Heart is destroyed, and bonus point there's no segway possible to WoD and thus no need to suffer that shit expansion.

    Ok I kinda got carried away there but one gets the point. I dunno if I'd even kill Lei Shen at the end of Mists, I think there's good arguments both ways, but having him tale up more narrative presence than Crazy Warchief v1.0 would only have improved the storyline.
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  10. #10
    Edwin VanCleef comes to mind first.
    I'd love to see him try siege Stormwind

    Lei Shen really deserved more

    Jailer could have been teased earlier and could have much better story. at least we could have some memories about him from random sources

    Theradras, earth princess ignited more interest after her talk with cho'gal during pre-cata patch
    AU cho'gal
    also MU cho'gal. we never saw ending of Westfall, Feralas storylines

    Colonel Kurzen - I'd love to see his story unfolded better.

    while some guys mentioned here had small stories,they were mostly done pretty good but left me wishng for more

  11. #11
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Among the many and diverse antagonists or villains that Warcraft games, World of Warcraft and its expansions and the many spin-offs of the franchise, who do you think is frequently underestimated and wasn't or isn't exploited enough by the writers of the franchise ?
    The Venture Co is the most underrated threat I believe.
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  12. #12
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    Underrated amongst the community, Gul'dan definitely.
    He's rotten to the core, his only ambition was power, there was no redeeming qualities to him. His voice acting coupled with the lines he was given in WoD were great, he actually felt like a threat looming in the distance.
    that was before blizz shit on his origin and made him victim of bullying
    u talk pre-WoD bullshit crap
    I loved pre-wod version too, he is pure evil for just being evil, no reason, he is evil incarnate for real, he isn't evil because he got treated badly, never saw hope in good (like the fuck they did to KJ), or because corruption of old gods or anything, in fact he was 2nd best shaman, revered and respected, he is evil because he IS pure evil
    But blizz fucked this up and made him a depressed emo who just got treated badly and wants revenge

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterjc View Post
    Edwin VanCleef comes to mind first.
    he needs to be a villain in first place
    yeah defias went extreme, but their cause is actually right and they were oppressed horribly, well alliance chew more than they can bite and he retaliated hard
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  13. #13
    Dreadlord Ilyiana's Avatar
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    azshara azshara azshara. always. she deserved that south seas expansion where she starred.

    other antagonists that come to mind are magatha mf grimtotem, who was consistently a bad bitch and a great schemer. the klaxxi, gul'dan (i know he had a ton of shit he starred in, but somehow still underrated, that man crushed it). i also really liked lei shen, who starred in a raid, but couldve done more too. lastly, i think sinestra.
    Professional glass cannon since 2004.

  14. #14
    Garrosh, Gul'dan and Zul'jin - all with burning anger in their hearts.
    I'm tempted to apply for a moderator position, just so i can go moderator on your asses.

  15. #15
    Warchief Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Azshara, easily. She's been being referred to since the beginning of the game, but all she got is brief cameo in Legion and a single patch in 8.2... Poor fish lady deserves something better.
    Why does she deserve better? It's something I've never understood, she's a character whose whole history has been well within the role as being a pawn, has very few actual accomplishments to call her own, and seems to have just had a hype-man saying she's great for a decade while sorta just being a big tentacle mommy.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  16. #16
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    has very few actual accomplishments to call her own
    Isn't that the case with most WoW villains though? The only ones who actually managed to do something were Arthas/Ner'zhul and the Legion. And in both cases, their greatest accomplishments took place mostly in WC3 (I won't go with Sylvanas since her story is an utter trainwreck).

    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    and seems to have just had a hype-man saying she's great for a decade while sorta just being a big tentacle mommy.
    That's kind of my point. She's been so hyped that when she finally showed up, I was really expecting a bigger role for her, instead of being a generic mid xpac boss.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The Venture Co is the most underrated threat I believe.
    I can see Gazlowe taking control of them since Razdunk is dead. I have pretty high hopes they'll return.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    that was before blizz shit on his origin and made him victim of bullying
    u talk pre-WoD bullshit crap
    I loved pre-wod version too, he is pure evil for just being evil, no reason, he is evil incarnate for real, he isn't evil because he got treated badly, never saw hope in good (like the fuck they did to KJ), or because corruption of old gods or anything, in fact he was 2nd best shaman, revered and respected, he is evil because he IS pure evil
    But blizz fucked this up and made him a depressed emo who just got treated badly and wants revenge
    Yeah,it's good to have bad guys with a tragic backstory and #relatable motives... But sometimes it's nice to also have a villain who's actually just a piece of shit.

    Gul'dan enjoyed killing,controlling and generally having power over others. It's what made him into one of the most powerful and influential orcs to ever live,it's what made him so important for the Legion's plan,and it's eventually what got him killed when he tried to fuck over the Legion because he wanted even more for himself. It's a simple character design and a relatively simple story,but it's one that works very well

  19. #19
    Van Cleef's:
    They are probably the best bad guys in the game who didn't get their own raid tier. I could imagine a classic+ raid tier where the Horde agree to assist the Defias Brotherhood in sieging Stormwind and the raid would be a Classic version of BFD. You could even add a lvl 60 version of Stockades for the Horde where the plan is to break in and create a riot to draw SW guard's attention for the main Raid, requiring adventurers on the Alliance to pick up where the guard's are not available to defend SW from the Defias assault.

  20. #20
    I'll say Tichondrius in Legion.
    He was pretty cool in WC3. Calm, collected, and calculating. Leader of the dreadlords (pre-shadowlands retcon). So they bring back the leader of the dreadlords in Legion and he's just a throwaway raid boss that could have been any other random demon and you wouldn't have noticed. They didn't do anything with him. Seems like quite the waste.

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